[PASSED] Repeal "On Abortion"

[Heavens Reach]

Support on the premise of scrubbing the clause that codifies unethical medical praxis alone.

"Unethical medical praxis?"

Refusing requested treatment when it is indicated, regardless of your personal convictions as a doctor, is unethical medical praxis.

[Daarwyrth]

"Unethical medical praxis?"

Refusing requested treatment when it is indicated, regardless of your personal convictions as a doctor, is unethical medical praxis.

Vyn Nysen: "Ah, on that current. I agree that doctors should not refuse medical treatment on the basis of personal convictions, yes. When someone chooses the profession of doctor, they know what that entails and what procedures they may have to perform. As such, if one has moral objections against abortion, they should seriously reconsider if they truly want to become or be a doctor."

[Philimbesi]

they should seriously reconsider if they truly want to become or be a doctor."

They should reconsider if they truly want to become a doctor whose specialty involves the abortion procedure. It's utterly preposterous for a patient seeking an abortion to expect any medical professional to carry out the procedure. You wouldn't go to an eye doctor and expect them to perform a bypass procedure. A patient that expects a doctor to be an expert at every medical procedure simply because they went through medical school is being needlessly naïve.

[Daarwyrth]

they should seriously reconsider if they truly want to become or be a doctor."

They should reconsider if they truly want to become a doctor whose specialty involves the abortion procedure. It's utterly preposterous for a patient seeking an abortion to expect any medical professional to carry out the procedure. You wouldn't go to an eye doctor and expect them to perform a bypass procedure. A patient that expects a doctor to be an expert at every medical procedure simply because they went through medical school is being needlessly naïve.

"A doctor who will be qualified to perform abortions should know that they may be called upon to perform an abortion. I am speaking of those, Ambassador, I thought that would be obvious. If such a doctor has moral or conscientious objections to abortion, it is they who are naive."

[Separatist Peoples]

They should reconsider if they truly want to become a doctor whose specialty involves the abortion procedure. It's utterly preposterous for a patient seeking an abortion to expect any medical professional to carry out the procedure. You wouldn't go to an eye doctor and expect them to perform a bypass procedure. A patient that expects a doctor to be an expert at every medical procedure simply because they went through medical school is being needlessly naïve.

"A doctor who will be qualified to perform abortions should know that they may be called upon to perform an abortion. I am speaking of those, Ambassador, I thought that would be obvious. If such a doctor has moral or conscientious objections to abortion, it is they who are naive."

"Most abortions are induced through oral medication, not surgically induced. I can think of no medical doctor unable to prescribe those drugs. That suggests that a pro-life podiatrist could be called upon to perform an abortion. While I am sympathetic to the underlying argument, it is being applied unreasonably."

[Most Catholic Empire of Antarctica]

"Unethical medical praxis?"

Refusing requested treatment when it is indicated, regardless of your personal convictions as a doctor, is unethical medical praxis.

As is violating the hippocratic oath, death to the WA

[Separatist Peoples]

Refusing requested treatment when it is indicated, regardless of your personal convictions as a doctor, is unethical medical praxis.

As is violating the hippocratic oath, death to the WA

"Ambassador, if member states cannot abide by WA law, they have no business in the WA."

[Daarwyrth]

Refusing requested treatment when it is indicated, regardless of your personal convictions as a doctor, is unethical medical praxis.

As is violating the hippocratic oath, death to the WA

Vyn Nysen: "I haven't read much about Catholicism, it doesn't particularly interest me as a religion, yet wasn't there a line about "love thy neighbours as thy love thyself"? A phrase such as 'death to the WA' isn't particularly Catholic, or Christian, now is it?"

[Outer Sparta]

Refusing requested treatment when it is indicated, regardless of your personal convictions as a doctor, is unethical medical praxis.

As is violating the hippocratic oath, death to the WA

You're not even in the WA, so your point is rather moot if you're not even bounded to WA legislation.

[British Starsian Influence]

As is violating the hippocratic oath, death to the WA

Vyn Nysen: "I haven't read much about Catholicism, it doesn't particularly interest me as a religion, yet wasn't there a line about "love thy neighbours as thy love thyself"? A phrase such as 'death to the WA' isn't particularly Catholic, or Christian, now is it?"

You're right, Ambassador, it isn't, but your opponent is right also. It can be argued that this proposal violates the Hippocratic Oath because it means that doctors cannot faithfully look after their patient's wellbeing. If it wasn't for this clause, I might be able to support this bill ; since it's included--since it forces doctors, albeit ones qualified to perform surgeries of this nature over their own moral and ethical code--I cannot and will not support it.

[British Starsian Influence]

OOC: Look, I'm sorry if I seem like a radical about this issue. I'm a Christian, but not a far-right extremist; I've seen too much of that Trumpist rhetoric warp and destroy the Church.

[Outer Sparta]

OOC: Look, I'm sorry if I seem like a radical about this issue. I'm a Christian, but not a far-right extremist; I've seen too much of that Trumpist rhetoric warp and destroy the Church.

While you may debate about issues in the WA, you won't even get affected by what legislation they enact because you're not a member in the first place. Arguing that this resolution will fundamentally change your nation is pointless since it doesn't affect you in the first place.

[Daarwyrth]

Vyn Nysen: "I haven't read much about Catholicism, it doesn't particularly interest me as a religion, yet wasn't there a line about "love thy neighbours as thy love thyself"? A phrase such as 'death to the WA' isn't particularly Catholic, or Christian, now is it?"

You're right, Ambassador, it isn't, but your opponent is right also. It can be argued that this proposal violates the Hippocratic Oath because it means that doctors cannot faithfully look after their patient's wellbeing. If it wasn't for this clause, I might be able to support this bill ; since it's included--since it forces doctors, albeit ones qualified to perform surgeries of this nature over their own moral and ethical code--I cannot and will not support it.

Maria vyn Nysen frowns and appears both confused and annoyed. "Hippo-whose Oath? What are you talking about? Who is this-" an aid interrupts her and whispers some things into her ear. Her expression flows from confused annoyance to understanding annoyance. "Ah, right. Comparable to our Pledge of the Honourable Healer, but not the same. Yet I don't understand why Daarwyrth's doctors should act according to your-" she leans to her aide, who whispers again. "Hippocratic Oath, instead of our Healer's Pledge. Your Oath is foreign to us, unknown to our people."

[British Starsian Influence]

OOC: Look, I'm sorry if I seem like a radical about this issue. I'm a Christian, but not a far-right extremist; I've seen too much of that Trumpist rhetoric warp and destroy the Church.

While you may debate about issues in the WA, you won't even get affected by what legislation they enact because you're not a member in the first place. Arguing that this resolution will fundamentally change your nation is pointless since it doesn't affect you in the first place.

I' m a Guardian with the Order of the Grey Wardens, so I technically am in the WA, but with a puppet nation. I'm on active duty right now, so I can't be in the WA with my main. And I'm not sure that I'm arguing that this resolution will "fundamentally change my nation"; merely that I think it is immoral and unnecessary.

[Outer Sparta]

While you may debate about issues in the WA, you won't even get affected by what legislation they enact because you're not a member in the first place. Arguing that this resolution will fundamentally change your nation is pointless since it doesn't affect you in the first place.

I' m a Guardian with the Order of the Grey Wardens, so I technically am in the WA, but with a puppet nation. I'm on active duty right now, so I can't be in the WA with my main. And I'm not sure that I'm arguing that this resolution will "fundamentally change my nation"; merely that I think it is immoral and unnecessary.

So is this your main nation then? Also, I've seen a bunch of others arguing about these things that it would fundamentally change their nation yet they aren't even in the WA to begin with. As long as you have a WA nation, I guess it's fine.

[Krillfederative Systems]

I want a new abortion bill to be signed that denounces liberalism.

[Opiachus]

(snip)

(snip)

Seeing that this repeal is about to pass, our delegation will be promptly tabling a resolution protecting the civil rights of medical personnel which we pointed out in our previous communiques (see quote links) would be put at risk by this repeal. The proposal will protect both the woman's right to abortion but also protect medical personnel from state punishment should they abstain from actions related to abortion. We are extremely disappointed by the lack of nuance and rights-based arguments from both sides of this debate. One side fails to see that abortion is indeed already recognized as a right by the WA, and the other side fails to see possible civil rights violations and instead merely repeatedly recites that member states are free to resign from the WA and that majorities outweigh minorities (without taking into consideraton that civil rights of minorities should not be completely overruled by majorities, no matter how large). We will promptly submit our proposal while at the same time supporting Imperium Anglorum's similar proposal which we feel may not be submitted promptly enough for a matter of such importance.

[Outer Sparta]

I want a new abortion bill to be signed that denounces liberalism.

According to your logic, why not denounce the entire WA while you're at it?

[Wallenburg]

Repeal "On Abortion" was passed 12,186 votes to 1,806.

Thanks to all who supported this. Don't worry, "Repeal GAR#10" is on its way.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

Repeal "On Abortion" was passed 12,186 votes to 1,806.

Thanks to all who supported this. Don't worry, "Repeal GAR#10" is on its way.

OOC: I always figured this one had to fall some day. But if you manage to kill NAPA I will be well and truly impressed.