NationStates

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:38 pm**

"Now that the proposal is in queue, full support."

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:17 pm**

Imperium Anglorum wrote:recipient bona fide means a natural person demonstrating a bona fide desire for a commodity or service,

Defining "bona fide" as "bona fide" is bold but perhaps not very useful.

But nevermind. I rise from my grave to lament what terrible sight I see before me now. The philosophy of bodily sovereignty which gave birth to the modern pro-choice movement never supported measures such as these. This law would entitle a fetus to a swift death at any stage of pregnancy for any or no reason at all (except if the reason were given as expressly based on sex-selection, which leads one to wonder why aborting based on race or disability is so acceptable).

There are limits on all our liberties that stem from our common obligation to consider the well-being of others. No nation in the world would consider such general and unnuanced provisions of law as I see in this proposal. This measure renders moot some legitimate social concerns for the treatment of the unborn. To what end? Would you also pass a law, in the name of personal sovereignty, requiring the government to provide every parent who wishes not to be so a gun and a bullet?

No nation in the world has laws like this. Gone is any accord to the subtleties and heart rending considerations that pervade this issue. The proponents of this measure are truly mad. Perhaps some anti-choice factions have driven them so by dogged resistance to reasonable abortion laws. But this is not a rational response.

I am pro-choice. I am a feminist. I am against this absurd law. There is a disconnect from reality evidenced here, and a tragic misunderstanding of the principles that gave life to the pro-choice view. I sincerely hope that the wisdom of the electorate defeats this measure.

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:35 pm**

Staypuftonia wrote:"You're missing the point here. If this resolution passes, then millions of innocent Staypuftonians, and millions of innocent people of other countries, would be killed just because it's "convenient", or "I don't want to have a baby", or "It's not financially right now", or "It was conceived from rape". The only reason an abortion should be allowed is if the baby would die."

“What about the health of the mother?”

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:45 pm**

Honeydewistania wrote:
Staypuftonia wrote:"You're missing the point here. If this resolution passes, then millions of innocent Staypuftonians, and millions of innocent people of other countries, would be killed just because it's "convenient", or "I don't want to have a baby", or "It's not financially right now", or "It was conceived from rape". The only reason an abortion should be allowed is if the baby would die."

“What about the health of the mother?”

“I believe that has been covered since GA #128, no?”

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:51 pm**

I just saw this a bit ago. It is ironic, needless to say, that a campaign that argues it is "democratic" is simultaneously propping up this resolution with NPA support. Needless to say, we continue to oppose this resolution.

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:59 pm**

"State-funded genocide will never be enacted in this Republic!"

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:59 pm**

Marxist Germany wrote:"State-funded genocide will never be enacted in this Republic!"

"Who's being genocided?"

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:01 pm**

Marxist Germany wrote:"State-funded genocide will never be enacted in this Republic!"

"May I ask, Ambassador, what it exactly is you mean by this?"

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:04 pm**

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:"State-funded genocide will never be enacted in this Republic!"

"Who's being genocided?"

"The German people."

Union of Sovereign States and Republics wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:"State-funded genocide will never be enacted in this Republic!"

"May I ask, Ambassador, what it exactly is you mean by this?"

"The provisions enacted in this diabolical piece of legislation facilitates the state-funded slaughter of millions for the sake of giving evil people the right to freely murder unborn humans."

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:05 pm**

"Mr.. Are you high?"

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:06 pm**

"Ambassador, I don't see any genocide happening here. Are you feeling well?"

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:09 pm**

Union of Sovereign States and Republics wrote:"Ambassador, I don't see any genocide happening here. Are you feeling well?"

Ambassador, I think they mean the impending genocide of the unborn.

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:10 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Union of Sovereign States and Republics wrote:"Ambassador, I don't see any genocide happening here. Are you feeling well?"

Ambassador, I think they mean the impending genocide of the unborn.

"You can not genocide something that is not living, Ambassador."

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:11 pm**

Union of Sovereign States and Republics wrote:"Ambassador, I don't see any genocide happening here. Are you feeling well?"

OOC: The USSR hand-waving a genocide? “Wait — I’ve seen this one!” :roll:

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:11 pm**

Union of Sovereign States and Republics wrote:
La xinga wrote:Ambassador, I think they mean the impending genocide of the unborn.

"You can not genocide something that is not living, Ambassador."

"I think a heartbeat and a soul means living, ambassador. If there is no soul, at least a heartbeat would be living, ambassador.

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:12 pm**

Fluvannia wrote:
Union of Sovereign States and Republics wrote:"Ambassador, I don't see any genocide happening here. Are you feeling well?"

OOC: The USSR hand-waving a genocide? “Wait — I’ve seen this one!” :roll:

OOC: You know this is a threadjack right?
IC: If the Mr. from Marxist Germany ardently believes that permitting women the free choice when to bear children poses such a demographic threat to his country's future, maybe he should reflect on why his TFR is below 0.1.

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:15 pm**

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Fluvannia wrote:
OOC: The USSR hand-waving a genocide? “Wait — I’ve seen this one!”

OOC: You know this is a threadjack right?
IC: If the Mr. from Marxist Germany ardently believes that permitting women the free choice when to bear children poses such a demographic threat to his country's future, maybe he should reflect on why his TFR is below 0.1.

Apologies, no tension-breaking in the future from me.

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:15 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Union of Sovereign States and Republics wrote:"You can not genocide something that is not living, Ambassador."

"I think a heartbeat and a soul means living, ambassador. If there is no soul, at least a heartbeat would be living, ambassador.

"A fetal heartbeat is not a heartbeat, Ambassador. It is just a flutter within the section where the heart of the fetus will form in the future - the future pacemaker, discharging electricity. The lungs of the fetus do not begin functioning until the third trimester, and the vernix does not shed until around 36 to 40 weeks into the pregnancy. If the baby can not live outside of its mother for a period of time, then is it truly correct to call it alive? After all, it's as good as dead if it's born 6 weeks into the pregnancy."

Fluvannia wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:OOC: You know this is a threadjack right?
IC: If the Mr. from Marxist Germany ardently believes that permitting women the free choice when to bear children poses such a demographic threat to his country's future, maybe he should reflect on why his TFR is below 0.1.

Apologies, no tension-breaking in the future from me.

OOC: 'Tis all good.

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:18 pm**

Union of Sovereign States and Republics wrote:
La xinga wrote:"I think a heartbeat and a soul means living, ambassador. If there is no soul, at least a heartbeat would be living, ambassador.

"A fetal heartbeat is not a heartbeat, Ambassador. It is just a flutter within the section where the heart of the fetus will form in the future - the future pacemaker, discharging electricity. The lungs of the fetus do not begin functioning until the third trimester, and the vernix does not shed until around 36 to 40 weeks into the pregnancy. If the baby can not live outside of its mother for a period of time, then is it truly correct to call it alive? After all, it's as good as dead if it's born 6 weeks into the pregnancy."

Fluvannia wrote:
Apologies, no tension-breaking in the future from me.

OOC: 'Tis all good.

"With all due respect, ambassador, is a person confined to a machine good as dead?"

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:21 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Union of Sovereign States and Republics wrote:"A fetal heartbeat is not a heartbeat, Ambassador. It is just a flutter within the section where the heart of the fetus will form in the future - the future pacemaker, discharging electricity. The lungs of the fetus do not begin functioning until the third trimester, and the vernix does not shed until around 36 to 40 weeks into the pregnancy. If the baby can not live outside of its mother for a period of time, then is it truly correct to call it alive? After all, it's as good as dead if it's born 6 weeks into the pregnancy."

OOC: 'Tis all good.

"With all due respect, ambassador, is a person confined to a machine good as dead?"

"If they can not live without it nor preform basic bodily functions? Yes."

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:22 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Union of Sovereign States and Republics wrote:"A fetal heartbeat is not a heartbeat, Ambassador. It is just a flutter within the section where the heart of the fetus will form in the future - the future pacemaker, discharging electricity. The lungs of the fetus do not begin functioning until the third trimester, and the vernix does not shed until around 36 to 40 weeks into the pregnancy. If the baby can not live outside of its mother for a period of time, then is it truly correct to call it alive? After all, it's as good as dead if it's born 6 weeks into the pregnancy."

OOC: 'Tis all good.

"With all due respect, ambassador, is a person confined to a machine good as dead?"

I mean if you have a Glasgow rating of 3 you are pretty much braindead.

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:22 pm**

Union of Sovereign States and Republics wrote:
La xinga wrote:"With all due respect, ambassador, is a person confined to a machine good as dead?"

"If they can not live without it nor preform basic bodily functions? Yes."

AMBASSADOR, that person could change someone's life. Yet, assume he/she's as good as dead?

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:28 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Union of Sovereign States and Republics wrote:"If they can not live without it nor preform basic bodily functions? Yes."

AMBASSADOR, that person could change someone's life. Yet, assume he/she's as good as dead?

"Not all change is good. Not all change is useful."

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:29 pm**

La xinga wrote:
Union of Sovereign States and Republics wrote:"A fetal heartbeat is not a heartbeat, Ambassador. It is just a flutter within the section where the heart of the fetus will form in the future - the future pacemaker, discharging electricity. The lungs of the fetus do not begin functioning until the third trimester, and the vernix does not shed until around 36 to 40 weeks into the pregnancy. If the baby can not live outside of its mother for a period of time, then is it truly correct to call it alive? After all, it's as good as dead if it's born 6 weeks into the pregnancy."

OOC: 'Tis all good.

"With all due respect, ambassador, is a person confined to a machine good as dead?"

"Technically, *I'M* confined to a machine. The important distinction here is whether the hypothetical individual you speak of retains their cognitive capacity. That distinction tends to be a major deciding factor in determining life or death, as we do employ the concept of brain-death in medical terminology on a routine basis."

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:32 pm**

Separatist Peoples wrote:
La xinga wrote:AMBASSADOR, that person could change someone's life. Yet, assume he/she's as good as dead?

"Not all change is good. Not all change is useful."

This is referring to good, sir.

Godular wrote:
La xinga wrote:"With all due respect, ambassador, is a person confined to a machine good as dead?"

"Technically, *I'M* confined to a machine. The important distinction here is whether the hypothetical individual you speak of retains their cognitive capacity. That distinction tends to be a major deciding factor in determining life or death, as we do employ the concept of brain-death in medical terminology on a routine basis."

The guy's not brain dead, sir.

NationStates

[PASSED] Access to Abortion