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[DEFEATED] Condemn Lily

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Connotar
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Founded: Nov 29, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Connotar » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:14 am

Outer Sparta wrote:
Connotar wrote:It could be badly written, but it's what the resolution is commending/condemning/liberating. It could be a poorly written anything about an invader region, but
1. It got past GenSec
2. And it made a point about how these regions do not "spread interregional peace and goodwill"

The thing is, this resolution did a very poor job at persuading its case of why we should vote to condemn Lily. Many people believe Lily should be condemned, but the resolution itself must be well-written to reflect their accomplishments.

I guess you have a point. Maybe I'll write it if this one doesn't pass

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Forn Treixo
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Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Forn Treixo » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:15 am

this is within the rules of the game you guys have to git gud and stop whining

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Jedinsto
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Founded: Nov 12, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Jedinsto » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:15 am

Connotar wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Let's say a terrible resolution condemning a raiding organization like TBH that is full of mistakes somehow makes it to a vote and we vote against because it's a terribly-written resolution. Do we "support raiding" by your logic or do we think that it's badly written?

It could be badly written, but it's what the resolution is commending/condemning/liberating. It could be a poorly written anything about an invader region, but
1. It got past GenSec
2. And it made a point about how these regions do not "spread interregional peace and goodwill"

The point of a resolution preamble is to make good arguments to support the idea, so when those arguments are awfully construed, the proposal fails. Imagine you're on jury duty, and you personally believe the defendant should be convicted based on prior knowledge. But then, the prosecution's argument is "he's guilty because I said so." Obviously, extremely hypothetical, but how would that look if you voted to convict? The prosecution can just declare the defendant guilty? That's a terrible precedent. It's a very similar situation here, in that letting this pass would be to allow literally anything to pass as long as you somewhat agree with the policy.
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Jedinsto
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Founded: Nov 12, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Jedinsto » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:17 am

Forn Treixo wrote:this is within the rules of the game you guys have to git gud and stop whining

Oh, so just because something's allowed means we shouldn't stand up for our beliefs and debate in a democratic process?
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Westarctic
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Founded: Sep 12, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Westarctic » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:17 am

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Westarctic wrote:Lol, ok, cry more

Doubling down doesn't do you any favors.

Ok lol.
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Outer Sparta
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Founded: Dec 26, 2014
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Postby Outer Sparta » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:25 am

Jedinsto wrote:
Connotar wrote:It could be badly written, but it's what the resolution is commending/condemning/liberating. It could be a poorly written anything about an invader region, but
1. It got past GenSec
2. And it made a point about how these regions do not "spread interregional peace and goodwill"

The point of a resolution preamble is to make good arguments to support the idea, so when those arguments are awfully construed, the proposal fails. Imagine you're on jury duty, and you personally believe the defendant should be convicted based on prior knowledge. But then, the prosecution's argument is "he's guilty because I said so." Obviously, extremely hypothetical, but how would that look if you voted to convict? The prosecution can just declare the defendant guilty? That's a terrible precedent. It's a very similar situation here, in that letting this pass would be to allow literally anything to pass as long as you somewhat agree with the policy.

There have been many previous failed proposals to condemn Lily and many other abandoned drafts on the forums.
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:50 pm

Counter-Point: We should commend Lily for beautifying dead regions. They really are the cheerful gardeners of NSGP. They also encourage raider-fenda solidarity which is very wholesome.
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Sorianora
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Postby Sorianora » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:59 pm

Fahran wrote:Counter-Point: We should commend Lily for beautifying dead regions. They really are the cheerful gardeners of NSGP. They also encourage raider-fenda solidarity which is very wholesome.

Haha yes! :clap:
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:07 pm

Fahran wrote:Counter-Point: We should commend Lily for beautifying dead regions. They really are the cheerful gardeners of NSGP. They also encourage raider-fenda solidarity which is very wholesome.

What types of lilies do they beautify other regions with?
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:13 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:
Fahran wrote:Counter-Point: We should commend Lily for beautifying dead regions. They really are the cheerful gardeners of NSGP. They also encourage raider-fenda solidarity which is very wholesome.

What types of lilies do they beautify other regions with?

They have a sizable variety. It's why the regions are so colorful.
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Dollystana
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Founded: Aug 31, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Dollystana » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:28 pm

Good idea for a resolution if it was well-written, unfortunately it isn't. I am for condemning Lily, but I just want a better author to do it.
Last edited by Dollystana on Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:30 pm

Dollystana wrote:Good idea for a resolution if it was well-written, unfortunately it isn't. I am for condemning Lily, but I just want a better author to do it.

The grammatical mistakes coupled with the lack of research bogs it down entirely. Bandwagoning is also a factor with Lily's recent raids on The Embassy.
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Scalizagasti
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Founded: Jun 15, 2019
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Postby Scalizagasti » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:52 pm

The United Regions Alliance recommends that nations vote against this resolution. During internal voting, 2 regions voted in favour of the resolution, 8 voted against, and 2 abstained. For more detailed reasonings, see the dispatch below.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1510307
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Smolcasm
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Founded: Sep 18, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Smolcasm » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:00 pm

Why is the Security Council wasting time on this? Securing The Embassy would be far more practical.

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True Mayhem
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Founded: Feb 23, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby True Mayhem » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:03 pm

Smolcasm wrote:Why is the Security Council wasting time on this? Securing The Embassy would be far more practical.

Hasn't the Embassy already been liberated and isn't it already back under control?
Correct me if I'm wrong or if I misread your post. Beyond that, I don't think it's really under the Security Council's control.

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Outer Sparta
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Founded: Dec 26, 2014
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Postby Outer Sparta » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:06 pm

True Mayhem wrote:
Smolcasm wrote:Why is the Security Council wasting time on this? Securing The Embassy would be far more practical.

Hasn't the Embassy already been liberated and isn't it already back under control?
Correct me if I'm wrong or if I misread your post. Beyond that, I don't think it's really under the Security Council's control.

It is already liberated, but once the region is secured under native control, then the liberation can be repealed.
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True Mayhem
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Founded: Feb 23, 2021
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Postby True Mayhem » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:11 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:
True Mayhem wrote:Hasn't the Embassy already been liberated and isn't it already back under control?
Correct me if I'm wrong or if I misread your post. Beyond that, I don't think it's really under the Security Council's control.

It is already liberated, but once the region is secured under native control, then the liberation can be repealed.

Fair. Regardless, I do agree that this proposal is a colossal waste of time, as is the case with most SC Proposals.

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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:12 pm

True Mayhem wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:It is already liberated, but once the region is secured under native control, then the liberation can be repealed.

Fair. Regardless, I do agree that this proposal is a colossal waste of time, as is the case with most SC Proposals.

Especially considering how poorly-written this one was. No wonder it's getting crushed at vote.
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Sedgistan
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Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:30 am

Westarctic wrote:Whatever

Westarctic wrote:Lol, ok, cry more

Westarctic wrote:Ok lol.

You're just spamming the thread now. *** 1 day forumban *** Do not post past ban with other nations, or both will be deleted.

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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:48 pm

True Mayhem wrote:
Smolcasm wrote:Why is the Security Council wasting time on this? Securing The Embassy would be far more practical.

Hasn't the Embassy already been liberated and isn't it already back under control?
Correct me if I'm wrong or if I misread your post. Beyond that, I don't think it's really under the Security Council's control.

They want to repeal the resolution liberating The Embassy so that the fendas can move out without fear of it falling to raiders once again.
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Tinhampton
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Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:07 pm

"Condemn Lily" was defeated 11,935 votes to 3,268.

A relatively incredible 21.5% FOR.
Last edited by Tinhampton on Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:16 am

Tinhampton wrote:
"Condemn Lily" was defeated 11,935 votes to 3,268.

A relatively incredible 21.5% FOR.

Still quite a bit of bandwagoning from a good number of individual nations, but the big delegates didn't fall for it.
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Frenchy II
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Postby Frenchy II » Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:25 am

Happy to see this one fail.
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Fahran
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Postby Fahran » Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:05 pm

Frenchy II wrote:Happy to see this one fail.

I'll author "Commend Lily" in a couple months. :^)

Because there's clearly no conflict of interest there.
Last edited by Fahran on Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:13 pm

Frenchy II wrote:Happy to see this one fail.

Most of us were.
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