[PASSED] Access to Abortion

[San Carlos Islands]

OOC: Why should the state pay for abortion and contraception but not stuff like kidney transplants?

OOC: I mean. If life begins at conception and the state paid for contraceptives; on net there would be less abortion, murder, what have you.

[Araraukar]

Abortion doesn’t mean waiting for years for someone with a compatible match or anything.

What does that have to do with anything??

OOC: You specifically mentioned organ transplants. Educate yourself.

[La Xinga]

What does that have to do with anything??

OOC: You specifically mentioned organ transplants. Educate yourself.
wat.

I didn't say anything, I gave an example, and NS is not the RL world, NS is much more Liberal.

OOC: Why should the state pay for abortion and contraception but not stuff like kidney transplants?

OOC: I don't know about abortion but the state should definitely pay for contraception, its benifits in preventing STDs and overpopulation definitely make it something any reasonably state should pay for.
Edit: plus contraception reduces the need for abortion.

OOC: I disagree with you, but that's not the point of GA.

OOC: Why should the state pay for abortion and contraception but not stuff like kidney transplants?

Ooc: if there was a big issue with states deliberately making kidney transplants too expensive to get, we likely would. That has not been a policy issue in the GA.

Then IA could have just made it mandatory less expensive, why should citizens who oppose it need to pay with their tax money for it?

[Separatist Peoples]

Then IA could have just made it mandatory less expensive, why should citizens who oppose it need to pay with their tax money for it?

Ooc: this has been tried elsewhere. Nations will just lower it by a penny and call it less expensive.

Objective prices are all but useless in the GA due to the meta gaming and game mechanics rules. Anything based on a subjective affordability question is subject to bad faith interpretation.

And, before you ask, many of the opponents to abortion in this thread have been very open with their willingness to interpret in bad faith both on this forum and on the GA Discord. There have been no such claims or efforts relative to other procedures.

Edit: it is perfectly fair to argue that nations not paying for abortions is a good policy. I'm not saying you need to be pro choice. I'm just explaining why the pro choice side determined that this measure is necessary.

[Araraukar]

OOC: You specifically mentioned organ transplants. Educate yourself.

wat.

I didn't say anything, I gave an example, and NS is not the RL world, NS is much more Liberal.

OOC: You specifically referenced kidney transplants - unless someone else got on your account and posted that - and the response to it that you didn't understand, about tissue typing and years of waiting on organ transplants, means that you don't understand organ transplants. You really shouldn't throw around references you do not understand.

Liberality has nothing to do with how organ transplants work. And abortion is no more comparable to organ transplants than a tooth being removed by a dentist is comparable to brain surgery.

[La Xinga]

Then IA could have just made it mandatory less expensive, why should citizens who oppose it need to pay with their tax money for it?

Ooc: this has been tried elsewhere. Nations will just lower it by a penny and call it less expensive.

Objective prices are all but useless in the GA due to the meta gaming and game mechanics rules. Anything based on a subjective affordability question is subject to bad faith interpretation.

If it ought to be legal, it could say a normal amount per their country.

And, before you ask, many of the opponents to abortion in this thread have been very open with their willingness to interpret in bad faith both on this forum and on the GA Discord. There have been no such claims or efforts relative to other procedures.

I'm unsure why this needs to be posted, I don't learn anything from it or understand it in general.

wat.

I didn't say anything, I gave an example, and NS is not the RL world, NS is much more Liberal.

OOC: You specifically referenced kidney transplants - unless someone else got on your account and posted that - and the response to it that you didn't understand, about tissue typing and years of waiting on organ transplants, means that you don't understand organ transplants. You really shouldn't throw around references you do not understand.

Liberality has nothing to do with how organ transplants work. And abortion is no more comparable than a tooth being removed by a dentist is comparable to brain surgery.

I said any random thing, what do YOU care what I post? Why should the state pay for abortion and not organ transplant?

[Draganisia]

Completely inappropriate. *** Warned for trolling. ***

Yea I might have overstepped there.

But to be honest trying to enforce this proposal on those who are fully against it would be even more inappropriate.

Wars have happened for less.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

I said any random thing, what do YOU care what I post? Why should the state pay for abortion and not organ transplant? :eyebrow:

OOC: What if the State should fund both? *thonking*

[Separatist Peoples]

[

If it ought to be legal, it could say a normal amount per their country.

Ooc: that would not be a satisfactory solution. If a nation raises the price to many millions of USD, that would be "normal" but unobtainable. Which is bad faith, since abortions are already legal in the GA.

And, before you ask, many of the opponents to abortion in this thread have been very open with their willingness to interpret in bad faith both on this forum and on the GA Discord. There have been no such claims or efforts relative to other procedures.

I'm unsure why this needs to be posted, I don't learn anything from it or understand it in general.

Somehow unsurprising.

Completely inappropriate. *** Warned for trolling. ***

Yea I might have overstepped there.

But to be honest trying to enforce this proposal on those who are fully against it would be even more inappropriate.

Wars have happened for less.

Ooc: I suppose the GA is inappropriate, since all resolutions do this.

[Staypuftonia]

"Opposed.

Only if the baby has a defect that may kill them should an abortion be allowed.

Otherwise, we shouldn't be allowing people to have abortions left and right.

I'm not going to allow abortion just because some person thinks it's convenient.

Use a condom then, you idiots.

Abortion will be illegal in Staypuftonia as long as I live."

[Separatist Peoples]

Opposed.

Only if the baby has a defect that may kill them should an abortion be allowed.

Otherwise, we shouldn't be allowing people to have abortions left and right.

I'm not going to allow abortion just because some person thinks it's convenient.

Use a condom then, you idiots.

Abortion will be illegal in Staypuftonia as long as I live.

Ooc: cool, but just so you know, the GA already legalized abortion on demand years ago. If you're not obeying GA law, why should we consider your input on GA law?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Opposed.

Only if the baby has a defect that may kill them should an abortion be allowed.

Otherwise, we shouldn't be allowing people to have abortions left and right.

I'm not going to allow abortion just because some person thinks it's convenient.

Use a condom then, you idiots.

Abortion will be illegal in Staypuftonia as long as I live.

Then you should quit the WA since the WA mandates legalisation and affordability.

[La Xinga]

I said any random thing, what do YOU care what I post? Why should the state pay for abortion and not organ transplant?

OOC: What if the State should fund both? *thonking*

OOC: What if the state should fund all healthcare stuff? *thonking more*

[

If it ought to be legal, it could say a normal amount per their country.

Ooc: that would not be a satisfactory solution. If a nation raises the price to many millions of USD, that would be "normal" but unobtainable. Which is bad faith, since abortions are already legal in the GA.

That would be a lie. Millions of USD is not normal. It's like if a resolution which made lollipops affordable and a nation made it 34907390471239047903479023479023479023479023742390479023472390479023479023 NSD and called it normal.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

OOC: What if the State should fund both? *thonking*

OOC: What if the state should fund all healthcare stuff? *thonking more*

Ooc: that would not be a satisfactory solution. If a nation raises the price to many millions of USD, that would be "normal" but unobtainable. Which is bad faith, since abortions are already legal in the GA.

That would be a lie. Millions of USD is not normal. It's like if a resolution which made lollipops affordable and a nation made it 34907390471239047903479023479023479023479023742390479023472390479023479023 NSD and called it normal.

OOC: What's "normal" anyway? Calling the ambulance in one nation may cost stupendous amounts for that one country but in other countries profiteering off emergency services may be viewed as deeply immoral.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: What if the State should fund both? *thonking*

OOC: What if the state should fund all healthcare stuff? *thonking more*

Ooc: that would not be a satisfactory solution. If a nation raises the price to many millions of USD, that would be "normal" but unobtainable. Which is bad faith, since abortions are already legal in the GA.

That would be a lie. Millions of USD is not normal. It's like if a resolution which made lollipops affordable and a nation made it 34907390471239047903479023479023479023479023742390479023472390479023479023 NSD and called it normal.

Ooc: it wouldn't be a lie. Your nation can be role played anyway you want. If you tell us abortions cost $10,000,000, we literally cannot say otherwise. We can be skeptic, but its godmodding for other players to tell you what your roleplay is.

I hope you see the issue.

[Staypuftonia]

"Why should we be forced to allow people to kill babies just because it's "convenient"?

Why should babies have to be killed because of them being the result of rape?

Why should babies be allowed to be killed just because they have Down syndrome?"

[Imperium Anglorum]

Quality in Health Services. viewtopic.php?p=2439131#p2439131

[La Xinga]

OOC: What if the state should fund all healthcare stuff? *thonking more*
That would be a lie. Millions of USD is not normal. It's like if a resolution which made lollipops affordable and a nation made it 34907390471239047903479023479023479023479023742390479023472390479023479023 NSD and called it normal.

Ooc: it wouldn't be a lie. Your nation can be role played anyway you want. If you tell us abortions cost $10,000,000, we literally cannot say otherwise. We can be skeptic, but its godmodding for other players to tell you what your roleplay is.

I hope you see the issue.

It may cost $10,000,000, but if the rest of stuff cost 2$, that's obviously not normal. It would be a break of WA leg.

[Staypuftonia]

"You're missing the point here. If this resolution passes, then millions of innocent Staypuftonians, and millions of innocent people of other countries, would be killed just because it's "convenient", or "I don't want to have a baby", or "It's not financially right now", or "It was conceived from rape". The only reason an abortion should be allowed is if the baby would die."

[Separatist Peoples]

"Why should we be forced to allow people to kill babies just because it's "convenient"?

Why should babies have to be killed because of them being the result of rape?

Why should babies be allowed to be killed just because they have Down syndrome?"

Ooc: if you want to ban abortion, you need to write a few repeals. This draft does not legalize abortion because other resolutions do that. As such, your concerns are off topic. You should read the GA Rules and the General Advice threads if you wish to repeal GAR#128 and GAR#286.

[Flying Eagles]

We are concerned this could jeopardise the lives of perfectly healthy fetuses.

[Separatist Peoples]

Ooc: it wouldn't be a lie. Your nation can be role played anyway you want. If you tell us abortions cost $10,000,000, we literally cannot say otherwise. We can be skeptic, but its godmodding for other players to tell you what your roleplay is.

I hope you see the issue.

It may cost $10,000,000, but if the rest of stuff cost 2$, that's obviously not normal. It would be a break of WA leg.

Ooc: you mean law? Ideally not, but some nations are willing to make some procedures very hard to obtain in order to also block abortion. That's why this proposal exists.

People smarter than you and I have tried to address similar issues in similar ways. They have failed.

[Norastan]

I can tell religious nations aren't gonna like this one, if this goes into vote and wins, expect a bunch of religious nations to leave the WA.

[Separatist Peoples]

"You're missing the point here. If this resolution passes, then millions of innocent Staypuftonians, and millions of innocent people of other countries, would be killed just because it's "convenient", or "I don't want to have a baby", or "It's not financially right now", or "It was conceived from rape". The only reason an abortion should be allowed is if the baby would die."

"No, ambassador, we are not missing the point. You were directed to the appropriate procedural avenue for your concern. This is not it. If Access to Abortion fails, abortion will still be legal."

[Separatist Peoples]

We are concerned this could jeopardise the lives of perfectly healthy fetuses.

"Only if the mother wishes to have an abortion, which is her right per prior WA law."