[PASSED] Access to Abortion

[Kenmoria]

OOC: Fair, but if one argues that abortion is wrong, that (indirectly) that would also be an argument that expaning access to abortion (which is what the proposal does) or even forcing a state to pay for them is wrong. The reference to dictionaries was indeed OOC.

The proposal is making states pay for abortion? Why?

(OOC: Otherwise, those who can’t afford payment would be unable to producer an abortion. That would make wealth a discriminant in who is able to access this medical procedure.)

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

The proposal is making states pay for abortion? Why?

(OOC: Otherwise, those who can’t afford payment would be unable to producer an abortion. That would make wealth a discriminant in who is able to access this medical procedure.)

OOC: why abortion in particular?
Not a general healthcare bill that includes under "healthcare" abortion?

The WA seeks to be pushing this as a power play.
If so they are failing miserably as many nations either leave or openly flout the rules.
WA sanctions still allow one to trade with non-member states.

[Separatist Peoples]

(OOC: Otherwise, those who can’t afford payment would be unable to producer an abortion. That would make wealth a discriminant in who is able to access this medical procedure.)

OOC: why abortion in particular?
Not a general healthcare bill that includes under "healthcare" abortion?

The WA seeks to be pushing this as a power play.
If so they are failing miserably as many nations either leave or openly flout the rules.
WA sanctions still allow one to trade with non-member states.

Ooc: because nobody tries to block other medical procedures so vociferously. The pro-choice majority has only ever responded to anti-choice efforts to circumvent WA law.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

OOC: why abortion in particular?
Not a general healthcare bill that includes under "healthcare" abortion?

The WA seeks to be pushing this as a power play.
If so they are failing miserably as many nations either leave or openly flout the rules.
WA sanctions still allow one to trade with non-member states.

Ooc: because nobody tries to block other medical procedures so vociferously. The pro-choice majority has only ever responded to anti-choice efforts to circumvent WA law.

OoC:
Look;
1) this will make people want to curb it more.
2.
Can you Name one issue as or more divisive that no accommodations were made for each side?
3. Capital punishment was a question successfully solved by compromise.
As such it isn't really debated here (the World Assembly) anymore.

What's more important "pro-choice" or anti-slavery?

"Pro-choice" or anti war crimes?

"Pro-choice" or anti-genocide?
Because nations have left over divisive laws allow them to do whatever they want.

Non-compliance is frequent on this issue anyway with non-compliant nations trading with non-members or other non-compliant nations and presumably hiding their money.
There is at least one nation I know where they can hide it, probably more.

[United Dependencies]

4. a. Members must arrange fully subsidised travel, for any recipient bona fide and one person of their choice, to receive care offered by such a clinic if one is not speedily accessible. No limitation, except to prohibit travel to nations in which there is an on-going armed conflict, may be placed by a member on a person's ability to travel to a clinic unless permitted by resolution.

ooc: So I take it the respective government must pay cab fare, gas cost, or provide a free bus/train ticket? If for instance, our nation maintains a robust public transit system, we would not be able to charge a fee to someone who claims that they're traveling to a medical clinic for the purpose of obtaining services related to this article?

4. b. Clinics must provide free contraceptives and free childcare to any address serviceable by post within a member as well as free care and counselling for expectant parents. It may also provide other services assigned to it by resolution.

ooc: How long does childcare have to be provided for?

[Stellonia]

-snip-

You yourself said that you would submit this proposal once a proposal to repeal RF was submitted. How am I supposed to interpret that?

[Godular]

-snip-

You yourself said that you would submit this proposal once a proposal to repeal RF was submitted. How am I supposed to interpret that?

"Probably as indicative of the threat that if ever Reproductive Freedoms were to be repealed, it would only be replaced by something even more extensive... like this!"

(using quotes because I'm not sure if the interplay between you two is OOC or not)

[Separatist Peoples]

Ooc: because nobody tries to block other medical procedures so vociferously. The pro-choice majority has only ever responded to anti-choice efforts to circumvent WA law.

OoC:
Look;
1) this will make people want to curb it more.
2.
Can you Name one issue as or more divisive that no accommodations were made for each side?
3. Capital punishment was a question successfully solved by compromise.
As such it isn't really debated here (the World Assembly) anymore.

What's more important "pro-choice" or anti-slavery?

"Pro-choice" or anti war crimes?

"Pro-choice" or anti-genocide?
Because nations have left over divisive laws allow them to do whatever they want.

Non-compliance is frequent on this issue anyway with non-compliant nations trading with non-members or other non-compliant nations and presumably hiding their money.
There is at least one nation I know where they can hide it, probably more.

Ooc: you're wrong on every front.

Capital punishment is procedurally impossible under WA law. Repeal attempts come up frequently. There was no compromise, as none was needed. Apparently.

Noncompliance is dealt with via the Administrative Compliance Act, which levies punitive fines if you dont comply and requires members embargo others if the fines are unpaid. It's a very big stick. Hiding money just tacks on worse penalties in the long run.

That an issue is divisive is not itself a reason to ignore it. If members wish to leave the WA, they are welcome to do so.

[Kenmoria]

4. a. Members must arrange fully subsidised travel, for any recipient bona fide and one person of their choice, to receive care offered by such a clinic if one is not speedily accessible. No limitation, except to prohibit travel to nations in which there is an on-going armed conflict, may be placed by a member on a person's ability to travel to a clinic unless permitted by resolution.

ooc: So I take it the respective government must pay cab fare, gas cost, or provide a free bus/train ticket? If for instance, our nation maintains a robust public transit system, we would not be able to charge a fee to someone who claims that they're traveling to a medical clinic for the purpose of obtaining services related to this article?

(OOC: That would only be correct if the clinic is not speedily accessible. Presumably, that would not be the case in a nation with a robust public transit system.

4. b. Clinics must provide free contraceptives and free childcare to any address serviceable by post within a member as well as free care and counselling for expectant parents. It may also provide other services assigned to it by resolution.

ooc: How long does childcare have to be provided for?

There isn’t any time period specified in the proposal, so this would be for a reasonable length of time. I recognise that this is quite vague, but 1 day wouldn’t be reasonable, and neither would 12 years.)

[Marxist Germany]

"Would this not contradict GA#17 that guarantees member-states the right to determine domestic taxation policy?"

[Imperium Anglorum]

You should read beyond the first 14 words of section 8 of GA 17.

[Pelacore]

Abortion kills innocent human children. If a country allows abortion without medical reasons, it is infringing on the basic right of humans to live.

[Separatist Peoples]

Abortion kills innocent human children. If a country allows abortion without medical reasons, it is infringing on the basic right of humans to live.

"That is certainly one perspective, ambassador. Unfortunately, whether abortion is legal is not at issue. The WA enshrined the right to on-demand abortions. This merely removes excessive barriers such as cost and logistics."

[United Dependencies]

(OOC: That would only be correct if the clinic is not speedily accessible. Presumably, that would not be the case in a nation with a robust public transit system.

Ok, that makes more sense. How does that interact with the last sentence of section 3 (funding)? It seems that that section requires that means of accessing services be both speedy and free.

ooc: How long does childcare have to be provided for?

There isn’t any time period specified in the proposal, so this would be for a reasonable length of time. I recognise that this is quite vague, but 1 day wouldn’t be reasonable, and neither would 12 years.)

Wait, are the clinics providing fulltime daycare on an extended basis here? That seems like the sort of provision that should get its own legislation. Also, shouldn't that potentially be done in a separate facility?

Maybe I'm misreading this section. I can understand making provisions for temporary/interim day care if mom is going to be at the clinic or otherwise unavailable for medical reasons long enough to warrant it, but this suggest otherwise?

[Separatist Peoples]

(OOC: That would only be correct if the clinic is not speedily accessible. Presumably, that would not be the case in a nation with a robust public transit system.

Ok, that makes more sense. How does that interact with the last sentence of section 3 (funding)? It seems that that section requires that means of accessing services be both speedy and free.

There isn’t any time period specified in the proposal, so this would be for a reasonable length of time. I recognise that this is quite vague, but 1 day wouldn’t be reasonable, and neither would 12 years.)

Wait, are the clinics providing fulltime daycare on an extended basis here? That seems like the sort of provision that should get its own legislation. Also, shouldn't that potentially be done in a separate facility?

Maybe I'm misreading this section. I can understand making provisions for temporary/interim day care if mom is going to be at the clinic or otherwise unavailable for medical reasons long enough to warrant it, but this suggest otherwise?

"You can elect to so interpret it, ambassador, but you would not be subject to punishment if you interpreted that requirement as temporary care for the duration of the appointment only."

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Abortion kills innocent human children. If a country allows abortion without medical reasons, it is infringing on the basic right of humans to live.

"That is certainly one perspective, ambassador. Unfortunately, whether abortion is legal is not at issue. The WA enshrined the right to on-demand abortions. This merely removes excessive barriers such as cost and logistics."

OOC:
Yes but it raises an issue (again) that would be better swept under the carpet.

Nations can leave but that's partly the point they do leave (or refuse to join) limiting the World Assembly's ability to do more important work.

Nations that leave would be free to have slavery or organise a genocide.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

"That is certainly one perspective, ambassador. Unfortunately, whether abortion is legal is not at issue. The WA enshrined the right to on-demand abortions. This merely removes excessive barriers such as cost and logistics."

OOC:
Yes but it raises an issue (again) that would be better swept under the carpet.

Nations can leave but that's partly the point they do leave (or refuse to join) limiting the World Assembly's ability to do more important work.

Nations that leave would be free to have slavery or organise a genocide.

Nations leaving over abortion being allowed and then instituting slavery or conducting a genocide would be at the forefront of hypocrisy. You can't claim to care about human life and then institute slavery.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

OOC:
Yes but it raises an issue (again) that would be better swept under the carpet.

Nations can leave but that's partly the point they do leave (or refuse to join) limiting the World Assembly's ability to do more important work.

Nations that leave would be free to have slavery or organise a genocide.

Nations leaving over abortion being allowed and then instituting slavery or conducting a genocide would be at the forefront of hypocrisy. You can't claim to care about human life and then institute slavery.

OOC: I agree but many people are hypocritical

[Separatist Peoples]

"That is certainly one perspective, ambassador. Unfortunately, whether abortion is legal is not at issue. The WA enshrined the right to on-demand abortions. This merely removes excessive barriers such as cost and logistics."

OOC:
Yes but it raises an issue (again) that would be better swept under the carpet.

Nations can leave but that's partly the point they do leave (or refuse to join) limiting the World Assembly's ability to do more important work.

Nations that leave would be free to have slavery or organise a genocide.

Ooc: nothing stops nations from leaving to commit genocide and slavery as it stands. Seems absurd that they'd start because of this.

The Wa is at an all time high of members even after a spectacular affirmation of the right to abort on demand. I think we're safe. Considering barely 25% of votes were in favor of a repeal, I'm not sure why we would need to avoid this issue? To placate a loud but small minority? Why?

[Tinhampton]

1.Definitions. In this resolution,
c. recipient bona fide means a natural person demonstrating a bona fide desire for a commodity or service...

4. Clinics. There shall be established regularly accessible clinics subsidised by WA Choice Plus [which] shall offer free, quick, easy, and safe abortions to any recipient bona fide...
a. Members must arrange fully subsidised travel, for any recipient bona fide and one person of their choice, to receive care offered by such a clinic if one is not speedily accessible. No limitation, except to prohibit travel to nations in which there is an on-going armed conflict, may be placed by a member on a person's ability to travel to a clinic unless permitted by resolution.

I really, really, reeeeeeeeeeeeeally want to buy an two-ounce gold bar*, which is a commodity, even though I don't need an abortion. Does that grant me the right to request that Imperium Anglorum schedules a flight for me and the bartender at my local pub to receive care from a WA Choice Plus clinic? The European Parliament saw through the Estrela report, I can only hope that the General Assembly can see through this poorly-repackaged attempt at establishing a slaniton of miniabortionplexes.

*OOC: this costs approximately GBP3,000

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

OOC:
Yes but it raises an issue (again) that would be better swept under the carpet.

Nations can leave but that's partly the point they do leave (or refuse to join) limiting the World Assembly's ability to do more important work.

Nations that leave would be free to have slavery or organise a genocide.

Ooc: nothing stops nations from leaving to commit genocide and slavery as it stands. Seems absurd that they'd start because of this.

The Wa is at an all time high of members even after a spectacular affirmation of the right to abort on demand. I think we're safe. Considering barely 25% of votes were in favor of a repeal, I'm not sure why we would need to avoid this issue? To placate a loud but small minority? Why?

OOC: because 20% is a significant minority.

[United Dependencies]

"You can elect to so interpret it, ambassador, but you would not be subject to punishment if you interpreted that requirement as temporary care for the duration of the appointment only."

Oh? Is that an official statement on the meaning of the words in the proposal?

[Separatist Peoples]

"You can elect to so interpret it, ambassador, but you would not be subject to punishment if you interpreted that requirement as temporary care for the duration of the appointment only."

Oh? Is that an official statement on the meaning of the words in the proposal?

"That is my personal analysis and a fair reading, ambassador. I suspect you'd be hard pressed to argue otherwise."

[Separatist Peoples]

Ooc: nothing stops nations from leaving to commit genocide and slavery as it stands. Seems absurd that they'd start because of this.

The Wa is at an all time high of members even after a spectacular affirmation of the right to abort on demand. I think we're safe. Considering barely 25% of votes were in favor of a repeal, I'm not sure why we would need to avoid this issue? To placate a loud but small minority? Why?

OOC: because 20% is a significant minority.

Ooc: it is. Its 30% less than the minimum threshold to pass something. It is insufficient to stop a supermajority.

[Imperium Anglorum]

Are you going as a recipient bona fide "to receive care offered by such a clinic if one is not speedily accessible"? No? Then that's your answer.