[PASSED] Access to Abortion

[Romextly]

I mean what about the nations who have no abortions. Does that force them to pay the people to leave the country?

[United Dependencies]

"That is my personal analysis and a fair reading, ambassador. I suspect you'd be hard pressed to argue otherwise."

Well Hon. ambassador, I don't disagree with your interpretation. However I do differ with your statement that you would be hard pressed to argue otherwise.

The plain language of section 4b says:

Clinics must provide ... free childcare to any address serviceable by post within a member...

We can see from the text that clinics are required to provide childcare and it is required that it be free. The only limitation stated in the section is that service be provided to someone who lives at an address serviceable by a nation's post office (i.e. within the borders of the nation).

It seems quite possible that such open ended language would require the provision of childcare on a longer, possibly indefinite, basis since the text itself does not provide any such limitation. While I do again reiterate my agreement with the Hon. Ambassador's reading of section 4b, I think there is a concern that higher judicial authorities may interpret the duties of the clinic in the way I just explained.

[United Dependencies]

I mean what about the nations who have no abortions. Does that force them to pay the people to leave the country?

World Assembly Resolution 128 requires WA member nations to provide abortions alreadyedit: prohibits WA member nations from outlawing abortions in certain circumstances.
viewtopic.php?p=4524923#p4524923

[Separatist Peoples]

"That is my personal analysis and a fair reading, ambassador. I suspect you'd be hard pressed to argue otherwise."

Well Hon. ambassador, I don't disagree with your interpretation. However I do differ with your statement that you would be hard pressed to argue otherwise.

The plain language of section 4b says:

Clinics must provide ... free childcare to any address serviceable by post within a member...

We can see from the text that clinics are required to provide childcare and it is required that it be free. The only limitation stated in the section is that service be provided to someone who lives at an address serviceable by a nation's post office (i.e. within the borders of the nation).

It seems quite possible that such open ended language would require the provision of childcare on a longer, possibly indefinite, basis since the text itself does not provide any such limitation. While I do again reiterate my agreement with the Hon. Ambassador's reading of section 4b, I think there is a concern that higher judicial authorities may interpret the duties of the clinic in the way I just explained.

"I agree that some authorities may do so. But I do not think a differing interpretation would be in bad faith. Thus, ambassador, I think you may so interpret, but are not nececcarily obligated to do so."

[The New California Republic]

Status: Quorum Reached: In Queue

Congrats.

[Ardiveds]

OOC: Been reading the whole thread for last couple days. Truely the gift that keeps on giving. And since this is in queue...
IC: "Abortion has been legal in Ardiveds long before any resolution regarding it existed. Abortion after foetal viability remains controversial even in our nation but our issue with this resolution is that we simply do not see it as being important enough to warrant making it free for everyone. It's already affordable enough that the vast majority of our citizens can access it without much trouble and this will probably warrant a tax increase, which I'm sure our citizens don't want. We stand Opposed."
--- Kaiser

[Wallenburg]

OOC: Been reading the whole thread for last couple days. Truely the gift that keeps on giving. And since this is in queue...
IC: "Abortion has been legal in Ardiveds long before any resolution regarding it existed. Abortion after foetal viability remains controversial even in our nation but our issue with this resolution is that we simply do not see it as being important enough to warrant making it free for everyone. It's already affordable enough that the vast majority of our citizens can access it without much trouble and this will probably warrant a tax increase, which I'm sure our citizens don't want. We stand Opposed."
--- Kaiser

"The funding mechanism for this draws revenue as an inverse function to the availability of abortion services in member states. If abortion truly is easily accessible in your nation, you will not see much impact."

[Ardiveds]

...

"The funding mechanism for this draws revenue as an inverse function to the availability of abortion services in member states. If abortion truly is easily accessible in your nation, you will not see much impact."

"Ambassador, would you please elaborate on what you said?"

[Slaughter None]

OOC:Abortion was already legal but now the nations also have to pay for it??. This Proposal is only a way to spite and make fun of the Pro Life people in the forum, Completely and utterly opposed.

[Kenmoria]

"The funding mechanism for this draws revenue as an inverse function to the availability of abortion services in member states. If abortion truly is easily accessible in your nation, you will not see much impact."

"Ambassador, would you please elaborate on what you said?"

“If I may clarify for the ambassador, the proposal requires member nations to provide abortion services to individuals. If there are already numerous ways to acquire an abortion and such ways are easily accessible, then the member state will have already provided such services. It is only in the eventuality that abortions are not easily accessible that member states will be forced to fund alternatives.”

[Logon]

OOC:Abortion was already legal but now the nations also have to pay for it??. This Proposal is only a way to spite and make fun of the Pro Life people in the forum, Completely and utterly opposed.

They openly admitted this is just to spite the pro-life crowd.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1375523

[Ardiveds]

"Ambassador, would you please elaborate on what you said?"

“If I may clarify for the ambassador, the proposal requires member nations to provide abortion services to individuals. If there are already numerous ways to acquire an abortion and such ways are easily accessible, then the member state will have already provided such services. It is only in the eventuality that abortions are not easily accessible that member states will be forced to fund alternatives.”

"While abortion in Ardiveds is indeed quite accessible and affordable, the relatively little expenditure that one must currently make does help to keep the need for government subsidies at a minimum. Making it free will still incur costs, no matter how little, that the government can only cover through additional taxes. Now if it was for something like free treatment of fatal illnesses, we'd be all over it, but its not."

[Attempted Socialism]

OOC:Abortion was already legal but now the nations also have to pay for it??. This Proposal is only a way to spite and make fun of the Pro Life people in the forum, Completely and utterly opposed.

They openly admitted this is just to spite the pro-life crowd.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1375523

"You are making connections that do not exist. Instead, is has consistently been the anti-choice delegations who has submitted repeals to spite the pro-choice nations."

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

They openly admitted this is just to spite the pro-life crowd.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1375523

"You are making connections that do not exist. Instead, is has consistently been the anti-choice delegations who has submitted repeals to spite the pro-choice nations."

"The pro-life delegates aren't the ones bragging about stuffing this idea in the other people's faces. Can you a case when the pro-lifers were spiteful?
All I can see is the anti-life kid killing SOBs forcing pro-life nations out"
-Abdullah Al-Afghani (random convict sentenced to serve as WA ambassador due to some content being too graphic for toddlers)
OOC: not in this case,
In this case it's to spite the pro-lifers

[Logon]

They openly admitted this is just to spite the pro-life crowd.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1375523

"You are making connections that do not exist. Instead, is has consistently been the anti-choice delegations who has submitted repeals to spite the pro-choice nations."

"You really are going to look at a resolution taken word for word from an ONION article, with screenshots of them saying "oh it's so fun to piss of the Christianity Brigade" and then try and tell me this is NOT an attempt to spite us?"

[Separatist Peoples]

"You are making connections that do not exist. Instead, is has consistently been the anti-choice delegations who has submitted repeals to spite the pro-choice nations."

"You really are going to look at a resolution taken word for word from an ONION article, with screenshots of them saying "oh it's so fun to piss of the Christianity Brigade" and then try and tell me this is NOT an attempt to spite us?"

Ooc: yep. It's easy to find connection when you're making them up. UM did us the favor of showing plenty of context: shitposting and joking. A year before MG's repeal attempt.

Such spite. Much motive. Wow.

Further, IA isnt even in that.

[Logon]

"You really are going to look at a resolution taken word for word from an ONION article, with screenshots of them saying "oh it's so fun to piss of the Christianity Brigade" and then try and tell me this is NOT an attempt to spite us?"

Ooc: yep. It's easy to find connection when you're making them up. UM did us the favor of showing plenty of context: shitposting and joking. A year before MG's repeal attempt.

Such spite. Much motive. Wow.

Further, IA isnt even in that.

OOC: Yeah that argument MIGHT hold up if it weren't for the fact that the entire resolution is lifted from a satirical website.

[United Massachusetts]

"You really are going to look at a resolution taken word for word from an ONION article, with screenshots of them saying "oh it's so fun to piss of the Christianity Brigade" and then try and tell me this is NOT an attempt to spite us?"

Ooc: yep. It's easy to find connection when you're making them up. UM did us the favor of showing plenty of context: shitposting and joking. A year before MG's repeal attempt.

Such spite. Much motive. Wow.

OOC: That this resolution was fundamentally borne out of insensitive joking about a painful real-world situation is true. In fact, this same concept -- the very one IA used as a serious resolution until he realised it wouldn't gather support -- was first laid forth in the joke thread, giving credit to The Onion. And you in particular are on record as telling MG that this was "punishment." So yes, it is spite. Worse still, spite borne out of insensitivity.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

"You really are going to look at a resolution taken word for word from an ONION article, with screenshots of them saying "oh it's so fun to piss of the Christianity Brigade" and then try and tell me this is NOT an attempt to spite us?"

Ooc: yep. It's easy to find connection when you're making them up. UM did us the favor of showing plenty of context: shitposting and joking. A year before MG's repeal attempt.

Such spite. Much motive. Wow.

Further, IA isnt even in that.

OOC:
Why was it taken word for word from an Onion article then?

Also why not force classist states to fund life-saving stuff for the poor,
transphobic States to fund gender re-assignment etc.?
I feel there is a sinister obsession with abortion.
Explainable by hatred for people who have a slighty different definition of when life starts or possibly some kind of perversion.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

OOC:
And about embargoes: large empires (which might depend mostly on internal trade) and slaver-states (whose commerce is already non-compliant and highly lucrative) would be able to cope.

[Separatist Peoples]

Ooc: yep. It's easy to find connection when you're making them up. UM did us the favor of showing plenty of context: shitposting and joking. A year before MG's repeal attempt.

Such spite. Much motive. Wow.

OOC: That this resolution was fundamentally borne out of insensitive joking about a painful real-world situation is true. In fact, this same concept -- the very one IA used as a serious resolution until he realised it wouldn't gather support -- was first laid forth in the joke thread, giving credit to The Onion. And you in particular are on record as telling MG that this was "punishment." So yes, it is spite. Worse still, spite borne out of insensitivity.

Ooc: I'm not the author. My support is totally born of spite. IA's motives are not mine. I'm not terribly concerned with the insensitivity of disagreeing with you, all things considered.

Ooc: yep. It's easy to find connection when you're making them up. UM did us the favor of showing plenty of context: shitposting and joking. A year before MG's repeal attempt.

Such spite. Much motive. Wow.

Further, IA isnt even in that.

OOC: Yeah that argument MIGHT hold up if it weren't for the fact that the entire resolution is lifted from a satirical website.

Ooc: except it isnt. You'd be hard pressed to take the submitted draft and find useful comparisons.

Ooc: yep. It's easy to find connection when you're making them up. UM did us the favor of showing plenty of context: shitposting and joking. A year before MG's repeal attempt.

Such spite. Much motive. Wow.

Further, IA isnt even in that.

OOC:
Why was it taken word for word from an Onion article then?

Also why not force classist states to fund life-saving stuff for the poor,
transphobic States to fund gender re-assignment etc.?
I feel there is a sinister obsession with abortion.
Explainable by hatred for people who have a slighty different definition of when life starts or possibly some kind of perversion.

Ooc: because states are already obligated to provide transgender-related healthcare and a minimum standard of living. This is a tired excuse born of ignorance that categorically fails to cow me.

OOC:
And about embargoes: large empires (which might depend mostly on internal trade) and slaver-states (whose commerce is already non-compliant and highly lucrative) would be able to cope.

That nations may survive embargoes does not mean they are readily ignored.

[Logon]

https://imgur.com/a/1L08Xyp

This entire argument in a nutshell. The delusional anti-lifers arguing against clear facts with mental gymnastics.

[Logon]

Ooc: except it isnt. You'd be hard pressed to take the submitted draft and find useful comparisons.

I present to you: https://www.theonion.com/planned-parent ... 1819572640

This article, published 5/18/11 on the Onion (a satirical website for those who don't know) details a Planned Parenthood "abortionplex" featuring bars, shops, and a lazy river.

This resolution was clearly taken from the Onion, ironic as this article was making fun of anti-life/pro-death extremism.

[Separatist Peoples]

Ooc: except it isnt. You'd be hard pressed to take the submitted draft and find useful comparisons.

I present to you: https://www.theonion.com/planned-parent ... 1819572640

This article, published 5/18/11 on the Onion (a satirical website for those who don't know) details a Planned Parenthood "abortionplex" featuring bars, shops, and a lazy river.

This resolution was clearly taken from the Onion, ironic as this article was making fun of anti-life/pro-death extremism.

Ooc: there are no references to Lazy Rivers in the submitted proposal. Or the other details. Even assuming that the first iteration was a joke, that does not mean the current iteration is. This sounds an awful lot like a genetic fallacy.

[The New California Republic]

Ooc: except it isnt. You'd be hard pressed to take the submitted draft and find useful comparisons.

I present to you: https://www.theonion.com/planned-parent ... 1819572640

This article, published 5/18/11 on the Onion (a satirical website for those who don't know) details a Planned Parenthood "abortionplex" featuring bars, shops, and a lazy river.

This resolution was clearly taken from the Onion, ironic as this article was making fun of anti-life/pro-death extremism.

Note the part I highlighted for you. See it?