[PASSED] Access to Abortion

[Picairn]

Almost no resolutions have transition periods. Furthermore, if your people are so oppressed and your medical infrastructure so poor that your economy and healthcare institutions will collapse at requests for abortion services, then you're already probably violating several other healthcare resolutions.

"Collapse"? I said "overwhelmed", as in "crowded". While it has the possibility of leading to collapse, the most likely situation is that the government has to cut funding in other healthcare departments to cover the costs of abortion, which leads to longer wait times, decreased quality and more bureaucratic hassles in the face of new, increased demand.

Resources are scarce, even for developed nations with a big budget. Human needs and wants are unlimited but not tax money, which ironically will lead to an inflationary spiral if it is indeed unlimited.

[Godular]

"I don't know who this Bernie Sanders person is, but here in the World Assembly, there is no 'transitionary period' for any Resolutions. Once it passes, the WA Gnomes go into every nation that is a member of the World Assembly and forcibly alters their nation's laws to come into compliance with the Resolution. No ifs, ands or butts."

"Interesting. Do these WA Gnomes possess magic to create new infrastructure and equipment at will to help member nations coming into compliance, in this particular resolution? If that's the case then I retract all of my previous criticisms."

“There is a great deal about the World Assembly that defies the laws of physics. ‘S part of the reason I’m here, really. Figuring out how this stuff works.”

“Your claim of arbitrariness had little backup itself, as I recall. I already addressed certain scenarios that actually occur here among the species of the General Assembly where the delineation presented here is very much important. Setting a standard at all serves to eliminate confusion and conflict on the practical level, though thanks to you it certainly does not lack for verbal conflict.”

The state of a delineation as arbitrary is prima facie until a sufficient argument is made for why something ought to be, so you're asking us to argue a negative, and placing the onus of proof on the person not creating the claim, but nevertheless, you should revisit our very first response to this proposal, because we do explain why defining personhood at birth ought not to be done. And until an hour ago, you refused to even address this central part of our argument, so we'd like to remind you, ambassador, that "verbal conflict" is always a two way street -- though how long it persists depends in part on the good faith of the participants, and you have decidedly made every effort to argue in, say, a lazy manner. (And hand-waving is laziness)

“The thing is, I never particularly cared about the personhood argument. I simply noted you comment about decriminalization as a non-sequitur from multiple avenues. If you’ve such an issue with it, mayhap it might be considered as a basis for a repeal attempt in the future, should this proposal cone to pass.”

[Deanson]

I find the completely flippant nature with which this bill approaches abortion to be rather interesting and completely disegarding of many essential cultural values and the distinct nuances in law for many member nations regarding it. For example, while abortion is legal in most areas of Deanson, it is heavily regulated, with only 1st trimester abortions legal with exceptions regarding rape, deformity and threats to the mother's life. The idea that these would now be totally disregarded such that they have to be provided - completely for free - with no regard whatsoever to what specific stage of the pregnancy the women might be in nor the specific circumstances surrounding it is concerning. I also find the idea that nations should be forced to accept the death of unborn children - an extremely ambiguous issue and something that, for many people and from an arguably reasonable perspective, literally constitutes child murder - to be a gross overstepping of WA power with respect to its cultural influence.

[Picairn]

“There is a great deal about the World Assembly that defies the laws of physics. ‘S part of the reason I’m here, really. Figuring out how this stuff works.”

"I shall wait for the clarification from our GA Secretariats. Until then, my point still stands."

[Shazbotdom]

“Oh, that takes a load off my mind! All this time I thought those Oompa-Loompa looking things were a hallucination.”

"I did, too. Until I saw them when I wasn't high as a mother fucking kite." Antoine stated, looking down at the mushrooms he snuck in.

"Interesting. Do these WA Gnomes possess magic to create new infrastructure and equipment at will to help member nations coming into compliance, in this particular resolution? If that's the case then I retract all of my previous criticisms."

"No one knows. You may see them at times, but you rarely see them actually do their work in your nation. They are like Ninjas. Just don't attempt to poke one of their bellies, I had 3 aide's at one point in time, two fucked up and now I am down to one."

[Godular]

I find the completely flippant nature with which this bill approaches abortion to be rather interesting and completely disegarding of many essential cultural values and the distinct nuances in law for many member nations regarding it. For example, while abortion is legal in most areas of Deanson, it is heavily regulated, with only 1st trimester abortions legal with exceptions regarding rape, deformity and threats to the mother's life. The idea that these would now be totally disregarded such that they have to be provided - completely for free - with no regard whatsoever to what specific stage of the pregnancy the women might be in nor the specific circumstances surrounding it is concerning. I also find the idea that nations should be forced to accept the death of unborn children - an extremely ambiguous issue and something that, for many people and from an arguably reasonable perspective, literally constitutes child murder - to be a gross overstepping of WA power with respect to its cultural influence.

“If that is how your nation approaches abortion access, then it is already out of compliance in regards to other resolutions.”

[Godular]

“There is a great deal about the World Assembly that defies the laws of physics. ‘S part of the reason I’m here, really. Figuring out how this stuff works.”

"I shall wait for the clarification from our GA Secretariats. Until then, my point still stands."

“Who’s this Secretariat bunch you speak of?”

[Heavens Reach]

“The thing is, I never particularly cared about the personhood argument. I simply noted you comment about decriminalization as a non-sequitur from multiple avenues. If you’ve such an issue with it, mayhap it might be considered as a basis for a repeal attempt in the future, should this proposal cone to pass.”

As we have already established, it is certainly not a non-sequitur, but it's really not our concern whether or not you "particularly cared" about our personhood concerns. Also, we've already stated our intent to support a repeal and replacement that mostly preserves this legislation with the personhood delineation removed, but thanks for revisiting our options for us.

[Deanson]

I find the completely flippant nature with which this bill approaches abortion to be rather interesting and completely disegarding of many essential cultural values and the distinct nuances in law for many member nations regarding it. For example, while abortion is legal in most areas of Deanson, it is heavily regulated, with only 1st trimester abortions legal with exceptions regarding rape, deformity and threats to the mother's life. The idea that these would now be totally disregarded such that they have to be provided - completely for free - with no regard whatsoever to what specific stage of the pregnancy the women might be in nor the specific circumstances surrounding it is concerning. I also find the idea that nations should be forced to accept the death of unborn children - an extremely ambiguous issue and something that, for many people and from an arguably reasonable perspective, literally constitutes child murder - to be a gross overstepping of WA power with respect to its cultural influence.

“If that is how your nation approaches abortion access, then it is already out of compliance in regards to other resolutions.”

I imagine we shall be out of compliance with this as well.

[Godular]

“If that is how your nation approaches abortion access, then it is already out of compliance in regards to other resolutions.”

I imagine we shall be out of compliance with this as well.

“Not really, no.”

[Picairn]

"No one knows. You may see them at times, but you rarely see them actually do their work in your nation. They are like Ninjas. Just don't attempt to poke one of their bellies, I had 3 aide's at one point in time, two fucked up and now I am down to one."

"So we can't trust them then, given their tendency towards violence when touched and complete secrecy of their works. We would still have to put trust in our good ol' budget, which will be pushed to the brink of explosion with this proposal."

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

"No one knows. You may see them at times, but you rarely see them actually do their work in your nation. They are like Ninjas. Just don't attempt to poke one of their bellies, I had 3 aide's at one point in time, two fucked up and now I am down to one."

"So we can't trust them then, given their tendency towards violence when touched and complete secrecy of their works. We would still have to put trust in our good ol' budget, which will be pushed to the brink of explosion with this proposal."

So you have a GDP of less than $2/ppc.

[Picairn]

So you have a GDP of less than $2/ppc.

So you don't understand economics, or fiscal stability, or the laws of demand & supply, etc. at all.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

So you have a GDP of less than $2/ppc.

So you don't understand economics, or fiscal stability, or the laws of demand & supply, etc. at all.

Just how many tens of thousands of tons of misoprostol do you think you'll need?

[Deanson]

I imagine we shall be out of compliance with this as well.

“Not really, no.”

Are you implying the World Assembly is it all capable of actually enforcing this given the instant dissolution of all resolutions upon leaving it, which can be done at any time?

Of course, we respect it as a body and comply with those regulations which are reasonable. We have little reason to respect bills which seek to invoke such wide-sweeping and direct control with no legitimate basis.

[Picairn]

Just how many tens of thousands of tons of misoprostol do you think you'll need?

Did I say anything against contraceptives? If you have tens of thousands of tons of materials for new medical equipments and clinics for abortions, then good, I'll need some. Also some money for subsidising travel abortions.

[Shazbotdom]

"No one knows. You may see them at times, but you rarely see them actually do their work in your nation. They are like Ninjas. Just don't attempt to poke one of their bellies, I had 3 aide's at one point in time, two fucked up and now I am down to one."

"So we can't trust them then, given their tendency towards violence when touched and complete secrecy of their works. We would still have to put trust in our good ol' budget, which will be pushed to the brink of explosion with this proposal."

"You, see, the issue is that the GenSec rules in Legalities, not what you are wanting them to do. And if it reached Quarum with it going to a vote, then the GenSec ruled that it is a Legal Proposal. So I don't understand what you think that they are going to do that will benefit you, Ambassador." Ambassador Flabberghast stated into his microphone. "At this point in time, the only thing that will cause this Proposal to not become a Resolution is for you to put forth a Telegram Campaign to the membership of the General Assembly to get them to vote Nay on it. But seeing as the current tally of votes is 7,856 Aye's to 3,790 Nay's, it looks like that it is on track to pass. Although, you do have roughly 69 Hours to put together some sort of coherent Telegram Campaign to try and sway votes your way, and possibly get some of those Aye's to change their votes to Nay. Although, I will let you know, that the Empire will not change it's vote as we have already voted Aye."

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Just how many tens of thousands of tons of misoprostol do you think you'll need?

Did I say anything against contraceptives? If you have tens of thousands of tons of materials for new medical equipments and clinics for abortions, then good, I'll need some. Also some money for subsidising travel abortions.

OOC: You claim a GDPPC twice that of fricken Liechtenstein. Where the fuck is all that money going to? Bloody Monegasque casinos?

[Picairn]

"You, see, the issue is that the GenSec rules in Legalities, not what you are wanting them to do. And if it reached Quarum with it going to a vote, then the GenSec ruled that it is a Legal Proposal. So I don't understand what you think that they are going to do that will benefit you, Ambassador." Ambassador Flabberghast stated into his microphone. "At this point in time, the only thing that will cause this Proposal to not become a Resolution is for you to put forth a Telegram Campaign to the membership of the General Assembly to get them to vote Nay on it. But seeing as the current tally of votes is 7,856 Aye's to 3,790 Nay's, it looks like that it is on track to pass. Although, you do have roughly 69 Hours to put together some sort of coherent Telegram Campaign to try and sway votes your way, and possibly get some of those Aye's to change their votes to Nay. Although, I will let you know, that the Empire will not change it's vote as we have already voted Aye."

"The fact that GenSec has the final say in Legalities, or the little challenge that you just issued to me, Ambassador, is irrelevant to the current discussion. I see that you have failed to address any of my arguments, instead insisting on challenging me with a condescending tone. If you pride yourself on 'winning' debates instead of discussing in good faith, then I have nothing more to say to you."

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

OOC: Does the GenSec even exist IC?

[Picairn]

OOC: You claim a GDPPC twice that of fricken Liechtenstein. Where the fuck is all that money going to? Bloody Monegasque casinos?

Do you understand governance and budgets at all? Governments have a million things to do with a limited budget, from scientific research, environment, energy, social services to military, law and order, administration and a myriad of other things. The fact that you think I have a GDPPC of Liechtenstein just because I can't make free stuff out of thin air really says something.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

OOC:
>GDPPC twice of Liechtenstein
>Can't provide misoprostol, a 2 dollar drug on demand because "too expensive"
Hmm...

[Picairn]

OOC: >GDPPC twice of Liechtenstein
>Can't provide misoprostol on demand
Hmm...

>Fail to address any of my raised objections
>Constantly mischaracterizing my arguments with the image of a poor nation, despite the fact that even developed nations with a big budget are still struggling with spending
>Repeating the same personal attacks when challenged
Hmm...

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

OOC: The fact that you think a 2 dollar drug is "too expensive" while being twice as rich as the richest motherfuckers on the planet tells me that your argument is wholly spurious and that you are motivated by other things in your opposition.

[Picairn]

OOC: The fact that you think a 2 dollar drug is "too expensive" while being twice as rich as the richest motherfuckers on the planet tells me that your argument is wholly spurious and that you are motivated by other things in your opposition.

The fact that you are arguing on a mischaracterization of my arguments, when I have never claimed anything against contraceptives, tells me that you are here to stomp out all opposition with ideological dogma than arguing with good faith or reason.

It tells me that you are motivated by a close-minded view of the world and you prefer to stay in your echo chamber than addressing any of my objections.