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[PASSED] Supporting and Valuing the Humanities

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

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Imperium Anglorum
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Founded: Aug 26, 2013
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:35 pm

Ara, you really don't know how the committee-only rule works. It's applied not to clauses because they only engage with a committee, but to a resolution that only engages with a committee. The requirement that "Member nations must offer at least one area of the humanities as a subject of study per year in both primary and secondary curriculums of education" is a prima facie defence against any claim that the proposal is committee only, full stop.

Wondress, put your definitions at the top.

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Potted Plants United
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Postby Potted Plants United » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:39 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:Ara, you really don't know how the committee-only rule works.

OOC: So get off your high horse and actually do something to help newbie authors, if you think yourself the ultimate being who's never wrong. And there's still no reason to make a committee-focused resolution that doesn't even have a proper focus beyond "throw money at stuff".

Imperium Anglorum wrote:The requirement that "Member nations must offer at least one area of the humanities as a subject of study per year in both primary and secondary curriculums of education" is a prima facie defence against any claim that the proposal is committee only, full stop.

And if you'd actually bothered to read beyond the keywords, you'd have found that I pointed out that it's already basically done by Promotion of Basic Education - given the huge swathe of everything that the proposal author wants to include under their umbrella term. So it's "committee and duplication", and if you take out the duplication, it's committee only.

Now go be a rules lawyer somewhere else or instead of sniping at me, offer constructive help. Put your money where your mouth is, and all that.
Last edited by Potted Plants United on Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:41 pm

Potted Plants United wrote:
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Ara, you really don't know how the committee-only rule works.

OOC: So get off your high horse and actually do something to help newbie authors, if you think yourself the ultimate being who's never wrong. And there's still no reason to make a committee-focused resolution that doesn't even have a proper focus beyond "throw money at stuff".

OOC: That IA isnt acting is not an argument that your interpretation is correct. IA is right here.

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Castle Federation
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Postby Castle Federation » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:44 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:Ara, you really don't know how the committee-only rule works. It's applied not to clauses because they only engage with a committee, but to a resolution that only engages with a committee. The requirement that "Member nations must offer at least one area of the humanities as a subject of study per year in both primary and secondary curriculums of education" is a prima facie defence against any claim that the proposal is committee only, full stop.

Wondress, put your definitions at the top.

Thank you for your input, IA. When you say the top, do you mean the top of the proposal or the top of the operative clauses?
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Potted Plants United
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Postby Potted Plants United » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:46 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:*snip*

OOC: Because I kinda like you, I deleted what I wrote here first, but, again, rules lawyering is not helping to make a bad proposal a good proposal.
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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:46 pm

Castle Federation wrote:
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Ara, you really don't know how the committee-only rule works. It's applied not to clauses because they only engage with a committee, but to a resolution that only engages with a committee. The requirement that "Member nations must offer at least one area of the humanities as a subject of study per year in both primary and secondary curriculums of education" is a prima facie defence against any claim that the proposal is committee only, full stop.

Wondress, put your definitions at the top.

Thank you for your input, IA. When you say the top, do you mean the top of the proposal or the top of the operative clauses?

Ooc: traditionally, above operative clauses and below preamble clauses.

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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:47 pm

Castle Federation wrote:Thank you for your input, IA. When you say the top, do you mean the top of the proposal or the top of the operative clauses?

Top of the operative clauses in the first numbered clause is the current convention. If you use a statute-style thing (which the enacting formula seems to imply), then the standard formula for definitions is something like:

In this resolution: "blah" means house-cats of varying sizes, nuclear materials, and a superposition resolution mechanism.

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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:48 pm

Potted Plants United wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:*snip*

OOC: Because I kinda like you, I deleted what I wrote here first, but, again, rules lawyering is not helping to make a bad proposal a good proposal.

OOC: a legal proposal is better than an illegal proposal for a new player. Stating the correct interpretation is not rules lawyering. Rules lawyering is manipulating the rule set in bad faith. It isnt manipulation to state the rules as they are, nor is it bad faith to do so.

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Castle Federation
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Postby Castle Federation » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:52 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:
Castle Federation wrote:Thank you for your input, IA. When you say the top, do you mean the top of the proposal or the top of the operative clauses?

Top of the operative clauses in the first numbered clause is the current convention. If you use a statute-style thing (which the enacting formula seems to imply), then the standard formula for definitions is something like:

In this resolution: "blah" means house-cats of varying sizes, nuclear materials, and a superposition resolution mechanism.


Well I already reworked it as SP stated. I really don't know whose word to take so I just went with the member of the Secretariat.
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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:56 pm

Potted Plants United wrote:rules lawyering is not helping to make a bad proposal a good proposal.

Arguing that the ruleset is a certain way, in the face of obstinate determination to mislead new players as to what the ruleset requires is not rules lawyering. The committee rule works a certain way, and it is not how you described it. In the other proposal, the House of cards rule works a certain way and it is not how you described it.

It is better to offer no feedback than it is to offer false feedback that makes a player do a double take between that feedback and what they read in the ruleset. People are not blind: when they see me and other successful authors pass resolutions that cite other resolutions and work mostly with committees, they think that they can do those things too. When they hit a wall of opposition from someone who seems to know better than they do, they think it is either favouritism or enigmas that make their proposal "illegal". When people see such a bureaucratic web, they turn off and decide to leave (or start ranting about the WA elite).

If you are really interested in helping new players, you should familiarise yourself with how the rules work in 2020.



Castle Federation wrote:Well I already reworked it as SP stated. I really don't know whose word to take so I just went with the member of the Secretariat.

We described the same location.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Castle Federation
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Postby Castle Federation » Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:17 pm

I have been told that by focusing on the Humanities as well as not being more regulatory on the money that it may make the proposal harder to pass or easier to repeal. I was hoping to hear some feedback on this position.
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Maowi
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Postby Maowi » Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:39 pm

2. Member nations must offer at least one area of the humanities as a subject of study per year in both primary and secondary curriculums of education.

OOC: That phrasing makes it look like it doesn't affect private schools, so unless that's your intention I'd recommend rewording so that all primary and secondary schools in member nations, perhaps barring specialised schools such as science academies or whatever, must offer at least one area etc.
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Castle Federation
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Postby Castle Federation » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:09 pm

Maowi wrote:
2. Member nations must offer at least one area of the humanities as a subject of study per year in both primary and secondary curriculums of education.

OOC: That phrasing makes it look like it doesn't affect private schools, so unless that's your intention I'd recommend rewording so that all primary and secondary schools in member nations, perhaps barring specialised schools such as science academies or whatever, must offer at least one area etc.


Alrighty, I changed it to the following:

2. All educational institutions within member nations must offer at least one area of the humanities as a subject of study per year if a primary or secondary curriculum of education is offered.​
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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:54 am

(OOC: Clause five should have ‘is reported’ rather than ‘are reported’, since ‘use’ is singular.)
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Serbersia
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Postby Serbersia » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:02 am

Ambassador Spiridon finished reading through the proposal, placing it down, and turning to the Castle Federation Delegation, said. "Well, the concept is most excellent, however, I feel there are some places in which it would be improved. Firstly, let us consider the entire capitalisation of the words applauding, understanding, noting, and seeing. I recommend simply writing them normally. Additionally, I would cease putting 'and' at the end of the introductory clauses.

Furthermore, I do believe the author's intent would be better served by altering several clauses and combining some others. Chiefly among them the second clause. In the way in which I read it, it appears that this means that schools need only provide a single humanities course, and it need not even be a significant one as indicated by clause one. I would recommend increasing that to two and potentially including a requirement to teach a specific and important humanities class - this is, to say, you should define history, cultural studies, and language studies or another group of your choice as "critical humanities" and require at least one critical and at least one regular (which may include the critical courses) may be offered.

Furthermore, I would recommend writing in an exemption for schools altogether too poor to afford to be in compliance, as the GAO depends entirely on nations contributions, you cannot be sure all schools in need would be provided for enough to properly assure the education of students in such a field. This leads me to my next point: you should write in a clause to specifically direct funds towards underfunded schools in member nations for the purposes of creating humanities courses. There are also several small syntax errors in the writing.

My Delegation will have a full copy of your proposal with our exact alterations delivered to this afternoon. Godspeed.
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Kelssek
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Postby Kelssek » Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:48 pm

NOTING the historical heritage, importance, and influence of every field in the humanities on the development, understanding, and revolutionizing of ideas over time, and

That's simply grammar/typos. But I would also make the following stylistic suggestion for the preamble, simply because these are words and the tone more often seen in resolutions.

Recognizing the importance of education ...

Commending all people who...

Affirming the historical heritage...

Emphasizing the importance of the humanities humanities' importance...

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Castle Federation
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Postby Castle Federation » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:55 pm

Thank you all for your comments. I have adopted some of your suggestions. As to the way it is written with the "and's" and such this was formatted with the help of IA. This sort of format is mimicking the UN style of proposal where it forms one long statement. I would consider changing the all caps to just bolded words for the beginnings, but I would like more feedback on this change first.
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:00 am

IC post, unless marked otherwise.

Castle Federation wrote:Supporting and Valuing the Humanities

"Have you considered changing the name? This keeps reading as though you were talking about the different human species or races, instead of academic study areas. Maybe "Academic Support of Humanities" or something like that?"

UNDERSTANDING the importance of education in all forms and particularly the humanities, and

APPLAUDING all people who work and give their lives to the pursuit of knowledge and education in this unique area of study, and

"You do not need to end every single line with "and" - only really the penultimate clause of the entire proposal should end with that, with just commas or semicolons elsewhere. Also, these clauses are nonsense, given that the first one applies to everything under the sun, and the latter talks of a unique area of study while you're including half the sciences under your umbrella term."

NOTING the historical heritage, importance, and influence of every field in the humanities on the development, understanding, and revolutionizing of ideas over time, and

RECOGNIZING the importance of the humanities in the development of critical thinking skills, argumentation skills, and perspective taking,

"These are the core of your proposal, expand on them. What is the problem you're trying to solve? Why does it need international legislation to do? Why isn't it adequately addressed by existing educational resolutions?"

hereby enacts the following:

"Just using "hereby" on its own line works best as a divider between the preamble and the active clauses."

The following subjects are defined as areas of the humanities: History, Visual and Performing Arts, Philosophy, Religious Studies, Language Studies, Linguistics, Archaeology, Cultural Studies, Anthropology, Political Studies, Literature, and any other sociocultural area of study that works towards a better understanding of the cultural condition, and

"A better way to word this would be "Defines, for the purposes of this resolution, "humanities" as areas of sociocultural studies, which work towards a better understanding of sapiency and cultural constructs, including but not limited to history, philosophy, anthropology, political studies and literature" because that way you avoid the most common pitfall of being far too specific. A broad definition with examples given is better than specific list of narrow things and then a random vague addition. For example, separating history and archaeology makes no sense whatsoever, given that the latter is very much part of the former. That they are separate areas of study does not mean one was not a subset of the other. Same goes for language studies and linguistics, or cultural studies and anthropology. Also, there's no need for Randomly Capitalized Nouns."

All educational institutions within member nations must offer at least one area of the humanities as a subject of study per year if a primary or secondary curriculum of education is offered.​

"Does this actually do anything? "A subject of study" doesn't really mean anything. If you meant to say "as a subject" or "as a class" or "as a course" or similar, then you need to use more precise wording. So, now, please give me a concise answer on why you think GA #80, A Promotion of Basic Education does not already do this? Five of its eight required areas of study fall under your vast umbrella here."

The World Humanities Fund (WHF) is established under the management of the WA General Accounting Office.​ The WHF is an opt in service to which both national governments and non profit organizations which operate within member nations may submit applications.​ The WHF shall exist to provide funding to constituent nations and non profit organizations within them to accomplish either in part or in full the following objectives:​

  1. aid local communities in funding humanities courses for free or at a low fee to allow for greater accessibility outside of formal academic institutions,

  2. develop programs and initiatives that aid workers in finding secure jobs focused on the humanities,

  3. fund government initiatives that seek to further the research and development in various areas of the humanities nationally,

  4. support university degree programs that fall within the definition of the humanities,​

  5. strengthen the academic enrichment of courses and create electives at the secondary level of education on subjects within the humanities,​

  6. increase the offerings of exposure to the foundations of areas in the humanities at the primary level of education, and​

  7. hold nationwide symposiums to put on exposition works and advancements in the various areas of the humanities.​

[*] Within the WA General Accounting Office, the Department of External Auditors (DEA) is established with the following tasks:​

  1. ensuring that money accepted by nations or organizations from the WHF is used for the above established purpose and

  2. informing the GAO of incorrect use of funding.​

[*] If incorrect use of funds is reported, the GAO will cease the allowance of funds to the transgressing nation or organization.​ The decisions to cease funding by the GAO can be appealed by the nation or organization to the Independent Adjudicative Office. [/list]​

"It's never a good idea to make a committee the main aim of your resolution. After all, you're supposed to be mandating actions on the member nations themselves. Unlimited use of WA funds is never a good idea either, given that the funds come from all member nations, even the poorest ones. Let's see what you wanted to do and why it couldn't be done by the member nations themselves."

3. In the area of humanities studies, encourages member nations, to the best of their abilities, to
  1. aid local communities of learning in funding courses for free or at a low fee to allow for greater accessibility outside of formal academic institutions,

  2. develop programs and initiatives that aid workers in finding secure jobs focused on practical applications,

  3. fund government initiatives that seek to further the research and development in various areas of the humanities nationally,

  4. support university degree programs that fall within the definition of the humanities,

  5. strengthen the academic enrichment of courses and create elective school subjects at the secondary level of education on subjects within the humanities,​

  6. increase the offerings of exposure to the foundations of areas in the humanities at the primary level of education, and​

  7. hold nationwide symposiums to put on exposition on achievements, advancements and works and advancements in the various areas of the humanities study.​

"Changing the main clause to include your topic means not needing to repeat it in every single subclause. Also see the underlined bits as better wordings. Struck out bits are unnecessary. And given that you had written this whole thing as an opt-in thing even with the committee, making it an encouragement clause instead works just as fine. No committee needed! And since no committee is needed, no need to make mandates about WA money use. I would suggest, however, some kind of clause to add that "under pressing circumstances, including but not limited to severe natural disasters, widespread epidemics or war, member nations are allowed to temporarily suspend the requirements of clause three, to ensure the safety of their people first" or something similar, so that you're not trying to urge them to hold mass-gatherings in classrooms when people are supposed to keep distance from one another to avoid catching a deadly disease or because schools need to be closed down because large buildings are bombing targets to an enemy. Basically situations where lives would be risked for the sake of academic learning."

OOC: Am I finally getting through as per what I meant from the start?
Last edited by Araraukar on Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Castle Federation
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Postby Castle Federation » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:39 pm

I believe many of this critiques were already offered by Potted Plants United which I believe is a nation very closely related to yours. I understand that mandated action is an important and central to the GA. However, I also see it as important to enshrine in proposals that which we as an assembly prize and honor. The humanities as the used term is what the English language uses in order to refer to the area of studies I am mentioning. It isnt the sciences or the STEM fields we are dealing with here and this particular noun points to those fields that fall outside that area. The preamble is written as it is in order to start general and narrow overtime. It is basically saying that all education is good and important but in this instance we shall focus on the humanities specifically.

The formatting with the ands are all in accordance with the style that is called the UN Style I believe. IA helped me to make sure it was correct so I have no intention of altering that aspect of the formatting.

This proposal is much more about what we prize than it is about what we can force nations to do. I am well aware that the mandate is a broad one, and that is on purpose because that is not to be the focus or main purpose of this resolution.
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:34 am

Castle Federation wrote:I believe many of this critiques were already offered by Potted Plants United which I believe is a nation very closely related to yours.

OOC: If my TGs didn't make it obvious, look at PPU's forum signature. :P Is this reply in IC (your character talking) or OOC (you the player talking)? I'll reply in more depth later.

The formatting with the ands are all in accordance with the style that is called the UN Style I believe. IA helped me to make sure it was correct so I have no intention of altering that aspect of the formatting.

The UNnamed organization is not necessarily the best example. :P And even IA doesn't end everything with "and". (Unless he's recently changed his style when I haven't been looking.)
Last edited by Araraukar on Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Castle Federation
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Postby Castle Federation » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:03 pm

I'm always speaking OOC when I'm here, sorry for the confusion. I had added that point to my signature to let people know.
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Castle Federation
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Postby Castle Federation » Wed May 27, 2020 11:59 pm

Were there any more comments or suggestions?
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Thu May 28, 2020 12:41 am

We do not need a backup Big, Unwieldy Piece of WA to inform the GAO of nations using GAO funding improperly, especially when (for instance) GA#97 allows the WHA to reject funding for health systems of its own accord because the requesting member state has deliberately deprived their health services of funding. Here's my proposed rewording if you want it:
Image
World Humanities Fund
A resolution to promote funding and the development of education and the arts.
Category: Educational and Creativity
Area of Effect: Education
Proposed by: Castle Federation

Recognising the immense benefits that the various fields of the humanities can have in improving critical thinking, logical reasoning, and the ability to explain one's position on various issues, and

Seeking not only to recognise the past influence that the humanities and their scholars have wielded upon society, but also to ensure that further progress can be made by the humanities in these regards,

The General Assembly enacts as follows:
  1. For the purposes of this resolution, the "humanities" includes any sociocultural area of study that works towards a better understanding of the sapient condition; including, but not limited to, History, the Visual and Performing Arts, Philosophy, Religious Studies, Language Studies, Linguistics, Archaeology, Cultural Studies, Anthropology, Political Science, and Literature.
  2. There shall be established, under the aegis of the WA General Accounting Office, a World Humanities Fund (WHF), which shall dispense funds upon request to any government or non-profit organisation located within a member state for the sole purpose of funding one or more of the following:
    1. the establishment and development of humanities courses at primary, secondary and tertiary education,
    2. research and development pertinent to the humanities,
    3. programs to support members of the workforce find and obtain secure jobs in humanities-related fields,
    4. the subsidisation of classes, held within local communities beyond formal academic institutions at no or low cost to attendees, with the aim of increasing access to the humanities, and
    5. nationwide symposia and expositions pertinent to the various areas of the humanities.
  3. The WHF may prevent any entity from requesting funds from it in future, if it has a reasonable belief that said entity has abused the funds it has dispensed to that entity (including by using them for a purpose not enumerated in Article b). The affected entity may appeal the WHF's refusal to the Independent Adjudicative Office.
  4. Member states are required to offer at least one area of the humanities as a subject for study, whether on an elective or mandatory basis, in both their primary and secondary school curricula.
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Agualia
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Founded: Oct 20, 2019
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Postby Agualia » Fri May 29, 2020 7:22 am

Agualia would like to show its support towards this draft resolution. It is essential that the humanities are valued!
Agualia Ministry of Foreign Affairs - Ministério dos Negócios Estrangeiros de Agualia - Ministère des affaires étrangères de Agualia - Ministero dos Negoçios Extrageiros de Agualia
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Tinhampton
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Posts: 13701
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:15 am

Tinhampton wrote:Here's my proposed rewording if you want it

He didn't, obviously =P
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
The rest of my CV: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; *author of the most popular SC Res. ever; anti-NPO cabalist in good standing; 48yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate ~ currently reading The World by Simon Sebag Montefiore

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