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PASSED: Assistance Givers Protection

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Steel Vipers Inc
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: Jul 13, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Steel Vipers Inc » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:10 am

We are confused by this poorly written piece of legislation relating to Good Samaritan Laws:

2) Any AG shall not attempt to help an emergency victim if a) They are unsure of what actually occurred in the situation at hand or b) Do not have proper training to perform any tasks that need to happen in order to help the emergency victim.

What happened is far less important than what is happening. You are not going to be able to find out what is happening unless you actually do something to help. Sure, you don't know if they are choking because they swallowed a grenade, had a giant wombat hide in their throat or are just choking on a carrot... but those are risks that you can't be aware of till you chose to help. To simplify, you ALWAYS start out unsure, unless you were right there next to them as it happened watching the entire time. Since any decent legal defense can prove the Good Samaritan was probably unsure, civil action is opened up again.

3) A AG forfeits this right if harm is caused to the emergency victim and if the emergency victim, or another other person(s) or organization(s) have viable proof that the harm was intentional.

The use of "and" and "or" in this is confusing. Should be written like this:
3) A AG forfeits this right if the following conditions are both met:
-a) harm is caused to the emergency victim
-b) if the emergency victim, or another other person(s) or organization(s) have viable proof that the harm was intentional
Any inclarities open loopholes in laws and leave them up to interpretation.

1) Any trained medical professional who arrives at the scene of an emergency by chance is confident that they can in some way help an emergency victim is required to help the emergency victim to the best of their ability until other trained personnel arrive.

FORCING a medicaly trained person to help is a definite No-no. First responders when they arrive must help because that is their job. Bystanders must not be forced to help or they might just give shoddy help just to get it over with and avvoid being sued for not helping. What if they had been drinking recently? What if they were on their way to another medical emergency at a hospital? They get sued for failing to help whomever they don't choose.

1a) Requires member states to provide basic education of certain situations and first aid to those who seek it;
1b) Allows for member states to implement mandatory basic education of certain situations and first aid training for citizens to partake in.

I am confused... the mainp point specifically says "Those who seek it" which implies this is VOLUNTARY. The sub-point specifically says "Mandatory". Not only is this contradictory, but if it is mandatory then all citizens must be trained and all must help any victims or risk being sued for not helping. Many people are not cut out to perform medical assistance in any form. They get nervous, scared, panic, vomit, etc. I for one do not wish to have any of those helping me past calling an ambulance.

So in closing , we cannot accept such legislation. We applaud the intent to protect Good Samaritans, but are appalled at the attempt to turn innocent bystanders into targets to be sued for chosing not to help or for being incapable of helping. This proposal needs to be rewritten before we can accept it in any form.

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Toradorable
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 16
Founded: Dec 31, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Toradorable » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:11 am

Bergnovinaia wrote:
Koumba wrote:
The Armed Republic of Koumba
112 minutes ago
Remove your WA proposal or face grave consequences. This will be your only warning. We mean business.


Well good sir, we kindly fire the ignore cannon at your idiotic threats,

OOC: And btw, if you're threatening my nation with Biological hazards of any kind, that is illegal under GA resolution #65, Biological Weapons Conference, which I also authored.


But if he withdraws from the WA, he can use all the bioweapons he wants :) (This forum needs a smugface smiley)

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ElJefe
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Posts: 11
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby ElJefe » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:37 am

I'm voting Against because the title is misspelled.

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Toraston
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 139
Founded: Aug 06, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Toraston » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:46 am

Mr Ivan Quicksilver, newly delegated Ambassador to the Assembly, settled himself at his desk. He glanced through his intray with a bored expression, and, having glanced briefly through the WA Delegates' Manual, stood, after reading through the text of this resolution

Fellow ambassadors;

I am glad to have been elected by my populace to serve as our national representative, and I feel honoured to have been afforded a few minutes to say a few words as my maiden speech. From a brief skim-read of this Resolution, I am proud to say that we support this resolution wholeheartedly. For too long, no assistance giver has been afforded obligatory protection by the laws of the Several Nations assembled in this Assembly. This Resolution will correct a gaping loophole which has existed within national statute books for too long.

Thank you for your attention

Dr. Ivan Quicksilver (phd, English, French, civil law and international law)
Chief Ambassador
Tired of endless wars? Want to resolve things the Matlock-way? Request the IBL to set up a court case right away, to solve your problems, by some day, or some year.
Success not guaranteed.

It is necessary to expose the false propaganda of the imperialists and thoroughly dispel the illusion that the imperialists will give up their positions in the colonies and dependent countries with good will. It is wrong to try to avoid the struggle against imperialism under the pretext that independence and revolution are important, but that peace is still more precious. The oppressed peoples can liberate themselves only through struggle. This is a simple and clear truth confirmed by history.
~ Kim Il-Sung - Communism all the way!

I know what protectionism is
my political compass

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South Titania
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Posts: 13
Founded: Oct 07, 2008
Ex-Nation

AT VOTE: Assistance Givers Protection

Postby South Titania » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:22 pm

Article III
1a) Requires member states to provide basic education of certain situations and first aid to those who seek it;
1b) Allows for member states to implement mandatory basic education of certain situations and first aid training for citizens to partake in.
2)The content of these courses may be determined by the nation based on common emergency situations but the following are highly encouraged: treatment of open sore wounds (i.e. gunshots), CPR, treatment of infectious poisons, and how to operate life saving equipment.


And who exactly will pay for the "training" to people that seek them? This resolution will cause a burden on nations with poor economies / inadequate training facilities. I honestly do not want quacks running around with legal immunity , not to mention deviating funds from other poorly developed sectors to health-care thanks to this resolution.

Also, regarding the forfeiture of an AG's immunity on allegedly causing harm to an emergency victim; what if the AG were to rob the victim and then proceed to incapacitate him causing loss of memory? You would be extending legal immunity to a criminal who would walk away scot free thanks to the victim's inability to recall his attacker.

Sorry, but no. I will vote against this resolution.

-South Titania
WA Delegate of Yggdrasil
Last edited by South Titania on Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bergnovinaia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7314
Founded: Jul 26, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Bergnovinaia » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:48 pm

ElJefe wrote:I'm voting Against because the title is misspelled.


Cool... ;)

South Titania wrote:
Article III
1a) Requires member states to provide basic education of certain situations and first aid to those who seek it;
1b) Allows for member states to implement mandatory basic education of certain situations and first aid training for citizens to partake in.
2)The content of these courses may be determined by the nation based on common emergency situations but the following are highly encouraged: treatment of open sore wounds (i.e. gunshots), CPR, treatment of infectious poisons, and how to operate life saving equipment.


And who exactly will pay for the "training" to people that seek them? This resolution will cause a burden on nations with poor economies / inadequate training facilities. I honestly do not want quacks running around with legal immunity , not to mention deviating funds from other poorly developed sectors to health-care thanks to this resolution.


Ambassador, has it ever occured to you that nowhere in this proposal does it say that nations cannot charge for these courses... that's how they could be funded.

Just a thought... ;)
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Metania
Diplomat
 
Posts: 657
Founded: Dec 31, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Metania » Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:17 pm

Voting against, for we in Metania believe 'Kill or be Killed!' and protecting assistance givers would be against that.

Additionally, we believe the World Assembly must be protected from badly misspelled titles.
Determination Overcomes Adversity
Jul

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South Titania
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Posts: 13
Founded: Oct 07, 2008
Ex-Nation

AT VOTE: Assistance Givers Protection

Postby South Titania » Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:13 am

Bergnovinaia wrote:
ElJefe wrote:I'm voting Against because the title is misspelled.


Cool... ;)

South Titania wrote:
Article III
1a) Requires member states to provide basic education of certain situations and first aid to those who seek it;
1b) Allows for member states to implement mandatory basic education of certain situations and first aid training for citizens to partake in.
2)The content of these courses may be determined by the nation based on common emergency situations but the following are highly encouraged: treatment of open sore wounds (i.e. gunshots), CPR, treatment of infectious poisons, and how to operate life saving equipment.


And who exactly will pay for the "training" to people that seek them? This resolution will cause a burden on nations with poor economies / inadequate training facilities. I honestly do not want quacks running around with legal immunity , not to mention deviating funds from other poorly developed sectors to health-care thanks to this resolution.



Ambassador, has it ever occured to you that nowhere in this proposal does it say that nations cannot charge for these courses... that's how they could be funded.

Just a thought... ;)


Has it ever occurred to you that your proposal forces every nation to build additional training facilities for people that seek it? What if the inflow of AG candidates is too low to justify the cost of building said facilities? Operational costs would outrun the training fees received from AG candidates. Now, you might suggest charging more for the courses, which might backfire if the AGs cannot afford it and thus reduce the no. of recruits even further, effectively changing the Training Institutions into a financial burden.

Just a scenario , that's all I'm suggesting. Commendable your intentions are , but not practical.

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Tedian
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Posts: 14
Founded: Jul 30, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Tedian » Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:38 am

Bergnovinaia wrote:
Poree wrote:I think the Mandates, as written, are too vague and open ended. You should spend some time and re-write them.

My suggestion is to take a look at what kinds of obligations a good samaritan should have and what restrictions should there be. Is there a point where they must have training in order to be protected?

This is a good start but needs quite a bit more for us to think about supporting it.


While I agree, vague is the name of the game in the WA becaue if you get to specific it flips people out.

Also, most people will not read them if they are too detailed due to lazyness.
So to ensure that people at least know what they are voting for it's important to keep it as simple as possible but still have it defined.

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Bears Armed
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21475
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:18 am

Metania wrote:'we in Metania believe 'Kill or be Killed!'


*(defenestrates the Metanian ambassador)*

"Preemptive strike..."
Last edited by Bears Armed on Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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The Eternal Kawaii
Ambassador
 
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Founded: Apr 21, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Eternal Kawaii » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:50 am

Bears Armed wrote:
Metania wrote:'we in Metania believe 'Kill or be Killed!'


*(defenstrates the Metanian ambassador)*

"Preemptive strike..."


The Kawaiian First Secretary scans the assembly quickly and shouts, "Is there a Doctor in the house?!?"
Learn More about The Eternal Kawaii from our Factbook!

"Aside from being illegal, it's not like Max Barry Day was that bad of a resolution." -- Glen Rhodes
"as a member of the GA elite, I don't have to take this" -- Vancouvia

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Adamalk
Secretary
 
Posts: 37
Founded: Aug 02, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Adamalk » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:26 am

I agree with some of the above reply's I think the cost can get up there and I mean im still not sure how I would vote for this
-Adamalk

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Guchai
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Aug 07, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Guchai » Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:34 pm

In general, I am against tort reforms like this one proposed for the GA, and this proposal is no different. The People's Republic of Guchai is against this proposal for more than just the tort aspect of it. First of all, what kind of emergencies are being dealt with in this proposal? Emergencies can range from rape to economic depressions to accidents in one's home, and simply putting together a proposal on how each sovereign nation should put together a comprehensive curriculum for dealing with said emergencies is not feasible. Emergencies vary from case to case, and while the goal of this proposal is noble and well-meaning, it is not the best solution for the problem being addressed in this proposal.

The whole idea that victims that should not be able to file civil lawsuits against AG's that possible gave aid to the victim during a emergency violates the sovereignty of every single nation in this assembly, by taking away the potential rights of victims in every single society. Civil lawsuits are a vital part of the social and judicial fabric of democratic societies with justice systems that allow for them, as a means for citizens to find justice from the government without having the bureaucracy of most governments. Taking away that right in a tort reform is not in the best interest of any of the World Assembly nations, and The People's Republic of Guchai would urge all nations that heed this warning to vote against the proposal.

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Sionis Prioratus
Senator
 
Posts: 3537
Founded: Feb 07, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Sionis Prioratus » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:20 pm

"Assitance Givers Protection" was passed 3,501 votes to 2,012.


Congratulations, sir!
Cathérine Victoire de Saint-Clair
Haute Ambassadrice for the WA for
✡ The Jewish Kingdom of Sionis Prioratus
Daughter of The Late King Adrian the First
In the Name of
Sa Majesté Impériale Dagobert VI de Saint-Clair
A simple truth

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Toraston
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 139
Founded: Aug 06, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Toraston » Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:15 am

Sionis Prioratus wrote:
"Assitance Givers Protection" was passed 3,501 votes to 2,012.


Congratulations, sir!


hear, here!
Tired of endless wars? Want to resolve things the Matlock-way? Request the IBL to set up a court case right away, to solve your problems, by some day, or some year.
Success not guaranteed.

It is necessary to expose the false propaganda of the imperialists and thoroughly dispel the illusion that the imperialists will give up their positions in the colonies and dependent countries with good will. It is wrong to try to avoid the struggle against imperialism under the pretext that independence and revolution are important, but that peace is still more precious. The oppressed peoples can liberate themselves only through struggle. This is a simple and clear truth confirmed by history.
~ Kim Il-Sung - Communism all the way!

I know what protectionism is
my political compass

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The Eternal Kawaii
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1761
Founded: Apr 21, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Eternal Kawaii » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:55 pm

Toraston wrote:
Sionis Prioratus wrote:
"Assitance Givers Protection" was passed 3,501 votes to 2,012.


Congratulations, sir!


hear, here!


So who's on the hook for helping out the Metanian ambassador here? It's the law now.
Learn More about The Eternal Kawaii from our Factbook!

"Aside from being illegal, it's not like Max Barry Day was that bad of a resolution." -- Glen Rhodes
"as a member of the GA elite, I don't have to take this" -- Vancouvia

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Gnome Assitance Givers
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Aug 09, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Gnome Assitance Givers » Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:01 am

The Eternal Kawaii wrote:
Toraston wrote:
Sionis Prioratus wrote:
"Assitance Givers Protection" was passed 3,501 votes to 2,012.


Congratulations, sir!


hear, here!


So who's on the hook for helping out the Metanian ambassador here? It's the law now.


"We'll do it!"

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A mean old man
Senator
 
Posts: 4386
Founded: Jun 27, 2008
Father Knows Best State

Postby A mean old man » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:26 pm

I just realized something...

This was a tort reform act.


*tears of joy*
A: SC#16 - Repeal "Liberate The Security Council"
A: SC#26 - Commend The Joint Systems Alliance
A: SC#30 - Commend 10000 Islands
A: SC#37 - Condemn NAZI EUROPE
A: SC#38 - Repeal "Condemn NAZI EUROPE"
A: GA#149 - On Expiration Dates
C: SC#58 - Repeal "Commend Sedgistan"
A: SC#62 - Repeal "Condemn Swarmlandia"
C: SC#63 - Commend Ballotonia
A: SC#65 - Condemn Punk Reloaded
C: GA#163 - Repeal "Law of the Sea"
A: SC#72 - Repeal "Commend Mikeswill"
C: SC#74 - Condemn Lone Wolves United
C: SC#76 - Repeal "Condemn Thatcherton"
A: SC#81 - Repeal "Condemn Anthony Delasanta"
C: SC#83 - Condemn Automagfreek
C: SC#84 - Repeal "Liberate Islam"
C: SC#111 - Commend Krulltopia ← please forget

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Serrland
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11968
Founded: Sep 30, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Serrland » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:30 pm

A mean old man wrote:I just realized something...

This was a tort reform act.


*tears of joy*


.....way to let the cat out of the bag.

I wonder how long it takes for a repeal to get written up now that you mentioned that? So much for the WA's best kept secret. ;)

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Toraston
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 139
Founded: Aug 06, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Toraston » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:10 am

I have a very important announcement to make to the assembled delegates!

I was reading through the Archives of passed Resolutions. I looked at the title of this Resolution as it is officially recorded in the Statute Book. In the Statute Book, this Law is recorded as "Assitance Givers Protection", however, we have been debating a Resolution which was entitled "Assistance Givers Protection". I am unsure how stringent the Civil Service is regarding exact wordings of the law, but, based in my own legal training, I do not think that this Law will be enforceable with this typo in the title. Especially as the first Clause mentions "Assistance" and the title mentions something else which is nonexistent.

The core of the problem is, if you will be attentive, is that National Governments will say that there is no such thing as "assitance", which means that it cannot be given, which means that there can be no protection offered with regards to it. Thus, this law has unfortunately been rendered unenforceable by a single typo

I yield

Dr. Ivan Quicksilver
Tired of endless wars? Want to resolve things the Matlock-way? Request the IBL to set up a court case right away, to solve your problems, by some day, or some year.
Success not guaranteed.

It is necessary to expose the false propaganda of the imperialists and thoroughly dispel the illusion that the imperialists will give up their positions in the colonies and dependent countries with good will. It is wrong to try to avoid the struggle against imperialism under the pretext that independence and revolution are important, but that peace is still more precious. The oppressed peoples can liberate themselves only through struggle. This is a simple and clear truth confirmed by history.
~ Kim Il-Sung - Communism all the way!

I know what protectionism is
my political compass

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Ardchoille
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 9842
Founded: Apr 18, 2004
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ardchoille » Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:43 am

IC: Dr Quicksilver, the WA has been generally very forgiving about typos, recognising that the task of keeping their Strangers Bar tab believable takes a lot out of a delegate.

-- Dicey Reilly, Wrongfully President for Life of Ardchoille.

OOC: From the Proposal Rules:

A Proposal won't be nuked for the occasional typo, but if I have to spend a good chunk of time trying to figure out what's going on, it'll be nuked.
Ideological Bulwark #35
The more scandalous charges were suppressed; the vicar of Christ was accused only of piracy, rape, sodomy, murder and incest. -- Edward Gibbon on the schismatic Pope John XXIII (1410–1415).

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