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[DEFEATED] Restrictions on Blood Sports

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

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Astrobolt
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Postby Astrobolt » Sat May 30, 2020 11:22 am

Slackertown wrote:This has so many holes in it, it's effectively useless.



"What are the holes?"
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Ixzara
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Postby Ixzara » Sat May 30, 2020 11:51 am

While the Federation lauds the intent of this Resolution, it is the official stance of the Ixzaran Federation on behalf of its people vis-a-vis the controls this seeks to enact, should be relegated to the individual member states to internally consider respective each member states' individual cultural and societal traditions and norms.

OOC: Someone please grammar check me. English isn't my first language and writing formally is not my forte.
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Christian Democrats
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Postby Christian Democrats » Sat May 30, 2020 12:01 pm

The Most Holy and Grand Empire has voted against this proposal because it would effectively outlaw Spanish-style bullfighting. Bullfighting is not an international concern, and it's not clear to us that fighting bulls have a less dignified existence than cows that are turned into ground beef.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/is-bullfighting-cruel-what-i-learned-during-a-year-on-breeding-estates-a6783541.html

In matters such as these, where there are several reasonable opinions and where basic human rights or basic human morality is not involved, we think the World Assembly should defer judgment to individual member states.
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Bormiar
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Postby Bormiar » Sat May 30, 2020 1:32 pm

Image


Current Internal Vote (For/Against/Abstain): 1 to 7 to 0

The TRR World Assembly Affairs Office has published a Pros and Cons dispatch on "Restrictions On Blood Sports".

Dead I Jack has voted AGAINST in accordance with forum vote.



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Wallenburg
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Founded: Jan 30, 2015
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Postby Wallenburg » Sat May 30, 2020 2:26 pm

Gryphonian Alliance wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:"Your cultural imperialism disgusts me. Wallenburg votes against this. A significant portion of our population adheres to customs of voluntary combat which have preserved local order for hundreds of years. The last thing we need is all-out clan warfare within our borders just because some dainty foreign fucks think it's too bloody."

As long as this voluntary combat doesn't regularly result in death of the participants, it does not conflict with the resolution.

"Duels usually result in the death of one champion or even both. It's a necessary component of the engagement's justice.

"I also note that any combat whose aim is to kill the opponent is prohibited. The regularity of death is of no relevance."
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
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Heavens Reach
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Founded: May 08, 2017
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Postby Heavens Reach » Sat May 30, 2020 3:49 pm

We see no reason to oppose. Full support.

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Kenmoria
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Founded: Jul 03, 2017
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Postby Kenmoria » Sat May 30, 2020 4:08 pm

Champagne Socialist Sharifistan wrote:Certain forms of hunting should also be prohibited by this.
"Hunting purely or primarily for pleasure that causes unnecessary suffering" should be included.

(OOC: Almost all hunting has already been explicitly allowed by prior legislation, so it would be illegal for this proposal to ban any forms thereof.
Slackertown wrote:This has so many holes in it, it's effectively useless.

I can’t see this having any loopholes in it. If anything, the legislation affects too many cases, rather than too few.)
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Mornicoder
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Founded: Dec 19, 2018
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Postby Mornicoder » Sat May 30, 2020 6:03 pm

Ancient Greek Empire wrote:ACKNOWLEDGING that sports such as bullfighting, cockfighting and dogfighting are popular amongst member nations;

Now, I'm not an expert in matters like these, but can you please give me the source where it says those above activities, especially cockfighting are popular amongst member nations. I am baffled at how the author of this resolution can make such a frivolous claim, and not back it up.
Ancient Greek Empire wrote:HORRIFIED that in most of these cases at least one of the participants in such competitions is forced to participate, usually resulting in their death or serious injury;

"forced to participate, usually resulting in their death or serious injury"
Ancient Greek Empire wrote:BELIEVING that, for the safety and protection of all sentient beings, legislation in the form of a General Assembly resolution is needed to prevent such cruel and barbaric practices;

"for the safety and protection of all sentient beings"

What is the definition of sentient beings in this particular resolution?
Ancient Greek Empire wrote:Hereby:

1. Defines a "blood sport" as a form of entertainment involving two or more living beings in which the aim is to injure or kill the opponent, not including hunting of non-sapient creatures;

2. Prohibits all forms of blood sports in which one or more of the participants did not provide consent;

3. Prohibits all forms of blood sports in which the aim is to kill the opponent, despite consent;

4. Requires member states to relocate all captive former sapient blood sport participants to a safe and healthy rehabilitative environment, such as their natural habitat, where they will not destroy the environment, be harmed or harm others;

5. Encourages member states to relocate all captive former non-sapient blood sport participants to a safe and healthy rehabilitative environment, such as their natural habitat, where they will not destroy the environment, be harmed or harm others;

6. Encourages members states to humanely put down non-sapient creatures groomed for blood sports if rehabilitation is not possible.


Overall, this resolution was poorly written, and at worst, this needs to be voted against, while at best, it needs to be repealed. This is why I am voting against this poorly-written resolution.
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Ancient Greek Empire
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Postby Ancient Greek Empire » Sat May 30, 2020 6:56 pm

Mornicoder wrote:"for the safety and protection of all sentient beings"

What is the definition of sentient beings in this particular resolution?


If it’s not mentioned, you use the dictionary definition

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Disgraces
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Disgraces » Sat May 30, 2020 7:56 pm

Mornicoder wrote:"for the safety and protection of all sentient beings"

What is the definition of sentient beings in this particular resolution?

It's pretty obvious it is talking about animals.
I use NS stats.

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Astrobolt
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Founded: Jul 30, 2019
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Postby Astrobolt » Sat May 30, 2020 8:00 pm

Mornicoder wrote:
Overall, this resolution was poorly written, and at worst, this needs to be voted against, while at best, it needs to be repealed. This is why I am voting against this poorly-written resolution.


"Care to explain why?"
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Honeydewistania
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Founded: Jun 09, 2017
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Postby Honeydewistania » Sat May 30, 2020 8:28 pm

Champagne Socialist Sharifistan wrote:Certain forms of hunting should also be prohibited by this.
"Hunting purely or primarily for pleasure that causes unnecessary suffering" should be included.

Unfortunately, all hunting is allowed under GA Resolution Sensible Limits on Hunting. In fact I added entertainment hunting to my last one but it was ruled illegal for contradiction. If you want to ban that you’d have to repeal Sensible Limits on Hunting first.
Disgraces wrote:Each and every one of you who voted against disgusts me.

I wouldn’t say that. There are many issues with this and I’m Glad people are voting against with reasons. If this fails or gets repealed, I have a replacement lined up to iron out some issues.
Slackertown wrote:This has so many holes in it, it's effectively useless.

How?
Christian Democrats wrote:The Most Holy and Grand Empire has voted against this proposal because it would effectively outlaw Spanish-style bullfighting. Bullfighting is not an international concern, and it's not clear to us that fighting bulls have a less dignified existence than cows that are turned into ground beef.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/is-bullfighting-cruel-what-i-learned-during-a-year-on-breeding-estates-a6783541.html

In matters such as these, where there are several reasonable opinions and where basic human rights or basic human morality is not involved, we think the World Assembly should defer judgment to individual member states.

That is true, however bulls in slaughterhouses are killed for food usually, while bullfighters kill for entertainment. Banning the beef industry would certainly be much more unpopular than this though.
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Groot
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Postby Groot » Sat May 30, 2020 9:51 pm

Ambassador Groot enters the voting chamber, carrying some kind of feathered, pot-bellied, one-meter-tall creature. The flightless being has a long, thin, sharp beak, and is wearing a silk robe. "I am Groot," says Groot, as he addresses the author of the proposal. The bird-like creature begins to squawk a high-pitched, warbling, rather annoying squawk, and begins to flap its tiny little wings violently. "I am Groot," says Groot calmly, wagging a finger-like branch at the creature, which calms it down somewhat. Groot strokes the creature's back to further placate it. Groot nods, then quietly announces his vote against the proposal: "I am Groot."
Last edited by Groot on Sat May 30, 2020 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Angelsnow Matriarchy
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Postby Angelsnow Matriarchy » Sat May 30, 2020 9:58 pm

The Angelsnow Matriarchy does not have bloodsports of these kinds in its territy, however we would not look upon foreign influence to our cultural heritage kindly and so votes against this as many nations have a long history with "bloodsports" as it were and that is their right. At the core of the issue lies cultural identity and the WA does not have the right to deny the people their historical recreations regardless of the messy nature.

Bear in mind aswell that even in the roman arenas, not all participants were forced to be there and the people enjoyed the entertainment. we may not always understand different cultures but we should still respect them as long as they practise their cultures in their own borders.

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Il Borgia Vaticano
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Il Borgia Vaticano » Sat May 30, 2020 10:00 pm

"First the WA tries to interfere with how we promulgate laws, and now it insults our culture and my family directly. The corrida de toros is a national tradition of the Spanish Kingdom and favourite pastime for the more athletic members of this family. The bull is our symbol, our heritage. We will not allow you vile weaklings to deprive us of our honorable game."~Jose de Borja, Duke of Zaragoza
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Astrobolt
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Postby Astrobolt » Sat May 30, 2020 10:11 pm

Il Borgia Vaticano wrote:"First the WA tries to interfere with how we promulgate laws, and now it insults our culture and my family directly. The corrida de toros is a national tradition of the Spanish Kingdom and favourite pastime for the more athletic members of this family. The bull is our symbol, our heritage. We will not allow you vile weaklings to deprive us of our honorable game."~Jose de Borja, Duke of Zaragoza



"The use of tradition to justify cruel and barbaric acts disgusts me ambassador. Taking your argument to its extremes, the WA should never have banned slavery, as it would have 'insulted the culture and tradition' of many slave states." - Ambassador Tappe
Chief of WA Mission: Reede Tappe
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Heavens Reach
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Founded: May 08, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Heavens Reach » Sat May 30, 2020 10:57 pm

Il Borgia Vaticano wrote:"First the WA tries to interfere with how we promulgate laws, and now it insults our culture and my family directly. The corrida de toros is a national tradition of the Spanish Kingdom and favourite pastime for the more athletic members of this family. The bull is our symbol, our heritage. We will not allow you vile weaklings to deprive us of our honorable game."~Jose de Borja, Duke of Zaragoza


Ambassador, the only nations subject to WA laws are those who voluntarily enter into its adjudicatory body. The benefits, and the toll, of the WA are both mutual to all nations. Taking offense to the democratic process that has always underpinned the delegation of this body's laws is not likely to redress the grievances your nation might have. A well-laid objection might.

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Haoguo
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Founded: May 30, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Haoguo » Sat May 30, 2020 11:02 pm

Il Borgia Vaticano wrote:"First the WA tries to interfere with how we promulgate laws, and now it insults our culture and my family directly. The corrida de toros is a national tradition of the Spanish Kingdom and favourite pastime for the more athletic members of this family. The bull is our symbol, our heritage. We will not allow you vile weaklings to deprive us of our honorable game."~Jose de Borja, Duke of Zaragoza

Regional Chairman Fu Hongjie shakes his head.

“你说你喜欢牛,但是你喜欢杀它们。真好笑!”

He drops the microphone. His translator walks up to the podium.

“You claim to love bulls so much, yet you love to kill them. That’s funny!”

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Il Borgia Vaticano
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Il Borgia Vaticano » Sat May 30, 2020 11:30 pm

Astrobolt wrote:
Il Borgia Vaticano wrote:"First the WA tries to interfere with how we promulgate laws, and now it insults our culture and my family directly. The corrida de toros is a national tradition of the Spanish Kingdom and favourite pastime for the more athletic members of this family. The bull is our symbol, our heritage. We will not allow you vile weaklings to deprive us of our honorable game."~Jose de Borja, Duke of Zaragoza



"The use of tradition to justify cruel and barbaric acts disgusts me ambassador. Taking your argument to its extremes, the WA should never have banned slavery, as it would have 'insulted the culture and tradition' of many slave states." - Ambassador Tappe


"Tradition is history, tradition is culture, and tradition is how we learn to move forward. To annihilate a peoples' history and culture is far more barbaric, Ambassador. As for human chattel, it is an economic system, not a tradition. Any state who defines itself by its peddling of human flesh is a failure...and often conmen who inflate prices on damaged goods...

Anyway, to answer the infidel from Haoguo, it is not irony. It is mutual respect. The corrida de toros is a dance of honor between man and beast. We spill their blood, and they spill ours. We sustain them, and they sustain us."~Jose de Borja, Duke of Zaragoza and Papal Claimnant as (anti)Pope Calixtus IV
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Honeydewistania
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Honeydewistania » Sat May 30, 2020 11:41 pm

Il Borgia Vaticano wrote:
Astrobolt wrote:

"The use of tradition to justify cruel and barbaric acts disgusts me ambassador. Taking your argument to its extremes, the WA should never have banned slavery, as it would have 'insulted the culture and tradition' of many slave states." - Ambassador Tappe


"Tradition is history, tradition is culture, and tradition is how we learn to move forward. To annihilate a peoples' history and culture is far more barbaric, Ambassador. As for human chattel, it is an economic system, not a tradition. Any state who defines itself by its peddling of human flesh is a failure...and often conmen who inflate prices on damaged goods...

Anyway, to answer the infidel from Haoguo, it is not irony. It is mutual respect. The corrida de toros is a dance of honor between man and beast. We spill their blood, and they spill ours. We sustain them, and they sustain us."~Jose de Borja, Duke of Zaragoza and Papal Claimnant as (anti)Pope Calixtus IV


How can forcing bulls to participate in a contest that they may or may not want to, and then end up killing them? And unless you base your culture solely on murdering animals for entertainment, getting rid of that part should not annihilate the entire history of your nation.
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Posts OOC unless marked otherwise.
Ambassador to the WA: Benji Hepperle

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Biggest acheivement: Spelling
GA#494 "Regulating Desalination"
GA#498 "Ban on Forced Blood Sports"
GA#502 Repeal "Freedom to Seek Medical Care II"

SC#315 "Commend Vippertooth33"

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Adriatican
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Founded: Feb 09, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Adriatican » Sun May 31, 2020 3:34 am

"Her Majesty, as well as the entirety of the Chancellory of the Federal Royalist Republic of Adriatican is concerned that the Honorable Delegate's proposal circumvents, and prevents, stricter legislation on this matter, should the legislatures of Member States, decide to create such.

Is this the case, and if not, how may the text be interpreted to articulate such?"
Last edited by Adriatican on Sun May 31, 2020 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Liberimery
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Founded: May 27, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Liberimery » Sun May 31, 2020 4:05 am

Groot wrote:Ambassador Groot enters the voting chamber, carrying some kind of feathered, pot-bellied, one-meter-tall creature. The flightless being has a long, thin, sharp beak, and is wearing a silk robe. "I am Groot," says Groot, as he addresses the author of the proposal. The bird-like creature begins to squawk a high-pitched, warbling, rather annoying squawk, and begins to flap its tiny little wings violently. "I am Groot," says Groot calmly, wagging a finger-like branch at the creature, which calms it down somewhat. Groot strokes the creature's back to further placate it. Groot nods, then quietly announces his vote against the proposal: "I am Groot."



“Well said, my friend! Well said,” The Ambassador from Liberimery cheers. Truly the wisest words ever uttered in these hallow halls!

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Kenmoria
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Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Sun May 31, 2020 4:40 am

Adriatican wrote:"Her Majesty, as well as the entirety of the Chancellory of the Federal Royalist Republic of Adriatican is concerned that the Honorable Delegate's proposal circumvents, and prevents, stricter legislation on this matter, should the legislatures of Member States, decide to create such.

Is this the case, and if not, how may the text be interpreted to articulate such?"

“This is not the case. Because the proposal does not allow or permit bloodsports to any extent in member nations, there would be no issue if a member state were to completely ban bloodsports in their entirety, or impose any restrictions up to this point. The lack of any clause in the text that would prohibit such restrictions implicitly allows them.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Adriatican
Envoy
 
Posts: 321
Founded: Feb 09, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Adriatican » Sun May 31, 2020 4:50 am

Kenmoria wrote:
Adriatican wrote:"Her Majesty, as well as the entirety of the Chancellory of the Federal Royalist Republic of Adriatican is concerned that the Honorable Delegate's proposal circumvents, and prevents, stricter legislation on this matter, should the legislatures of Member States, decide to create such.

Is this the case, and if not, how may the text be interpreted to articulate such?"

“This is not the case. Because the proposal does not allow or permit bloodsports to any extent in member nations, there would be no issue if a member state were to completely ban bloodsports in their entirety, or impose any restrictions up to this point. The lack of any clause in the text that would prohibit such restrictions implicitly allows them.”


"We thank the Honorable Delegate for their clarification. Additionally, we would express concern behind the seemingly narrow definition of "sentient" beings covered underneath the protections of this Resolution.

Adriatican is a nation of supremely advanced technology, and legally recognizes the personhood of artificial intelligences.

Though we may effectively amend this legislation to assure its protections apply to such intelligences within our jurisdictions, we would like to respectfully express our concerns that the Resolution cannot, in our opinion, be reasonably interpreted to provide its protections to Adriaris classified as A.I's, should they leave a jurisdiction where our broadening of the Resolution is not legally enforceable.

As such, we query how this may be remedied, if at all, through either additional W.A legislation, or some other means."
Last edited by Adriatican on Sun May 31, 2020 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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McMasterdonia
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby McMasterdonia » Sun May 31, 2020 7:12 am

The North Pacific's Ministry of World Assembly Affair's has issued a recommendation of AGAINST for this proposal. In line with the vote on our regional forum, I have also voted against.
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