Lib Reich wrote:Full Support. I cannot believe that in this day and age that the state has the power to take someone's life.
It is used on people who deserve to die, which are all the people I listed in the post above
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by Liberty and Unity » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:38 am
Lib Reich wrote:Full Support. I cannot believe that in this day and age that the state has the power to take someone's life.
by Liberty and Unity » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:38 am
The Python wrote:The death penalty is always bad and basically hypocricy on the part of the government. Full support.
by Liberty and Unity » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:41 am
Straona wrote:“inhumane to people who are sentenced to death for crimes they may not have even committed,”
Really? If you got sentenced the death penalty, you’d have to do something so heinous to get it. There is almost no false executions because of witnesses or surveillance technology. Example:
Let’s say some random person committed a Holocaust level killing where exorbitant numbers of innocent civilians are killed during a time of war. There is no people getting sentenced to death for a crime they didn’t commit because either A a surveillance drone caught them on tape or somebody witnessed the event and reported it.
If you got the death penalty, you did something so awful that you shouldn’t be allowed to even have a cell. There is no false executions. Do you know how hard it would be to plant false witnesses and testimonies to make a false accusation like this believable? Besides there’d always be video evidence in this day and age being how modernized or futuristic some nations in NS are. This is ridiculous.
by Separatist Peoples » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:56 am
by Jedinsto » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:56 am
by Navsland » Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:10 am
by Liberty and Unity » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:42 am
by Liberty and Unity » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:48 am
Jedinsto wrote:"While I support the death penalty being used on the worst of human scum, we don't for the purposes of the World Assembly. Too many innocents and those who don't deserve to die are executed under oppressive regimes, a practice I will not allow to continue. If you see my discussion with the ambassador from Separatist Peoples, you will see this resolution addresses a loophole to conscript criminals to execute them at will. At the end of the day, does it really matter if they live or die, if they truly deserve to be executed? Even if it does, at the end of the day, does that outweigh the downsides of innocents and undeserving criminals being executed? I'll answer for you, no it does not. Full, strong, unwavering support."
by Liberty and Unity » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:51 am
Navsland wrote:The Death Penalty, if not abused, would be a contributing factor to law and order in our very chaotic human society.
I would also like add that the death penalty in itself, while morally wrong, would help bring peace of mind to victims. Of course we can argue whether revenge justice really bring peace of mind (I believe its a mix of yes and no) to the victim, but at the very least it will bring closure. Understandably, the biggest concerns I've seen about the death penalty is rehabilitation and wrongful conviction. Both of which I completely understand, but I would like add my own opinion on these matters.
Rehabilitation. Human beings learn best from their mistakes, and I think most of us could agree on this. To err is human, and sometimes this could mean committing a crime, maybe out of desperation or to better improve their live etcetera etcetera. Forgiveness and rehabilitation should be the main focus of the criminal justice system, but that is not say we should forgive every crime committed under the sun. Heinous crimes (i.e. murder, assault, kidnapping, arson, armed robbery, rape, terrorism, and genocide), especially when committed by people who knowingly commit such things for their own sake, should not be forgiven. Even more so if they do not feel any sense of remorse during the sentencing. You could use the argument that they had a rough childhood or that they are mentally disturbed, but this world is vast. If every mentally disturbed person or people with rough childhood were to succumb to their baser instinct then murderers and mass genocide would be a more common thing. Rehab should only be given to those of lesser crimes and to those who shown remorse for their actions or are forced to commit such a heinous crime because of very certain circumstances (i.e. blackmailed into killing etc).
Wrongful conviction. This also another big argument why most would argue against the death penalty and I genuinely understand why. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. We have seen throughout the history of mankind where the death penalty had been arbitrarily applied to the innocent, either by corrupt individuals of power or blind justice. That is why I would propose that the death penalty be only applied to the most heinous of crimes, established with evidence, witnesses and physical proof, under the eyes of a third party watchdog, peered reviewed by government and non government groups, and all party to be held accountable for the sentencing should a foul death penalty occur. The cost will be high, way higher than just straight up incarceration. But I believe that it should be treated as negligible in the pursuit of true justice, as such a punishment would be taking a life a of a fellow human being.
Recently I'd have been made aware that, the costs of keeping an inmate on death row is more expansive than life imprisonment as a whole. I'm not sure how the American legal system works but wouldn't the cost be offset if the amount of appeals were limited to a fixed sum, unless there was insufficient evidence during the time of sentencing? In the UK for example, the condemned were separated from the general prison population in one of two 'condemned cells' located adjacent to the execution chamber. The sentenced inmates were given one appeal. If that appeal was found to involve an important point of law it was taken up to the House of Lords, and if the appeal was successful, at that point the sentence was changed to life in prison. Wouldn't this speed up the process significantly and reduce the overall costs? I'm not sure if it would be cheaper than life imprisonment like this but I'm pretty sure it would be cheaper than the original cost of keeping inmates on the death row.
by Liberty and Unity » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:52 am
Navsland wrote:The Death Penalty, if not abused, would be a contributing factor to law and order in our very chaotic human society.
I would also like add that the death penalty in itself, while morally wrong, would help bring peace of mind to victims. Of course we can argue whether revenge justice really bring peace of mind (I believe its a mix of yes and no) to the victim, but at the very least it will bring closure. Understandably, the biggest concerns I've seen about the death penalty is rehabilitation and wrongful conviction. Both of which I completely understand, but I would like add my own opinion on these matters.
Rehabilitation. Human beings learn best from their mistakes, and I think most of us could agree on this. To err is human, and sometimes this could mean committing a crime, maybe out of desperation or to better improve their live etcetera etcetera. Forgiveness and rehabilitation should be the main focus of the criminal justice system, but that is not say we should forgive every crime committed under the sun. Heinous crimes (i.e. murder, assault, kidnapping, arson, armed robbery, rape, terrorism, and genocide), especially when committed by people who knowingly commit such things for their own sake, should not be forgiven. Even more so if they do not feel any sense of remorse during the sentencing. You could use the argument that they had a rough childhood or that they are mentally disturbed, but this world is vast. If every mentally disturbed person or people with rough childhood were to succumb to their baser instinct then murderers and mass genocide would be a more common thing. Rehab should only be given to those of lesser crimes and to those who shown remorse for their actions or are forced to commit such a heinous crime because of very certain circumstances (i.e. blackmailed into killing etc).
Wrongful conviction. This also another big argument why most would argue against the death penalty and I genuinely understand why. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. We have seen throughout the history of mankind where the death penalty had been arbitrarily applied to the innocent, either by corrupt individuals of power or blind justice. That is why I would propose that the death penalty be only applied to the most heinous of crimes, established with evidence, witnesses and physical proof, under the eyes of a third party watchdog, peered reviewed by government and non government groups, and all party to be held accountable for the sentencing should a foul death penalty occur. The cost will be high, way higher than just straight up incarceration. But I believe that it should be treated as negligible in the pursuit of true justice, as such a punishment would be taking a life a of a fellow human being.
Recently I'd have been made aware that, the costs of keeping an inmate on death row is more expansive than life imprisonment as a whole. I'm not sure how the American legal system works but wouldn't the cost be offset if the amount of appeals were limited to a fixed sum, unless there was insufficient evidence during the time of sentencing? In the UK for example, the condemned were separated from the general prison population in one of two 'condemned cells' located adjacent to the execution chamber. The sentenced inmates were given one appeal. If that appeal was found to involve an important point of law it was taken up to the House of Lords, and if the appeal was successful, at that point the sentence was changed to life in prison. Wouldn't this speed up the process significantly and reduce the overall costs? I'm not sure if it would be cheaper than life imprisonment like this but I'm pretty sure it would be cheaper than the original cost of keeping inmates on the death row.
by Navsland » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:30 am
Liberty and Unity wrote:Don't forget pedophilia. Pedophilia should be a crime and should be treated as such
by Liberty and Unity » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:32 am
by Liberty and Unity » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:33 am
Navsland wrote:Liberty and Unity wrote:Don't forget pedophilia. Pedophilia should be a crime and should be treated as such
I'll be honest. Pedophilia is kind of a grey area for me when it comes to applying the death penalty. My ideal version for the application of the death penalty only applies to heinous crimes (i.e. murder, assault, kidnapping, arson, armed robbery, rape, terrorism, and genocide). Pedophilia, to my limited knowledge, is considered a mental illness, and be treated as such. Applying the death penalty on pedophiliac would only serve to deter people from seeking help from trained professionals, even more so when pedophilia is already frowned upon(for lack of a better word). But then again, acting on your pedophilic impulse does almost always constitutes to rape. I don't know, I would probably need to give it more thought and read up on the subject before saying anything more.
by Junitaki-cho » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:48 am
Feyrisshire wrote:Junitaki-cho wrote:GAR#84 does address one part of this, and I appreciate your pointing it out, but doesn't rule out the receiving country simply disregarding the contract. GAR#443 does deal with this nicely, but I can't help but be concerned about the upcoming repeal attempts and what that would mean having this on the books. It's a troubling implication to sign into law even if it's currently inert.
I think GAR#84 still has a deficiency in dealing with this, as clause 3 simply requires that receiving states enter into a lawful written contract, not that the contract be followed through. A nation wishing to partake in creative compliance can technically follow this resolution and also GAR#84 by divulging the fate of the victim (not forced disappearance), enter into a written contract with said receiving nation, and then let the nation violate it. The sending nation can then use as justification that it's not their fault since the receiving nation violated it anyway, and presumably sue the nation for show.
by Separatist Peoples » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:52 am
by Separatist Peoples » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:54 am
by Navsland » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:05 am
by Straona » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:06 am
Separatist Peoples wrote:Straona wrote:Sorry but this isn’t a perfect world. Those who commit such heinous crimes during war or not such as mass murder don’t change. They deserve a firing squad
"This is not an argument I made, ambassador. Perfection is irrelevant to my claim. Now, would you like to respond to the salient point made, or would you prefer to attack arguments I didn't make?"
by Separatist Peoples » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:16 am
Straona wrote:Separatist Peoples wrote:"This is not an argument I made, ambassador. Perfection is irrelevant to my claim. Now, would you like to respond to the salient point made, or would you prefer to attack arguments I didn't make?"
Alright I won’t attack, if you’re point was on the integrity of the judicial process then I can understand. However we’re talking about the death penalty involving the military which in turn involves war criminals. They will never change. Those who commit such heinous acts don’t deserve a trial. People who had connections to such criminals can get one (Nuremberg reference). The death penalty doesn’t necessarily always involve revenge. That would be honor killing which you guys axed even if that was someone else’s culture. War criminals don’t get someone’s petty vengeance enacted upon them. They’re tried before the military and if death penalty is chosen is purely based on crimes committed during a time of war.
by GreaterFrance » Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:49 pm
by Astrobolt » Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:55 pm
GreaterFrance wrote:Death Penalty does apparently not reduce crime, but it has at least one big advantage, it is that the cost of a criminal care is not supported anymore by the nation population. I personally understand and agree with people who tell that they don't want to pay to take care of someone who killed people.
It also allows to banish the risk of having a such person liberated, person who could kill again.
We need death penalty.
by Daarwyrth » Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:03 pm
by GreaterFrance » Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:04 pm
Astrobolt wrote:GreaterFrance wrote:Death Penalty does apparently not reduce crime, but it has at least one big advantage, it is that the cost of a criminal care is not supported anymore by the nation population. I personally understand and agree with people who tell that they don't want to pay to take care of someone who killed people.
It also allows to banish the risk of having a such person liberated, person who could kill again.
We need death penalty.
"Ambassador, you should be aware that the death penalty is actually more expensive than life imprisonment, because when a person's life is on the line, longer trials and more experts are needed to ascertain guilt. Furthermore, banning the death penalty allows us to remove the risk of executing an innocent person, something that will always remain should this punishment remain permitted."
by Daarwyrth » Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:06 pm
GreaterFrance wrote:Astrobolt wrote:
"Ambassador, you should be aware that the death penalty is actually more expensive than life imprisonment, because when a person's life is on the line, longer trials and more experts are needed to ascertain guilt. Furthermore, banning the death penalty allows us to remove the risk of executing an innocent person, something that will always remain should this punishment remain permitted."
Of course death penalty should happen ONLY if we are certain that the judged person is the criminal what is mostly what happens.
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