NationStates

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:25 am**

Disclaimer: I am not the author of this resolution

https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vi ... 1594473626
Seeing as this proposal has already been submitted with a recruitment campaign and no discussion thread exists, I'll go ahead and post this proposal here and invite the author Can No Rey to come and defend it.

Recognizing that ravana incited war with Lasagna,

Understanding that there was much miscommunication and misunderstanding which took a role in the start of the conflict,

Disturbed that ravana's WA delegate, Nopengie, reacted with undue hostility and aggression towards the proposed merger, when aggression was unwarranted and a simple no thank you would have been accepted instead of threats,

Sickened by the sheer volume of misinformation and propaganda used against Lasagna to further ravana's military goal,

Saddened that while Lasagna tried to work for peace, ravana twisted messages by Lasagnaian citizen nations like, Can No Rey thinks Lasagna may need a military action, to sound as if Lasagna started the war, and declared war on Lasagna when peace was close at hand,

Disgusted that ravana raided and occupied a region, that was liberated by the LAF (Lasagna Armed Forces) only days before and was almost stabilized, then made the battle sound like a great victory, even though ravana attacked at midnight and no nations were able to mobilize and to counter the attack, then destabilized the region more by banning the few natives left and claiming the region as ravana's,

Shocked by the amount of violence expressed at Lasagna when it was not needed,

Horrified by the raids conducted by ravana under the pretense of "war" that really involved raiding defenseless regions, such as the Council of Regions and disrupting nations trying to unite regions and make the world a better and more organized place,

Noting that nations like Victoria Pond tried to disrupt peace talks and destabilize communications further when peace was close at hand,

Shocked that nations like Victoria Pond suppressed Lasagna's diplomats in an effort to make the diplomats stop peace talks and continue the war,

Admitting that Lasagna played a part in furthering the war but realizing Lasagna's part pales in comparison to ravana's,

Further noting that Lasagna was in the middle of working to stabilize several regions but that ravana's deceleration of war has caused many regions that needed Lasagna's help have received none because of Lasagna having to defend itself,

Angered by the amount of taunts and mockery used by ravana to hurt Lasagna and incite Lasagna to strike first, which would make Lasagna the perpetrator and ravana the victim instead of the current situation,

Hereby Condemns ravana.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:49 am**

Here is a real retelling of the events that transpired:

Recognizing that ravana incited war with Lasagna,

Understanding that there was much miscommunication and misunderstanding which took a role in the start of the conflict,
The misunderstanding in question is that the Lasagna Minister of Defense reached out to a MP of Ravana asking for a merger in which Ravana would be fully integrated into Lasagna. Nopengie, the MP (and also a second week player on nationstates) took this as a provocation and denounced the effort by Lasagna. In response to his denunciation, Lasagna forces moved into Ravana on an attempted raid that was called off at the last minute. Ravanian operatives infiltraited the Lasagna discord and found the military coordination in which the attack had been planned, and declared war in response.
Disturbed that ravana's WA delegate, Nopengie, reacted with undue hostility and aggression towards the proposed merger, when aggression was unwarranted and a simple no thank you would have been accepted instead of threats,
You'll find that the common denominator throughout the conflict is that Lasagna is perpetually offended by how they are discussed on other region's RMB's. Nopengie, a brand new player, seeing the miscommunicated merger as a threat of annexation, denounced Lasagna. Despite the rest of the region assuring it didn't even matter, Lasagna was upset enough to begin planning military operations.
Sickened by the sheer volume of misinformation and propaganda used against Lasagna to further ravana's military goal,
There is not a single real example of 'misinformation,' this is merely a term used by the LAFers to talk about things they disagree with.
Saddened that while Lasagna tried to work for peace, ravana twisted messages by Lasagnaian citizen nations like, Can No Rey thinks Lasagna may need a military action, to sound as if Lasagna started the war, and declared war on Lasagna when peace was close at hand,
The comment they reference here was made before Ravana declared war and was a part of the motivation behind the declaration. Our intel from their discord paired with statements by their government officials that they "wanted a military option" prompted us to move to war. The working for peace portion is incredibly confusing, as Ravana proposed six different unique treaties before each attack and were continually rejected. We even appealed to Lasagna's allies, the AoR, and Old Zealand. In the end, Ravana unilaterally ended the war as Lasagna ended diplomatic channels and refused to negotiate. Even today, we have asked for status quo agreements which they continue to reject.
Disgusted that ravana raided and occupied a region, that was liberated by the LAF (Lasagna Armed Forces) only days before and was almost stabilized, then made the battle sound like a great victory, even though ravana attacked at midnight and no nations were able to mobilize and to counter the attack, then destabilized the region more by banning the few natives left and claiming the region as ravana's,
The region in question is Lasagna Part Two. It had no natives, and no activity for several months. It was taken in a raid to demonstrate military capacity, I don't think you can destabilize a unused region with 0 natives. But alas, I concede. How cowardly were we to attack a region at midnight! We truely should have given the LAFers a heads up so they could counter an attack, it really is unfair to be successful and sneaky.
Shocked by the amount of violence expressed at Lasagna when it was not needed,
No examples, because none exist.
Horrified by the raids conducted by ravana under the pretense of "war" that really involved raiding defenseless regions, such as the Council of Regions and disrupting nations trying to unite regions and make the world a better and more organized place,
We Tagged Council of Regions within days of their attempt to retake Lasagna Part Two. We aren't even a raiding region, we ran three operations directly at Lasagna in an effort to resolve the war. At each point, we sued for peace and were rejected.
Noting that nations like Victoria Pond tried to disrupt peace talks and destabilize communications further when peace was close at hand,
Unclear what this is referencing, I was the only one to ever negotiate on behalf of Ravana, however Lasagna sacked 4 different diplomats and had a continually shifting narrative and set of demands. The only obstruction to peace was Lasagna itself. That's why Ravana unilaterally declared peace last week, and moved on.
Shocked that nations like Victoria Pond suppressed Lasagna's diplomats in an effort to make the diplomats stop peace talks and continue the war,
We banned their diplomat, Zimingo, after my diplomat, Anavar, was banned from Lasagna. Tit for Tat.
Admitting that Lasagna played a part in furthering the war but realizing Lasagna's part pales in comparison to ravana's,
Oh of course, *pales* before Ravana.
Further noting that Lasagna was in the middle of working to stabilize several regions but that ravana's deceleration of war has caused many regions that needed Lasagna's help have received none because of Lasagna having to defend itself,
Our Deceleration of war? I think you mean declaration, it's impressive that there are still spelling errors in a draft that has already been declared illegal four times. Alas, this sentence makes no sense.
Angered by the amount of taunts and mockery used by ravana to hurt Lasagna and incite Lasagna to strike first, which would make Lasagna the perpetrator and ravana the victim instead of the current situation,
Here they admit to striking first, and also reveal that it was in response to their deeply heartfelt pain that Nopengie denounced Lasagna. How dare he offend their honor.
Hereby Condemns ravana.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:08 am**

Finally managed to get a legal proposal after four attempts. You’d think with all those rewrites the author would have come up with something half decent. Unfortunately not. Mind you the attempt by Nopengie to condemn Lasagna was also pretty shocking in terms of quality.

Let’s face it this is just a petty dispute between two very minor regions and not worth wasting the SC’s time with.

Take your childish arguments elsewhere.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:12 am**

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Finally managed to get a legal proposal after four attempts. You’d think with all those rewrites the author would have come up with something half decent. Unfortunately not. Mind you the attempt by Nopengie to condemn Lasagna was also pretty shocking in terms of quality.

Let’s face it this is just a petty dispute between two very minor regions and not worth wasting the SC’s time with.

Take your childish arguments elsewhere.

Yeah, Nopengie truely doesn’t understand the WA yet, I was able to convince him to take down the second proposal. This Is entirely a petty dispute, and a resolved dispute at that. It’s a waste of the WA’s time.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:48 am**

As much as I would like to be condemned by this mighty council, I would like for that badge of dishonor to come from a worthy act of villainy rather than…whatever this is. This proposal trivializes the functions of the Security Council and the World Assembly by calling on it to justify the political intentions of a single region (by demonizing another) and intentionally misleads the good and honest voters of this body in order to do so. The resolution is primarily concerned with two allegations: 1. Ravana has destabilized regions and 2. Ravana is belligerent in tone. The first allegation is a carefully crafted lie and the second allegation falls far below the purview of this mighty and noble council.

Consider clauses Disgusted, Horrified, and Further Noting. Each accuses Ravana of engaging in “destabilizing” behavior. The term “stabilized” as it is used in clause Disgusted is a meaningless buzzword designed to trick the voting public into thinking there was some sort of community hard at work rebuilding their region before being mercilessly attacked. The actual region in question, Lasagna Part Two, is a puppet dump with no native community. This topic was argued exhaustively by more professional members of the WA when Lasagna’s allies attempted to pass a Liberation Proposal for the same region less than two weeks ago. Council of Regions was a similarly empty wasteland. Finally, the resolution’s author makes the baffling argument in clause Further Noting that, “Lasagna was in the middle of working to stabilize several regions but that ravana's deceleration of war has caused many regions that needed Lasagna's help have received none.[sic]” Is one region to be held responsible for the hypothetical alternative actions of another region?

Secondary to the main issue, this resolution is deeply concerned with the language Ravana has used. Clauses Disturbed, Sickened, Shocked, Noting, Shocked (again), and Angered all condemn Ravana for speaking in hostile tones. To be perfectly clear, no member of Ravana has been cited for disciplinary action by the proper authorities and all its official correspondence has strictly adhered to the NS Code of Conduct (something the author’s region cannot boast). I cannot think of another Security Council proposal that condemned a region for being rude and I can’t help but notice that the resolution is void of any relevant quotes or examples of the alleged behavior.

Before voting on this resolution, demand these answers from the author: Where can I find a native member of the destabilized regional communities you speak of? Where can I find the regions you were supposedly prevented from helping and how were you prevented from helping them? Where can I find quotes evincing a hostile and belligerent culture deeply rooted within the accused region?

This is indeed a petty regional dispute. I apologize on behalf of my region to everyone in the world community who has been forced to read and re-read these proposals. I would encourage you to strike down this proposal if for no other reason than to exact a satisfying vengeance on us for having wasted so much of your time.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:59 am**

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Finally managed to get a legal proposal after four attempts. You’d think with all those rewrites the author would have come up with something half decent. Unfortunately not. Mind you the attempt by Nopengie to condemn Lasagna was also pretty shocking in terms of quality.

Let’s face it this is just a petty dispute between two very minor regions and not worth wasting the SC’s time with.

Take your childish arguments elsewhere.

How many of us will have to quote the above post before y'all stop wasting our time and your stamps?

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:19 pm**

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Finally managed to get a legal proposal after four attempts. You’d think with all those rewrites the author would have come up with something half decent. Unfortunately not. Mind you the attempt by Nopengie to condemn Lasagna was also pretty shocking in terms of quality.

Let’s face it this is just a petty dispute between two very minor regions and not worth wasting the SC’s time with.

Take your childish arguments elsewhere.

Pretty much this. Now for the inevitable arguments that "These are my allies though"! :roll:

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:37 pm**

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Take your childish arguments elsewhere.

This - your disputes aren't really anybody else's problems, and unless Ravana starts turning other hapless regions into territories, I don't think they've done anything particularly condemn-worthy.

I definitely appreciate Farlandiay, posting the proposal here and challenging Can No Rey to come defend it is one hell of a powermove.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:40 pm**

I support it and will join the WA to vote for it. This is what the Security Council should be for, not handing out good-spirited "Condemn"-ations after years of service for one side or another in roleplay pretending to be gameplay (the regulars will disagree, but they would, wouldn't they?).

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:06 pm**

Opposed. I don't see much that requires any intervention by the SC.

Posted: **Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:16 am**

Wayneactia wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Finally managed to get a legal proposal after four attempts. You’d think with all those rewrites the author would have come up with something half decent. Unfortunately not. Mind you the attempt by Nopengie to condemn Lasagna was also pretty shocking in terms of quality.

Let’s face it this is just a petty dispute between two very minor regions and not worth wasting the SC’s time with.

Take your childish arguments elsewhere.

Pretty much this. Now for the inevitable arguments that "These are my allies though"!

Benevolent Thomas wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Finally managed to get a legal proposal after four attempts. You’d think with all those rewrites the author would have come up with something half decent. Unfortunately not. Mind you the attempt by Nopengie to condemn Lasagna was also pretty shocking in terms of quality.

Let’s face it this is just a petty dispute between two very minor regions and not worth wasting the SC’s time with.

Take your childish arguments elsewhere.

How many of us will have to quote the above post before y'all stop wasting our time and your stamps?

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Finally managed to get a legal proposal after four attempts. You’d think with all those rewrites the author would have come up with something half decent. Unfortunately not. Mind you the attempt by Nopengie to condemn Lasagna was also pretty shocking in terms of quality.

Let’s face it this is just a petty dispute between two very minor regions and not worth wasting the SC’s time with.

Take your childish arguments elsewhere.

I will have to agree with you all there.

Posted: **Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:25 am**

Farlandiay wrote:https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_view_proposal/id=can_no_rey_1594473626
Seeing as this proposal has already been submitted with a recruitment campaign and no discussion thread exists, I'll go ahead and post this proposal here and invite the author Can No Rey to come and defend it.

Well we tried talking to you about it on your region page but you banned us every time we made a good argument. The only way you will win a debate I guess is when no one is around.

Anyways did you guys seriusly make a poll in which you had people vote on how much Lasagna sucks and then when we do the exact same thing you report it to the moderators, like seriusly. We are not like you so we wont report your poll but this proves how ravana fights.

If we can condemn TBH for raiding then we ca defianetly condemn you. Lasagna is doing good work. We help regions that are having a tough time in gaining population again but then Ravana comes in and raids innocent regions just like TBH but unlike TBH Ravana calls themselves Neutral when they are clearly raiders.

Posted: **Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:41 am**

The Grey Isles wrote:If we can condemn TBH for raiding then we ca defianetly condemn you.

Ravana and TBH are two completely different beasts, and work on completely different scales.

You're comparing Ravana which takes over one or two regions a year, to TBH which regularly raids over a hundred regions daily.

Yes, you can condemn TBH for raiding - using that as justification to condemn Ravana shows a gross misunderstanding of the wider NS world, and is extremely misguided.

Note that this is also an extremely generous reading, and oversimplifies TBH's activity. SECFanatics alone was a much bigger target than Lasagna by several orders of magnitude, and TBH exists to raid things like SECFanatics.

Posted: **Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:03 pm**

The Grey Isles wrote:
Farlandiay wrote:https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_view_proposal/id=can_no_rey_1594473626
Seeing as this proposal has already been submitted with a recruitment campaign and no discussion thread exists, I'll go ahead and post this proposal here and invite the author Can No Rey to come and defend it.

Anyways did you guys seriusly make a poll in which you had people vote on how much Lasagna sucks and then when we do the exact same thing you report it to the moderators, like seriusly. We are not like you so we wont report your poll but this proves how ravana fights.

I have no idea what you're getting off about on polls, as far as I know nobody reported whatever poll you're talking about. You, personally, were reprimanded for using a puppet to post "I'm a puppet of Farlandiay, everyone go spam The South Pacific" and for spamming our RMB after being asked not to. Even that, doesn't come remotely close to earning a condemnation, but it certainly casts doubt upon your claims that we secretly circumnavigate moderation while you are mercilessly prosecuted for breaking the cite rules. As I've said before, if moderation confuses you, go read the one stop rules shop.

Posted: **Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:07 pm**

Farlandiay wrote:
The Grey Isles wrote:Anyways did you guys seriusly make a poll in which you had people vote on how much Lasagna sucks and then when we do the exact same thing you report it to the moderators, like seriusly. We are not like you so we wont report your poll but this proves how ravana fights.

I have no idea what you're getting off about on polls, as far as I know nobody reported whatever poll you're talking about. You, personally, were reprimanded for using a puppet to post "I'm a puppet of Farlandiay, everyone go spam The South Pacific" and for spamming our RMB after being asked not to. Even that, doesn't come remotely close to earning a condemnation, but it certainly casts doubt upon your claims that we secretly circumnavigate moderation while you are mercilessly prosecuted for breaking the cite rules. As I've said before, if moderation confuses you, go read the one stop rules shop.

So there was WA campaign spam going on?

Posted: **Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:21 pm**

Outer Sparta wrote:
Farlandiay wrote:I have no idea what you're getting off about on polls, as far as I know nobody reported whatever poll you're talking about. You, personally, were reprimanded for using a puppet to post "I'm a puppet of Farlandiay, everyone go spam The South Pacific" and for spamming our RMB after being asked not to. Even that, doesn't come remotely close to earning a condemnation, but it certainly casts doubt upon your claims that we secretly circumnavigate moderation while you are mercilessly prosecuted for breaking the cite rules. As I've said before, if moderation confuses you, go read the one stop rules shop.

So there was WA campaign spam going on?

RMB Spam, it wasn't to advertise for this proposal it was just them spamming for 'revenge'.

Posted: **Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:23 pm**

Farlandiay wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:So there was WA campaign spam going on?

RMB Spam, it wasn't to advertise for this proposal it was just them spamming for 'revenge'.

I wonder if there's some sort of WA campaign spam going on that is getting the proposal a ton of approvals.

Posted: **Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:25 pm**

I would support this proposal... besides the fact that it wasn't actually drafted in the forums. That would probably be fine with me if the author was a 10 time SC author but the author was founded about two weeks ago.

Outer Sparta wrote:I wonder if there's some sort of WA campaign spam going on that is getting the proposal a ton of approvals.

Yea, I got a TG.

Posted: **Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:06 pm**

The Grey Isles wrote:Anyways did you guys seriusly make a poll in which you had people vote on how much Lasagna sucks and then when we do the exact same thing you report it to the moderators, like seriusly. We are not like you so we wont report your poll but this proves how ravana fights.

Nope I was the one who reported your poll. If you refuse to report obvious rule breaking actions and then attempt them yourselves you'll find yourself in hot water with the international community fairly quick (And possibly a cranky mod).

Posted: **Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:47 pm**

Farlandiay wrote:
The Grey Isles wrote:Anyways did you guys seriusly make a poll in which you had people vote on how much Lasagna sucks and then when we do the exact same thing you report it to the moderators, like seriusly. We are not like you so we wont report your poll but this proves how ravana fights.

I have no idea what you're getting off about on polls, as far as I know nobody reported whatever poll you're talking about. You, personally, were reprimanded for using a puppet to post "I'm a puppet of Farlandiay, everyone go spam The South Pacific" and for spamming our RMB after being asked not to. Even that, doesn't come remotely close to earning a condemnation, but it certainly casts doubt upon your claims that we secretly circumnavigate moderation while you are mercilessly prosecuted for breaking the cite rules. As I've said before, if moderation confuses you, go read the one stop rules shop.

I was reported for copying one of your polls, also people I have played for some time, you all dont understand the implications if ravana gets away with lying, cheating, and reporting basically nothing to the mods.

Posted: **Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:55 pm**

Can No Rey wrote:
Farlandiay wrote:I have no idea what you're getting off about on polls, as far as I know nobody reported whatever poll you're talking about. You, personally, were reprimanded for using a puppet to post "I'm a puppet of Farlandiay, everyone go spam The South Pacific" and for spamming our RMB after being asked not to. Even that, doesn't come remotely close to earning a condemnation, but it certainly casts doubt upon your claims that we secretly circumnavigate moderation while you are mercilessly prosecuted for breaking the cite rules. As I've said before, if moderation confuses you, go read the one stop rules shop.

I was reported for copying one of your polls, also people I have played for some time, you all dont understand the implications if ravana gets away with lying, cheating, and reporting basically nothing to the mods.

Why not address the rest of your proposal while you're here?

Posted: **Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:58 pm**

If this makes it to resolution but Liberate SECFanatics didn't, I am freaking the hell out.
This is honestly an even bigger sign of noobiness than what I did with SECFanatics. I see the similarities though, it is a badgegrab by someone with minor knowledge of the SC, it helps only one or two regions, and is popular because of a spam campaign. I wouldn't mind being condemned and I think everyone else would agree. Well at least finally the SC has activity that's someone else's nooby proposal instead of mine.

Posted: **Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:36 pm**

One more approval!

We can do this!

Posted: **Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:11 pm**

Can No Rey wrote:you all dont understand the implications if ravana gets away with lying, cheating, and reporting basically nothing to the mods.

...Woe is me?

All this is raiding, and a lot of it is nothing but filler. Ravana raided a couple of regions, and if 'midnight' is to be believed, they understand the game's mechanics. Lily doesn't have a condemn despite raiding over 200 regions in a single day.
Raiding wise, Ravana isn't really that noteworthy. The only noteworthy thing is one of their victims came running to the WASC and started making a racket.

Why does anybody care about any of this? If you had demonstrated that Ravana had a history of doing this to other regions, you might have had something to work with.
However as it is, this is an isolated incident - if they're not actually problematic, why should they be condemned?

Team Lennox wrote:One more approval! We can do this!

Approval does not mean passing, and if it's approval is uncertain, it's not going to pass.

Posted: **Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:30 pm**

Dollystana wrote:If this makes it to resolution but Liberate SECFanatics didn't, I am freaking the hell out.
This is honestly an even bigger sign of noobiness than what I did with SECFanatics. I see the similarities though, it is a badgegrab by someone with minor knowledge of the SC, it helps only one or two regions, and is popular because of a spam campaign. I wouldn't mind being condemned and I think everyone else would agree. Well at least finally the SC has activity that's someone else's nooby proposal instead of mine.

It wasnt spam, it was 1 telegram to the WADs

NationStates

[DEFEATED] Condemn Ravana

[DEFEATED] Condemn Ravana