[PASSED] Access to Abortion

[Richonne]

Any citizen of Richonne who has an abortion will be prosecuted for murder regardless of where they have it.

[The New California Republic]

Any citizen of Richonne who has an abortion will be prosecuted for murder regardless of where they have it.

Since you are not a member of the World Assembly then it is totally irrelevant, as this proposal will not apply to you.

[Tarchuna and Ravenna]

That is the sole purpose.

In time you'll learn otherwise. (unless that's not your thing)

It has bearing. People should only have sex to reproduce.

Why?

Strikes me as a shitty idea to murder children because they are inconvenient. Why not allow people to abort children after they are born.

Multiple reasons, the primary one being that you don't abort children or, in more accurate terminology, fetuses. You abort pregnancies. Other reasons include it being unnecessary to kill a born child to protect the rights of its mother, killing born children being of little social utility, and killing born children being almost universally condemned in our society.

This is a role playing site is it not?

You have been posting OOC quite a lot. Mark your IC posts with "parentheses" or, better, with the letters IC.

The cutoff point is before seven weeks.

Do you know how painful it is for the baby after seven weeks? They are torn apart, limb by limb!

[The New California Republic]

The cutoff point is before seven weeks.

Do you know how painful it is for the baby after seven weeks? They are torn apart, limb by limb!

Wrong. It's actually about 28 weeks, give or take a couple, that the nervous system is sufficiently developed for sensation to be possible.

[Richonne]

Any citizen of Richonne who has an abortion will be prosecuted for murder regardless of where they have it.

Since you are not a member of the World Assembly then it is totally irrelevant, as this proposal will not apply to you.

Good reason never to join as the World Assembly is full of moronic shit.

[The New California Republic]

Since you are not a member of the World Assembly then it is totally irrelevant, as this proposal will not apply to you.

Good reason never to join as the World Assembly is full of moronic shit.

Then why are you here commenting on this proposal then? If you have no intention of joining then I really don't see the point.

[Tarchuna and Ravenna]

The cutoff point is before seven weeks.

Do you know how painful it is for the baby after seven weeks? They are torn apart, limb by limb!

Wrong. It's actually about 28 weeks, give or take a couple, that the nervous system is sufficiently developed for sensation to be possible.

Source?

The brain starts developing at 7 weeks. At that point, you’re killing an organism. Pain kicks in at 8 weeks.

https://www.liveaction.org/news/researc ... y-8-weeks/

[The New California Republic]

Wrong. It's actually about 28 weeks, give or take a couple, that the nervous system is sufficiently developed for sensation to be possible.

Source?

This isn't the abortion thread, those sorts of discussions involving providing sources for claims really don't belong here.

But if you insist:

"The science shows that based on gestational age, the fetus is not capable of feeling pain until the third trimester," said Kate Connors, a spokesperson for ACOG. The third trimester begins at about 27 weeks of pregnancy.

https://www.livescience.com/54774-fetal ... hesia.html

[The New Sicilian State]

Good reason never to join as the World Assembly is full of moronic shit.

Then why are you here commenting on this proposal then? If you have no intention of joining then I really don't see the point.

OOC: It's really trolling at this point.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Good reason never to join as the World Assembly is full of moronic shit.

Then why are you here commenting on this proposal then? If you have no intention of joining then I really don't see the point.

These halls have never been the sole domain of member states, Ambassador.

[The New California Republic]

Then why are you here commenting on this proposal then? If you have no intention of joining then I really don't see the point.

These halls have never been the sole domain of member states, Ambassador.

Indeed they haven't, but I don't see why they are making a fuss about it as if it is going to apply to their nation, as it clearly isn't.

[Slackertown]

Source?

This isn't the abortion thread, those sorts of discussions involving providing sources for claims really don't belong here.

But if you insist:

"The science shows that based on gestational age, the fetus is not capable of feeling pain until the third trimester," said Kate Connors, a spokesperson for ACOG. The third trimester begins at about 27 weeks of pregnancy.

https://www.livescience.com/54774-fetal ... hesia.html

That's why, before we murder people, we give them a shot of a numbing agent. After all, as long as they can't feel pain there is no moral reason not to take a life.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

"Why is a slaver here?"

[Separatist Peoples]

Any citizen of Richonne who has an abortion will be prosecuted for murder regardless of where they have it.

"If you arent a member state, nobody cares. Begone, orc!"

[The New California Republic]

That's why, before we murder people, we give them a shot of a numbing agent. After all, as long as they can't feel pain there is no moral reason not to take a life.

Strange, as it was Tarchuna and Ravenna that started using the pain argument, so ask them about it if you want clarification on that aspect.

[Araraukar]

Clinics. There shall be established regularly accessible clinics, funded by contributions assessed by the GAO, to offer quick, easy, and safe abortions to any willing recipient. All members shall contribute in proportion of use, to the GAO for this purpose.

OOC: ...so any nation that already offers free and safe abortions to people wanting them, can ignore this thing entirely? That's fine then. (Based on "in proportion of use". If you can get abortion in your own healthcare center without needing to travel to a poxy foreign nation, no reasonable person is going to want to travel to begin with, hence proportion of use is zero and thus also participation.)

Also, since abortifacients are not defined (yes, I know what the word means, I mean it's not defined here, which means that, for example, they don't need to be ones that don't also make you unable to get pregnant again later - and no, clause 7 does not forbid that), they create a loophole that at least Araraukar is all too happy to exploit, to avoid certain other legislation about to be passed...

But more seriously, going to still be voting against, because of clause 8. Weaselwording like that is setting a bad example to all the newbies who've recently come to NS. EDIT: Reason why: the opposition is going to start pushing through one that has the same clause but which bans abortion, instead, just watch.

[Attempted Socialism]

Clinics. There shall be established regularly accessible clinics, funded by contributions assessed by the GAO, to offer quick, easy, and safe abortions to any willing recipient. All members shall contribute in proportion of use, to the GAO for this purpose.

OOC: ...so any nation that already offers free and safe abortions to people wanting them, can ignore this thing entirely? That's fine then. (Based on "in proportion of use". If you can get abortion in your own healthcare center without needing to travel to a poxy foreign nation, no reasonable person is going to want to travel to begin with, hence proportion of use is zero and thus also participation.)

Yes. Essentially, any reasonable nation can keep their system with low costs and not paying for unnecessary travel arrangements. Anti-choice nations have the options of setting up actual clinics that turn them into effectively pro-choice nations, or pay exorbitant prices for their populace's use of these newly set-up clinics (Exorbitant because you're paying extra for everything; extra long travel, then the abortion itself, any long-distance-related costs such as hotels, and clinics that are likely not as market-efficient as the ones already in existence).

[Imperium Anglorum]

OOC: ...so any nation that already offers free and safe abortions to people wanting them, can ignore this thing entirely? That's fine then. (Based on "in proportion of use". If you can get abortion in your own healthcare center without needing to travel to a poxy foreign nation, no reasonable person is going to want to travel to begin with, hence proportion of use is zero and thus also participation.)

Cool. You were able to find the point.

Also, since abortifacients are not defined (yes, I know what the word means, I mean it's not defined here, which means that, for example, they don't need to be ones that don't also make you unable to get pregnant again later - and no, clause 7 does not forbid that), they create a loophole that at least Araraukar is all too happy to exploit, to avoid certain other legislation about to be passed...

If you people want to write repeals with this honest mistake in it, let them.

But more seriously, going to still be voting against, because of clause 8. Weaselwording like that is setting a bad example to all the newbies who've recently come to NS. EDIT: Reason why: the opposition is going to start pushing through one that has the same clause but which bans abortion, instead, just watch.

Ship already sailed. See Ransium, GA 445 "Greenhouse Cap and Trade Program". As to the hypothetical, what a slippery slope, thin end of the wedge, and dangerous precedent... any realistic appraisal of your hypothetical by anyone with knowledge of where the voters stand would find that the chances of that happening to be laughably small.

[Araraukar]

If you people want to write repeals with this honest mistake in it, let them.

OOC: You know that I'm pro-abortion, and just think this thing is stupid and should instead just simply mandate all nations have the clinics on their own turf and on their own cost, yes?

Ship already sailed.

Nah, it's always a new ship that heads out to the ocean. Every one of them can be sunk.

[Imperium Anglorum]

If you people want to write repeals with this honest mistake in it, let them.

OOC: You know that I'm pro-abortion, and just think this thing is stupid and should instead just simply mandate all nations have the clinics on their own turf and on their own cost, yes?

I don't know. Did you read the preamble?

Ship already sailed.

Nah, it's always a new ship that heads out to the ocean. Every one of them can be sunk.

And this one already reached Valinor.

[Maowi]

OOC:

Clinics. There shall be established regularly accessible clinics, funded by contributions assessed by the GAO, to offer quick, easy, and safe abortions to any willing recipient. All members shall contribute in proportion of use, to the GAO for this purpose.

OOC: ...so any nation that already offers free and safe abortions to people wanting them, can ignore this thing entirely? That's fine then. (Based on "in proportion of use". If you can get abortion in your own healthcare center without needing to travel to a poxy foreign nation, no reasonable person is going to want to travel to begin with, hence proportion of use is zero and thus also participation.)

In a sense I guess this incentivises member nations to fund their own abortions, which is what you stated support of, right?

Also, since abortifacients are not defined (yes, I know what the word means, I mean it's not defined here, which means that, for example, they don't need to be ones that don't also make you unable to get pregnant again later - and no, clause 7 does not forbid that), they create a loophole that at least Araraukar is all too happy to exploit, to avoid certain other legislation about to be passed...

In the event that both this and my proposal pass, how would this clause on abortifacients let you override something in my (to-be-)previously passed resolution?

But more seriously, going to still be voting against, because of clause 8. Weaselwording like that is setting a bad example to all the newbies who've recently come to NS. EDIT: Reason why: the opposition is going to start pushing through one that has the same clause but which bans abortion, instead, just watch.

I still don't see how this is any different to adding a qualifier that the provisions of a proposal are "subject to previous extant World Assembly law" ... which hardly seems a dangerous precedent and definitely can't be used to ban abortion by overriding prior legislation ...

[Zekeinistan]

If a woman seeking abortion is kidnapped, disappears, or meets an unfortunate end before the operation, Zekeinistani authorities will not investigate.

[The World Assembly Elite]

If a woman seeking abortion is kidnapped, disappears, or meets an unfortunate end before the operation, Zekeinistani authorities will not investigate.

The orc detector blares out a shrill alarm. Moments later, a gaggle of gnomes pour in through the door, piling onto the Zekeinistani ambassador.

"Orc containment in progress. Please remain calm."

As if the end of a giant pseudopod, the bundling gnomes lift the ambassador into the air and carry them off to the Deorkification Facility.

[Reploid Productions]

They can't contribute to the increasing of the population, they can't contribute to the divesity of the gene pool. They are abominations and should be allowed a say in anything.

Only by your limited irrational half brain.

So are they dogs then? Maybe cats?

Barf.

Double barf.

Triple barf.

I'd rather clean out a portapotty without any protective equipment.

"This boot appears to be your size, ambassador."

Take your jackboot and shove it up yours, thug.

OOC:
Anarchism has nothing to do with with it, realist.

Good reason never to join as the World Assembly is full of moronic shit.

"I'm just roleplaying!" doesn't magically give you a free pass to be as obnoxious as possible, especially when your "roleplay" posts look identical to OOC one-liner shitposts and have zero appreciable difference from your clearly-marked OOC behavior. Flaming under a flimsy veneer of roleplay is still flaming, and can still get you smacked by moderation. If you want to roleplay as an unhinged political representative, put some effort into it. Plenty of people manage to roleplay as "bad" or "evil" nations without ever crossing the line into rulebreaking. Right now, you're not one of them.


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

[Stellar Colonies]

"Would 'abortion' within the context of this proposal purely refer to the fetal removal procedure which destroys and kills the fetus, or would it allow for the term to be interpreted as an alternative procedure which removes the fetus but preserves it for transplantation elsewhere? The latter has almost entirely if not fully replaced the former within the Confederacy, including Ida Station."