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[PASSED] Access to Abortion

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

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Sierra Lyricalia
Senator
 
Posts: 4343
Founded: Nov 29, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Thu May 21, 2020 6:02 pm

Stellonia wrote:
Astrobolt wrote:OOC: Would love to know the specific issues in the proposal.

OOC: Nations should not be compelled to legalize abortion, let alone pay for it. For me, and for many others, that is a sufficient reason to oppose this proposal.


OOC: This is a legit viewpoint, but the only possible response from the author is "OK, I'm going to try to pass it anyway." There are nations/players that oppose, inter alia, the WA's de facto ban on capital punishment; its insistence on strong intellectual property rights; for that matter its insistence on property rights in general as well as its arguably laissez faire stance on international trade; its insistence on leaving nuclear weapons in the hands of member states; and other long-standing political choices. In none of these cases does the losing side (several of which I am on, for the record) get so thoroughly worked up as when the GA does something to maintain or advance abortion rights. I'm all for every nation/player expressing its opinion freely, but once you've said "I oppose this in its entirety and there is nothing you can do to make it palatable," that's pretty much the end of discussion. The only place to go from there is the road to utter vitriol. If you have the numbers, you might convince the author that the opposition is numerous enough to make passing the resolution impossible; but past votes don't bear this out in this case. Therefore most possible further posts in opposition are superfluous at best, and inflammatory in far more cases. I would urge everyone to try to minimize both (one reason my posting in this thread has been minimal).
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Attempted Socialism
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1681
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Attempted Socialism » Thu May 21, 2020 6:38 pm

Stellonia wrote:
Astrobolt wrote:OOC: Would love to know the specific issues in the proposal.

OOC: Nations should not be compelled to legalize abortion, let alone pay for it. For me, and for many others, that is a sufficient reason to oppose this proposal.

Whereas I think those are some excellent reasons to support it. You said the proposal does not have merits; you list two clear merits and say those are your reasons for opposition. As a counterargument, this one is fairly poor. Now we're at an impasse and let the voters decide, right?


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Assume OOC unless otherwise indicated. My WA Authorship.
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Stellonia
Minister
 
Posts: 2160
Founded: Mar 29, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Stellonia » Thu May 21, 2020 6:50 pm

Attempted Socialism wrote:
Stellonia wrote:OOC: Nations should not be compelled to legalize abortion, let alone pay for it. For me, and for many others, that is a sufficient reason to oppose this proposal.

Whereas I think those are some excellent reasons to support it. You said the proposal does not have merits; you list two clear merits and say those are your reasons for opposition. As a counterargument, this one is fairly poor. Now we're at an impasse and let the voters decide, right?

As it stands, they are deciding against this proposal.

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Astrobolt
Diplomat
 
Posts: 508
Founded: Jul 30, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Astrobolt » Thu May 21, 2020 6:52 pm

Stellonia wrote:
Attempted Socialism wrote:Whereas I think those are some excellent reasons to support it. You said the proposal does not have merits; you list two clear merits and say those are your reasons for opposition. As a counterargument, this one is fairly poor. Now we're at an impasse and let the voters decide, right?

As it stands, they are deciding against this proposal.


OOC: The voters aren't deciding yet (and it looks like they won't get that chance).
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Stellonia
Minister
 
Posts: 2160
Founded: Mar 29, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Stellonia » Thu May 21, 2020 6:58 pm

Astrobolt wrote:
Stellonia wrote:As it stands, they are deciding against this proposal.

OOC: The voters aren't deciding yet (and it looks like they won't get that chance).

If by voters you mean everyone besides the delegates, then they will never get that chance. On any proposal.

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Tinhampton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13701
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Thu May 21, 2020 9:00 pm

This... isn't.

AS OF 0459 BST ON FRIDAY: Approvals: 74 out of 79 needed (Imperium Anglorum, Titanne, Aexnidaral, United Calanworie, Johanneslanden, Awesomeland012345, Candensia, McMasterdonia, Switzar, Zentata, Greater Cuba, Lord Plembington, Alcala-Cordel, One Small Island, Cyndorr, Nebrascotialandia, Versylle, Infernia, The Hellespont, Laurennia, SFR Philippines, Lauchenoiria, Nghymru, South Reinkalistan, Omniabstracta, Freedomanica, Dealeria, Unknown24, Savonian Socialists, Groot, Some People on Planet Arcadia, Golanchia, Foreignaid, ShrewLlamaLand, Wanarpu, Marrabuk, Takura, Dome Artan, Of NUGE, Ransium, Atheris, Etiennica, Aumeltopia, North East Somerset, Sorentia, The Proudhonnian Isles, Fdryden, Ukraniumstan, Smiley Bob, Angora Guanaco, Sutland rep, South Krimelski, Outer Alered, Setnei, Pure Blooded Whites, The Champlain, Toopaka, Roylaii, Eleuthernia, Drachmia, Skyrim And Nordic Peoples, Karteria, Nopengie, Marican, The Age of Utopia, Wadelhelpia, Kropotkinist Communes, Afarmania, Who Lives Who Dies Who Tells Your Story, Deathfall, The Flyin, Averra, Anarchist utopia lol, Not a Sleeper)
Last edited by Tinhampton on Thu May 21, 2020 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
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Stellonia
Minister
 
Posts: 2160
Founded: Mar 29, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Stellonia » Thu May 21, 2020 9:01 pm

Tinhampton wrote:This... isn't.

AS OF 0459 BST ON FRIDAY: Approvals: 74 out of 79 needed (Imperium Anglorum, Titanne, Aexnidaral, United Calanworie, Johanneslanden, Awesomeland012345, Candensia, McMasterdonia, Switzar, Zentata, Greater Cuba, Lord Plembington, Alcala-Cordel, One Small Island, Cyndorr, Nebrascotialandia, Versylle, Infernia, The Hellespont, Laurennia, SFR Philippines, Lauchenoiria, Nghymru, South Reinkalistan, Omniabstracta, Freedomanica, Dealeria, Unknown24, Savonian Socialists, Groot, Some People on Planet Arcadia, Golanchia, Foreignaid, ShrewLlamaLand, Wanarpu, Marrabuk, Takura, Dome Artan, Of NUGE, Ransium, Atheris, Etiennica, Aumeltopia, North East Somerset, Sorentia, The Proudhonnian Isles, Fdryden, Ukraniumstan, Smiley Bob, Angora Guanaco, Sutland rep, South Krimelski, Outer Alered, Setnei, Pure Blooded Whites, The Champlain, Toopaka, Roylaii, Eleuthernia, Drachmia, Skyrim And Nordic Peoples, Karteria, Nopengie, Marican, The Age of Utopia, Wadelhelpia, Kropotkinist Communes, Afarmania, Who Lives Who Dies Who Tells Your Story, Deathfall, The Flyin, Averra, Anarchist utopia lol, Not a Sleeper)

Best shit I've seen all week.

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Spode Humbled Minions
Envoy
 
Posts: 252
Founded: May 13, 2016
New York Times Democracy

Postby Spode Humbled Minions » Fri May 22, 2020 12:00 am

This bill has started a dumpster fire......

And I appreciate those who achieve their goals so quickly-

Support!
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Slaughter None
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 421
Founded: Apr 30, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Slaughter None » Fri May 22, 2020 2:54 am

Now conceding that I am a new nation, I find it extremely hilarious that some nations in this forum actually think that just because they have an opinion on this topic anybody else who doesn't share their opinion can (and should) be mocked and made fun of and therefore, make a proposal just to do the afformentioned .
Last edited by Slaughter None on Fri May 22, 2020 6:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Marxist Germany
Minister
 
Posts: 2171
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Marxist Germany » Fri May 22, 2020 3:03 am

OOC: Looks like this expired. Good riddance.
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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 16989
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Separatist Peoples » Fri May 22, 2020 3:12 am

Marxist Germany wrote:OOC: Looks like this expired. Good riddance.

Ooc: of course. At least 18 hours ago, IA saw some edits to be made and resolved to yank it before it went to vote.

His Worshipfulness, the Most Unscrupulous, Plainly Deceitful, Dissembling, Strategicly Calculating Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Kenmoria
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 7914
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kenmoria » Fri May 22, 2020 3:14 am

(OOC: It must have dropped 5 approvals just before the deadline closed. That’s unfortunate. IA, will there be another attempt.)
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Any posts that I make as GenSec will be clearly marked as such and OOC. Conversely, my IC ambassador in the General Assembly is Ambassador Fortier. I’m always happy to discuss ideas about proposals, particularly if grammar or wording are in issue. I am also Executive Deputy Minister for the WA Ministry of TNP.
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Tinhampton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13701
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Fri May 22, 2020 3:19 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:nations in which there does not exist—in the view of the IAO—adequate access to abortion

Something for IRL IA to think about for his next draft: Should this be the job of the IAO, a body which primarily exists to hold "evidentiary hearings for claims of noncompliance" by member states and decide fines accordingly (as opposed to some nice and fluffy civil-rightsy committee like the WACHR which has no defining mandate whatsoever)? As I recall, the job of my IRL country being accused of "gross and systematic violations of [human] rights" for prohibiting abortion in Northern Ireland was carried out by the UNnameable Organisation's Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women - not whatever their compliance division is.

Kenmoria is wrong: the correct figure is at least seven.
Sep is also wrong: I saw this proposal drop out of quorum naturally.
Last edited by Tinhampton on Fri May 22, 2020 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
The rest of my CV: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; *author of the most popular SC Res. ever; anti-NPO cabalist in good standing; 48yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate ~ currently reading The World by Simon Sebag Montefiore

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The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Fri May 22, 2020 3:19 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:OOC: Looks like this expired. Good riddance.

Ooc: of course. At least 18 hours ago, IA saw some edits to be made and resolved to yank it before it went to vote.

I have no doubt that it'll be resubmitted again soon.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 16989
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Separatist Peoples » Fri May 22, 2020 3:28 am

Tinhampton wrote:[

Kenmoria is wrong: the correct figure is at least seven.
Sep is also wrong: I saw this proposal drop out of quorum naturally.

Ooc: why on earth do you think there was no response to the bribery going on?

His Worshipfulness, the Most Unscrupulous, Plainly Deceitful, Dissembling, Strategicly Calculating Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Tinhampton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13701
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Fri May 22, 2020 4:01 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:Kenmoria is wrong: the correct figure is at least seven.
Sep is also wrong: I saw this proposal drop out of quorum naturally.

Ooc: why on earth do you think there was no response to the bribery going on?

Because you (general you) cannot send two campaign telegrams for the same proposal.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
The rest of my CV: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; *author of the most popular SC Res. ever; anti-NPO cabalist in good standing; 48yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate ~ currently reading The World by Simon Sebag Montefiore

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Aclion
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6249
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Aclion » Fri May 22, 2020 5:24 am

Godular wrote:
Aclion wrote:As you read it would be in violation of World Assembly Fund


"Hmm! Mayhap then a legality challenge would be in order?"
Nope. Because such an interpretation would depend on your illegal interpretation of the resolution. But reading isn't the only possible reading of the resolution. And when there are multiple ways to interpret a proposal we go by the rule abiding one, such as mine, which would not contradict WAF.
In short; the resolution is not illegal. You are just wrong.
A popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or, perhaps both. - James Madison.

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 16989
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Separatist Peoples » Fri May 22, 2020 6:33 am

Tinhampton wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:Ooc: why on earth do you think there was no response to the bribery going on?

Because you (general you) cannot send two campaign telegrams for the same proposal.

Ooc: there is no want of volunteers

His Worshipfulness, the Most Unscrupulous, Plainly Deceitful, Dissembling, Strategicly Calculating Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Champagne Socialist Sharifistan
Senator
 
Posts: 4471
Founded: Dec 08, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Champagne Socialist Sharifistan » Fri May 22, 2020 7:30 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:Because you (general you) cannot send two campaign telegrams for the same proposal.

Ooc: there is no want of volunteers

OOC:
Is this still an issue?
A nation which partly represents my views.
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The Turkish War of Independence and everything before along with 2014 modernisation are set in stone.
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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 16989
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Separatist Peoples » Fri May 22, 2020 8:38 am

Champagne Socialist Sharifistan wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:Ooc: there is no want of volunteers

OOC:
Is this still an issue?

Ooc: will this proposal be resubmitted? Likely, yes. After some additional editing, no doubt.

His Worshipfulness, the Most Unscrupulous, Plainly Deceitful, Dissembling, Strategicly Calculating Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

User avatar
Slaughter None
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 421
Founded: Apr 30, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Slaughter None » Fri May 22, 2020 8:45 am

Even if this proposal does get quorum, I don't think that this will pass because (arguably) this is a useless and unnecessary peice of legislation.

User avatar
The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Fri May 22, 2020 8:47 am

Slaughter none wrote:Even if this proposal does get quorum, I don't think that this will pass because (arguably) this is a useless and unnecessary peice of legislation.

*Squints*

...I don't see an argument in your post supporting that assertion.

*Squints really hard*

...nope, still don't see it.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Slaughter None
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 421
Founded: Apr 30, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Slaughter None » Fri May 22, 2020 9:01 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Slaughter none wrote:Even if this proposal does get quorum, I don't think that this will pass because (arguably) this is a useless and unnecessary peice of legislation.

*Squints*

...I don't see an argument in your post supporting that assertion.
*Squints really hard*

...nope, still don't see it.

Don't need to it has already been provided several times before.
Last edited by Slaughter None on Fri May 22, 2020 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Fri May 22, 2020 9:07 am

Slaughter none wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:*Squints*

...I don't see an argument in your post supporting that assertion.
*Squints really hard*

...nope, still don't see it.

Don't need to it has already been provided several times before.

Where? Certainly not by yourself in any case.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Slaughter None
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 421
Founded: Apr 30, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Slaughter None » Fri May 22, 2020 9:09 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Slaughter none wrote:Don't need to it has already been provided several times before.

Where? Certainly not by yourself in any case.

Not by me but arguments have been provided which you may or may agree with.

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