[Defeated] Peaceful First Contact

[Umeria]

Link to the proposal

Global Disarmament | Mild

The World Assembly,

Acknowledging the right of member nations to defend their borders;

Noting that in a first contact, both parties have little to no knowledge of the other;

Realizing that without such knowledge, it is impossible to determine whether starting a war would be beneficial;

Further noting that the consequences of a non-beneficial war are often disastrous;

Concluding, therefore, that member nations should refrain from initiating unprovoked attacks on nations they just met until they know what they have to gain;

Proclaiming that first impressions matter;

Hereby prohibits all citizens of member nations from attacking persons or vehicles of unknown origin, unless it is in response to either an attack or a territorial incursion by said persons or vehicles.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Upon notification of tyrannical activity in a nation which Velstrania has not yet established an ambassadorial presence, activity will be assessed via the use of covert agents or satellite activity. Upon establishment of knowledge of the tyrannical activity, as well as the military capabilities of the target nation, suitable crusader forces may be sent to discontinue such activity.

Would this violate your proposal?

[Tinfect]

OOC:
You aren't new here, you have no excuse not to know that plagiarism isn't acceptable.

Oops. Didn't realize Gatash was one of yours.

[Morover]

OOC:
You aren't new here, you have no excuse not to know that plagiarism isn't acceptable.

OOC: Sorry if I'm being slow, but I don't see any plagiarism? I don't think it's considered as such, so long as you're allowed to reuse your own work from the past (which I'm like, 99% sure you are).

That being said, I would still like clarification on what happens when more than 2 nations meet, as well as an expansion on the meaning of "clear, universal warning signals to not enter." I don't think there are truly universal warning signals.

[Marxist Germany]

OOC:
You aren't new here, you have no excuse not to know that plagiarism isn't acceptable.

OOC: He submitted this and failed vote

[Umeria]

So the new thread was supposed to give the proposal a fresh start. Not sure how successful that was.

Upon notification of tyrannical activity in a nation which Velstrania has not yet established an ambassadorial presence, activity will be assessed via the use of covert agents or satellite activity. Upon establishment of knowledge of the tyrannical activity, as well as the military capabilities of the target nation, suitable crusader forces may be sent to discontinue such activity.

Would this violate your proposal?

If you've already assessed the risks then it shouldn't be prohibited. I've made the appropriate edits.

[Quirinum]

The name of this resolution is unclear. Bad blood usually refers to either fraudulent venture capital biotechnology firms or tswift2014. However it is, it will make it all the easier for the Roman people to enforce their will upon the barbarians. If the barbarians cannot shoot back, we will always be able to put a pilum through their torsos first.

[Araraukar]

an "act of hostility" towards an entity as any of the following:

1. violating the entity's national borders,
2. using a weapon against the entity,
3. charging the entity's position, or
4. entering an area that the entity has issued clear, universal warning signals to not enter;

Note that this proposal does not apply within the member nation's borders.

OOC: Problem highlighted.

[Umeria]

The name of this resolution is unclear. Bad blood usually refers to either fraudulent venture capital biotechnology firms or tswift2014.

Dictionary says it refers to animosity or bitterness.

an "act of hostility" towards an entity as any of the following:

1. violating the entity's national borders,
2. using a weapon against the entity,
3. charging the entity's position, or
4. entering an area that the entity has issued clear, universal warning signals to not enter;

Note that this proposal does not apply within the member nation's borders.

OOC: Problem highlighted.

Are you saying that the proposal does apply within member nations' borders?

[Morover]

"Beyond the silliness of the title, how should nations who have never met each other be aware of the extent of the other nations' borders?'

[Umeria]

"Beyond the silliness of the title,

It was the only thing I could think of that looked good next to "a resolution to slash worldwide military spending".

how should nations who have never met each other be aware of the extent of the other nations' borders?'

Member nations physically can't be in non-compliance with WA resolutions, so their explorers would encounter a force field barring them from entry. At least, I think that's how the compliance system works.

[Maowi]

OOC: Could you explain what "a meeting between a member nation and one or more nations or other comparable legal entities" would look like? Does the whole of each population have to turn up to meet each other? I personally feel that this could do with some clarification in the proposal.

[Morover]

"Beyond the silliness of the title,

It was the only thing I could think of that looked good next to "a resolution to slash worldwide military spending".

how should nations who have never met each other be aware of the extent of the other nations' borders?'

Member nations physically can't be in non-compliance with WA resolutions, so their explorers would encounter a force field barring them from entry. At least, I think that's how the compliance system works.

OOC:
While I agree with the non-compliance being mandatory, I find it a bit absurd to say a literal forcefield would stop it. Also, even if a forcefield would prevent member-states from entering, non-member-states can infringe on the borders they are not aware of without consequence.

[Desmosthenes and Burke]

Member nations physically can't be in non-compliance with WA resolutions, so their explorers would encounter a force field barring them from entry. At least, I think that's how the compliance system works.

This is not the case. We have several resolutions on the books that acknowledge that non-compliance is possible and ascribing penalties for doing so. Off the top of my head, Auralia and UM, amongst major WA regulars, refuse to comply with certain resolutions, and I believe Sep maintains that there is significant litigation happening IC about compliance ;p

[The JELLEAIN Republic]

How do you meet a new nation without acidenteailly going in their borders...

[Kenmoria]

how should nations who have never met each other be aware of the extent of the other nations' borders?'

Member nations physically can't be in non-compliance with WA resolutions, so their explorers would encounter a force field barring them from entry. At least, I think that's how the compliance system works.

(OOC: Although there are disagreements about how compliance works, I don’t think a forcefield would be realistic for two MT nations meeting. Land borders can be invisible in places, and space borders would be almost impossible to demarcate. You could accept this as something that cannot be fixed, or change the wording of the clause so that crossing a border is only an act of hostility if the border is well-marked.)

[Araraukar]

OOC: or change the wording of the clause so that crossing a border is only an act of hostility if the border is well-marked.)

OOC: And then explain how a MT nation on a planet of MT nations could be unaware of a nation existing in a given location. Like, you might not know exactly whose land you're on, if the border's not well marked, but you wouldn't be unaware of being on someone else's land but your own, when outside your borders.

[Umeria]

With the latest edit I believe I have addressed all, yes, all of the above concerns.

[Maowi]

Defines, for the purposes of this resolution:[list=a]
[*]a "first contact" as a meeting between the inhabitants or representatives of a member nation and one or more nations or other comparable legal entities in which the member nation has not previously encountered at least one of the other parties;

OOC: So, if an inhabitant of nation A is the first ever person from that nation to go on a trip to nation B, suddenly nation A is allowed to attack nation B?

[Umeria]

Edit 3: Changed "not previously encountered" to "little to no knowledge of".

[Morover]

"first contact" as a meeting between the inhabitants or representatives of a member nation and one or more nations or other comparable legal entities in which the member nation has not previously encountered at least one of the other parties;

"A hypothetical: Two nations are at war. Both nations are members of the World AssemblyThese are not particularly advanced nations, and the war is over territorial disputes. Despite the war actually being fairly even in terms of raw manpower, nation A has been successful in pushing into nation B's territory. Nation B, knowing that nation A must follow World Assembly law, enlists the help of nation C, whom they know nation A has never met, as they are on the opposite side of nation B. They line nation C's soldiers up on nation B's side of the border, and nation A, having not met nation C, must stop fighting. Of course, nation B also must stop fighting, but they've effectively barricaded nation A. The only way for nation A to advance is for nation A to retreat and then come back, thus making it not a first encounter."

"While this might be a bit of an absurdist situation, it holds some merit. For example, what is nation C were actual militaristic allies of nation B? All fighting on the battlefield would need to come to an immediate stop - especially if nation C was also a World Assembly nation. It would essentially become a waiting game. As it stands, your definition of 'first contact' is completely infeasible for initial contacts which involve more than two 'entities,' as you put it."

[Umeria]

Edits made.

I hate definitions.

[Maowi]

OOC: That made this a problen again, though ...

OOC: Could you explain what "a meeting between a member nation and one or more nations or other comparable legal entities" would look like? Does the whole of each population have to turn up to meet each other? I personally feel that this could do with some clarification in the proposal.

[Umeria]

Edit 6:

a "first contact" as an accidental meeting between one or more peoples, including peoples from a member nation with little to no knowledge of at least one other party;

I really hope the sentence structure implies that the whole member nation is the one with little to no knowledge, not just the specific people involved.

[Maowi]

OOC: I think the comma placement makes it clear what you mean.

But I still find your definition problematic. Substituting "nations" with "peoples," which has a similar meaning, doesn't solve the problem. I'd personally be more on board with "first contact" being an encounter between an official representative of a member nation, or a member nation's military forces, with someone from another nation, for the first time.