NationStates

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:11 am**

American Pere Housh wrote:"This entire thing looks like a complete waste of of the GA's time plus APH is apart of SETA which is an economic as well as a military alliance. These restrictions are unnecessary and if my economy suffers as a result of this Convention,I know exactly who to blame." Vanny flips the IA ambassador a bird with both hands behind her back.

“This is a free trade proposal, ambassador; it removes restrictions and indeed prohibits certain types of restrictions, rather than adding them. Hence, I don’t see why this wouldn’t benefit the global economy, instead of, as you are suggesting, worsen it. I think Kenmoria is a member of SETA.” Ambassador Lewitt looks something up on a phone, a replacement to the one earlier thrown in a shredder, “Kenmoria is in fact definitely a member of SETA, and I don’t see why that would constitute an issue for this proposal.”

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:36 am**

Merni wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: Not really. It amounts to elective ignorance. It's either an admission of laziness or ineptitude.

OOC: or...just not wanting to need to research about complex economic topics for a frickin web game?
Edit: Or, especially for non-native speakers, to make sense of wording like "no penalty for non-compliant activities taken with good faith reliance on such declarations may be imposed;".

Ooc: unwillingness to understand is laziness. If you play, you put the time in to play right.

American Pere Housh wrote:"This entire thing looks like a complete waste of of the GA's time plus APH is apart of SETA which is an economic as well as a military alliance. These restrictions are unnecessary and if my economy suffers as a result of this Convention,I know exactly who to blame." Vanny flips the IA ambassador a bird with both hands behind her back.

"Ambassador, I respectfully suggest that if you don't see why this is a useful piece of legislation, you are simply not cut out for a job involving policy analysis. Your behavior suggests you have no diplomatic skills to speak of, and I wonder how precisely you expect to make anything but a fool of yourself with this display."

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:04 am**

OOC: I don't quite get why Merni is getting shot for being the messenger here. It's a fair point.

IC: "This proposal is a cromulent in terms of the Socialism in All Countries policy of the Party and we are pleased to vote in favour."

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:05 pm**

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Merni wrote:OOC: or...just not wanting to need to research about complex economic topics for a frickin web game?
Edit: Or, especially for non-native speakers, to make sense of wording like "no penalty for non-compliant activities taken with good faith reliance on such declarations may be imposed;".

Ooc: unwillingness to understand is laziness. If you play, you put the time in to play right.

American Pere Housh wrote:"This entire thing looks like a complete waste of of the GA's time plus APH is apart of SETA which is an economic as well as a military alliance. These restrictions are unnecessary and if my economy suffers as a result of this Convention,I know exactly who to blame." Vanny flips the IA ambassador a bird with both hands behind her back.

"Ambassador, I respectfully suggest that if you don't see why this is a useful piece of legislation, you are simply not cut out for a job involving policy analysis. Your behavior suggests you have no diplomatic skills to speak of, and I wonder how precisely you expect to make anything but a fool of yourself with this display."

Vanny shook her head, "That is your opinion of what you think of me. I apologize for my rudeness but I will still be voting against this as my leader and myself think that the WA shouldn't interfere in the economies of member nations."

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:58 pm**

American Pere Housh wrote:Vanny shook her head, "That is your opinion of what you think of me. I apologize for my rudeness but I will still be voting against this as my leader and myself think that the WA shouldn't interfere in the economies of member nations."

"It is my opinion. And that of several delegations who frequent these halls. I'm not sure how you expect to achieve your nation's diplomatic goals when diplomacy is so difficult for your delegation. Your vote is irrelevant to this observation."

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:12 pm**

Tinfect wrote:
Merni wrote:OOC: or...just not wanting to need to research about complex economic topics for a frickin web game?

OOC: As much as it is the case that the draft is written in a particularly impenetrable way, the GA is rather here specifically for complex legal and economic topics.

OOC: No it's not. That's just what IA and SP have made it. It hasn't been like that forever. It's also not my fault (or that of anyone else voting against for this reason) that especially IA seems to be simply uncapable (rather than unwilling) to use simpler language not needing the reader to put in hours of specific research just to understand one of his crappy proposals. It's much easier to vote against and then ignore it because there's nothing he can do to force you to RP a specific way on NS or II or anywhere else.

(For the record, SP at least answers questions in simple enough language on his Legalese-dense draft threads. Of course people might not post there to ask their questions (instead just voting against out of "cba find out what it's trying to say"), but he's generally more accommodating than IA. Right now I think he might be suffering from Xmas-related stress or something.)

Separatist Peoples wrote:Ooc: unwillingness to understand is laziness.

OOC: Eli olet laiska kun et ymmärrä suomenkieltä? Tämä selvä.

Posted: **Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:35 pm**

Araraukar wrote:It's also not my fault (or that of anyone else voting against for this reason) that especially IA seems to be simply uncapable (rather than unwilling) to use simpler language not needing the reader to put in hours of specific research just to understand one of his crappy proposals. It's much easier to vote against and then ignore it because there's nothing he can do to force you to RP a specific way on NS or II or anywhere else.

I have used the simplest language that I feel is reasonably understandable which will fit within the character limit. Nor do you need hours of research to understand any portion of this proposal. You, rather, refuse to try, refuse to engage, and then declare defeat after discovering you do not already know everything there is to know about the topic. I'm not the only person you don't feel like listening to. I'm just the one of the few ones who you can't browbeat with frivolous legality allegations. Maybe consider "changing your attitude immensely and doing basic research into actual practices".

The last sentence does, however, touch on what I mean about Ara (the nation) being non-compliant with GA resolutions. If you ignore resolutions, you're not compliant with them. Let's call that dispositive and leave it there.

Araraukar wrote:(For the record, SP at least answers questions in simple enough language on his Legalese-dense draft threads. Of course people might not post there to ask their questions (instead just voting against out of "cba find out what it's trying to say"), but he's generally more accommodating than IA. Right now I think he might be suffering from Xmas-related stress or something.)

You've asked zero questions in this thread Ara. The last time you interjected on an international trade topic was when you asserted some rubbish interpretation of 'trade preferences'. Naturally, for didactic purposes, I spent time explaining what the phrase actually means. I remember your response was that you didn't want to read my posts. Maybe the reason you've found me less accommodating than Sep is because you refuse to ask any questions or read any answers. That sounds like a you problem.

That said, I'll quote from the second post in this thread:

Imperium Anglorum wrote:In before people complain about how the proposal on international trade is complex and difficult while refusing to believe that maybe the reason why that is so is because international trade is complex and difficult.

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:16 am**

OOC: I have asked zero questions because I have zero interest in this topic and because instead of answering, you tend to quote pages of economics text books, which is zero on the helpfulness scale.

Secondly, I know it's a difficult thing in RL, I don't think anyone on this thread has tried to claim otherwise?

EDIT: Thirdly, I have invited you before to RP as the Wine And Crouton Conference and get in contact with Araraukar if you think there are problems with its compliance. But me the player ignoring something I don't understand in my RP is not the same as the nation doing so. There are many things in the world that I have no detailed knowledge of such as electric grid current flow control, but which I assume my IC nation manages nevertheless. I just don't include it in my RP because it's beyond my knowledge. Do you understand the difference?

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:05 am**

Araraukar wrote:OOC: I have asked zero questions because I have zero interest in this topic and because instead of answering, you tend to quote pages of economics text books, which is zero on the helpfulness scale.

So you whinge about 'crappy' the proposal is and assert that you'll vote against because you don't understand it... and refuse to ask any questions or read any responses about the topic... because you have zero interest in it. What do you think of Sep's response to you, that:

[voting against because you don't understand it] amounts to elective ignorance. It's either an admission of laziness or ineptitude.

Do you agree or disagree with his contention?

That said, I never knew that the Cong Rsch Serv, GATT, the Kyoto Convention, etc were textbooks. The last three seem to be the actual primary sources and the first seems to be an introductory primer meant for people without a clear background. If you have any questions, ask them instead of pretending that wilful ignorance is actually standing up for your 'principles' of not liking what I do.

Araraukar wrote:Secondly, I know it's a difficult thing in RL, I don't think anyone on this thread has tried to claim otherwise?

Well, perhaps then, you might accept that the reason this proposal might not be readily understandable for 16 year olds (well, actually, send them to IB econ and it will be readily understandable) is because topic is difficult in real life. Complaining about the proposal being complex or difficult has to presuppose a non-proportionality of that difficulty. Maybe that difficultly actually is proportionate, especially because, as you say, '[it is] a difficult thing in [real life]'.

Araraukar wrote:EDIT: Thirdly, I have invited you before to RP as the Wine And Crouton Conference and get in contact with Araraukar if you think there are problems with its compliance. But me the player ignoring something I don't understand in my RP is not the same as the nation doing so. There are many things in the world that I have no detailed knowledge of such as electric grid current flow control, but which I assume my IC nation manages nevertheless. I just don't include it in my RP because it's beyond my knowledge. Do you understand the difference?

I'm not stupid enough to fall into your obvious trap of getting fodder for 'Anakin! I told you it would come to this! IA is taking over!' by roleplaying as the Wacc. Nor has it been good form to roleplay as any WA organisation at least since the World Space Admin. There is a difference between 'Vote against and if I lose, it doesn't exist!' and 'They do stuff that I don't understand'. Waving 'I just ignore it' as your badge of honour is less of the latter and seems more like an attempt to transmute god-modding into virtue.

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:16 am**

Tariffs and Trade Convention was passed 8,420 votes to 5,183.

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:54 am**

Araraukar wrote:OOC: Eli olet laiska kun et ymmärrä suomenkieltä? Tämä selvä.

Ooc: I sure would be if I didn't bother trying to translate. Which is not hard with an internet connection.

Look, I put effort into learning through research!

Posted: **Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:25 pm**

NationStates

[PASSED] Tariffs and Trade Convention