[DEFEATED] Don't Shoot Strangers Act

[Gastash]

This proposal is being redrafted here.

Global Disarmament | Mild

The World Assembly,

Recognizing that even the heart of the most intrepid explorer harbors a primal fear of the unknown;

Realizing that there is nothing more unknown than the first encounter between two peoples;

Concluding, therefore, that neither side of such an encounter can claim foreknowledge of the other side having hostile intent;

Asserting that the vast majority of explorers and other such border dwellers do not exist in a constant state of maliciousness;

Damning any so-called "preemptive strike" exhibited by either side to be an act of the aforementioned primal fear;

Affirming that, as a civilized body, this august assembly should strive to promote acts of logic and reason;

Declaring that logic and reason would prohibit an unprovoked attack without any knowledge of the consequences;

Proclaiming that first impressions matter;

Hereby

1. Defines, for the purposes of this resolution:
   1. a "first contact" as a meeting between two or more nations or other comparable legal entities in which at least one party has not previously encountered or communicated with the other;
   2. an "act of hostility" towards an entity as any of the following:
      1. firing a weapon at the entity,
      2. charging the entity's position,
      3. violating the entity's national borders, or
      4. entering an area that the entity has issued clear, universal warning signals to not enter;
2. Prohibits member nations from committing an act of hostility during a first contact if no acts of hostility have been committed by any other parties involved in the first contact; and
   
   
3. Clarifies that member nations shall not claim new territory as a means of circumventing the previous clause.

Note that this proposal does not apply within the member nation's borders.

[Kenmoria]

“This is an excellent proposal; I have nothing to criticise here.”

[Araraukar]

Hereby prohibits member nations from attacking another nation during the nations' initial encounter without the knowledge that the encountered nation is hostile.

OOC: So basically you're taking away first strike capability from WA nations? Or just when you first come across them? How much death and destruction should there be before the other nation can be classified as hostile? I mean, I'm all for making WA nations less effective at warfare, but how do you know you've encountered another nation and not just some bunch of pirates who have their base on an island and don't react too kindly to you coming to snoop around? Could you add some requirement of the explorers needing to at least try to communicate, before deciding on hostility?

[Gastash]

Hereby prohibits member nations from attacking another nation during the nations' initial encounter without the knowledge that the encountered nation is hostile.

OOC: So basically you're taking away first strike capability from WA nations? Or just when you first come across them?

Only when one party is completely unknown to the other.

How much death and destruction should there be before the other nation can be classified as hostile?

As soon as the first shot is fired.

I mean, I'm all for making WA nations less effective at warfare, but how do you know you've encountered another nation and not just some bunch of pirates who have their base on an island and don't react too kindly to you coming to snoop around?

The principle is the same. You have no idea whether they have hostile intentions, so why attack them?

Could you add some requirement of the explorers needing to at least try to communicate, before deciding on hostility?

Communication is the only way you can interact with them, unless they start attacking you.

[Araraukar]

Could you add some requirement of the explorers needing to at least try to communicate, before deciding on hostility?

Communication is the only way you can interact with them, unless they start attacking you.

OOC: So could you add that then? Or change your title to something more fitting like "no first strike on first contact", if you're not actually interested in the protocol of first contact.

[Gastash]

Edit 1: The title was changed from "First Contact Protocol" to "Don't Shoot Strangers Act", in an attempt to portray the contents of the proposal more accurately.

[Separatist Peoples]

"Opposed. The unknown is a threat until proven otherwise."

[Gastash]

"Opposed. The unknown is a threat until proven otherwise."

"This marks a significant difference in beliefs between us. I do not view people I haven't met as 'the unknown'. I believe they are people very similar to you and me. I know I would much rather accept a hand of friendship than resort to violence, so I extend a hand of my own.

"I did not always have this philosophy. Many years ago I was in charge of an outpost on the Gastashi border. We spotted a few dozen people approaching, clearly not of Gastashi origin. By our laws they were trespassing, so we ordered them to halt. They did not understand our language, and continued forward, perhaps believing that we had offered them hospitality after their long journey. I looked at them, and applied the same reasoning as you. They were unknown, they were intruding on our territory, so they were a threat. I ordered them killed.

"They fled, of course, and reported to their nation that we were savages that knew no language other than violence. They sent their armies after us, and we responded in kind. The conflict lasted years, with millions of lives lost on both sides. We eventually found ourselves in a stalemate, and agreed to parley. What did we find? Neither side had anything to gain from fighting! Millions dead, and for what? A misunderstanding.

"That is why I wrote this proposal. I don't want something that could have so easily been avoided to ever happen again. All it takes is a little trust in our shared humanity. But if you are insistent in your belief that people from unexplored lands are faceless monsters, then there is nothing I can do to convince you."

[Separatist Peoples]

"Opposed. The unknown is a threat until proven otherwise."

"This marks a significant difference in beliefs between us. I do not view people I haven't met as 'the unknown'. I believe they are people very similar to you and me. I know I would much rather accept a hand of friendship than resort to violence, so I extend a hand of my own."

"That's how you lose border units, ambassador."

[u]
"I did not always have this philosophy. Many years ago I was in charge of an outpost on the Gastashi border. We spotted a few dozen people approaching, clearly not of Gastashi origin. By our laws they were trespassing, so we ordered them to halt. They did not understand our language, and continued forward, perhaps believing that we had offered them hospitality after their long journey. I looked at them, and applied the same reasoning as you. They were unknown, they were intruding on our territory, so they were a threat. I ordered them killed.

"They fled, of course, and reported to their nation that we were savages that knew no language other than violence. They sent their armies after us, and we responded in kind. The conflict lasted years, with millions of lives lost on both sides. We eventually found ourselves in a stalemate, and agreed to parley. What did we find? Neither side had anything to gain from fighting! Millions dead, and for what? A misunderstanding.

"That is why I wrote this proposal. I don't want something that could have so easily been avoided to ever happen again. All it takes is a little trust in our shared humanity. But if you are insistent in your belief that people from unexplored lands are faceless monsters, then there is nothing I can do to convince you."

"The C.D.S.P. fires at all vehicles or individuals who cross our border without authorization, ambassador. Sometimes with naval artillery. Your story is a somewhat normal incident at C.D.S.P. checkpoints. As far as we're concerned, strangers are enemies who haven't declared themselves yet. We see no reason to alter our operating procedure."

[Gastash]

"This marks a significant difference in beliefs between us. I do not view people I haven't met as 'the unknown'. I believe they are people very similar to you and me. I know I would much rather accept a hand of friendship than resort to violence, so I extend a hand of my own."

"That's how you lose border units, ambassador."

"I highly doubt that waiting until one shot is fired to start attacking will result in the destruction of an entire unit. Most explorers do not carry nukes."

"The C.D.S.P. fires at all vehicles or individuals who cross our border without authorization, ambassador. Sometimes with naval artillery."

"It saddens me to think of all the traders, envoys, civilians, and otherwise innocent human beings who were slaughtered because of your nation's paranoia."

"As far as we're concerned, strangers are enemies who haven't declared themselves yet."

"That is fundamentally untrue. Strangers are neutral. It is only after you shoot at them that they become enemies."

"We see no reason to alter our operating procedure."

"You will after it ignites a long, bloody, and pointless war."

[Liberimery]

Ambassador, it seems you fail to grasp that C.D.S.P. Fires on unauthorized crossing of borders including maritime border runs. All the people you listed are either declared before the line is crossed or given ample warning about imminent danger if they do not yield immediately. Unless you wish to accuse the C.D.S.P. of randomly shooting up people at its border crossings and port of entries on the floor, I suggest you make sure your translator is not lying to you about how words work. And if you want to accuse the Ambassador from the C.D.S.P. of an international crime, W.A. security council is down the hall and to your left. Take your baseless accusations and ad hominems there and stop wasting the oxygen in this room with this nonsense!

[Separatist Peoples]

"It saddens me to think of all the traders, envoys, civilians, and otherwise innocent human beings who were slaughtered because of your nation's paranoia."

"All individuals approaching our borders are on-notice of their obligations. Those individuals failed to turn back or surrender. The consequences are on them."

"That is fundamentally untrue. Strangers are neutral. It is only after you shoot at them that they become enemies."

"No, they were enemies when they didn't obey the lawful command to turn back or surrender. Failure to comply with lawful orders at the national border is an inherently hostile act."

"You will after it ignites a long, bloody, and pointless war."

"The results of those wars have been a net gain to the C.D.S.P. Ergo, not pointless."

[Gastash]

[snip]

"What I fail to grasp is how these people know they are unauthorized, given that they do not understand the language."

"All individuals approaching our borders are on-notice of their obligations. Those individuals failed to turn back or surrender. The consequences are on them."

"May I ask how you inform them? I might be able to put it in the proposal."

[Separatist Peoples]

[

"All individuals approaching our borders are on-notice of their obligations. Those individuals failed to turn back or surrender. The consequences are on them."

"May I ask how you inform them? I might be able to put it in the proposal."

"Where signs and radio beacons fail, the universally understood 'warning shot' is standard protocol. Depending on the source, analysis shows that these methods are between 92% and 96% effective at stopping unidentified hostiles."

[Gastash]

Edit 2: The operative clause has been made contingent on the encountered nation not committing an "act of hostility", defined in the proposal. The definition is of course open to further additions and clarifications.

[Araraukar]

from attacking another nation during the nations' initial encounter if the encountered nation has not committed an act of hostility.

OOC: Moving military units over the border is a good way to be declared "attacking" by many nations, whether or not that was actually your intention.

[Gastash]

from attacking another nation during the nations' initial encounter if the encountered nation has not committed an act of hostility.

OOC: Moving military units over the border is a good way to be declared "attacking" by many nations, whether or not that was actually your intention.

I changed "attacking" to "committing an act of hostility". Hopefully that clears it up.

[Araraukar]

OOC: Moving military units over the border is a good way to be declared "attacking" by many nations, whether or not that was actually your intention.

I changed "attacking" to "committing an act of hostility". Hopefully that clears it up.

OOC: I don't think you can clear it, unless you go for something like "act of violence", because moving military forces over the border can be counted (especially, you know, if you haven't spoken with the people before) as hostile and even act of war.

But that said, exactly what do you think as the scenario for what this is meant to legislate on? Because, like, in RL at least there really aren't unclaimed bits of land (yeah yeah I know about the three plus Antarctica, but practically speaking), so the moment you step outside your own borders, unless you enter international waters, you enter someone else's borders, and it's basically not possible for you to not know your neighbours, whether you had diplomatic ties with them or not.

The only real application that I can think of, would be with spacefaring nations, in which case "shoot first, ask questions later" can be the only chance a less advanced nation is going to have, because they might not survive the "first shot" of the more advanced nation's craft. Not to mention that waiting for them to take the first shot means giving them time to get their bearings and figure out stuff about you that you'd prefer they didn't. Like major population centers. And yes I've seen Independence Day 2, but I still think the humans reacted correctly.

[Liberimery]

I changed "attacking" to "committing an act of hostility". Hopefully that clears it up.

OOC: I don't think you can clear it, unless you go for something like "act of violence", because moving military forces over the border can be counted (especially, you know, if you haven't spoken with the people before) as hostile and even act of war.

But that said, exactly what do you think as the scenario for what this is meant to legislate on? Because, like, in RL at least there really aren't unclaimed bits of land (yeah yeah I know about the three plus Antarctica, but practically speaking), so the moment you step outside your own borders, unless you enter international waters, you enter someone else's borders, and it's basically not possible for you to not know your neighbours, whether you had diplomatic ties with them or not.

The only real application that I can think of, would be with spacefaring nations, in which case "shoot first, ask questions later" can be the only chance a less advanced nation is going to have, because they might not survive the "first shot" of the more advanced nation's craft. Not to mention that waiting for them to take the first shot means giving them time to get their bearings and figure out stuff about you that you'd prefer they didn't. Like major population centers. And yes I've seen Independence Day 2, but I still think the humans reacted correctly.

OOC: Actually that’s not entirely true. There are some areas of Africa that aren’t really apart of any nation. In addition there are in uncontacted peoples in the world.

[Gastash]

I changed "attacking" to "committing an act of hostility". Hopefully that clears it up.

OOC: I don't think you can clear it, unless you go for something like "act of violence", because moving military forces over the border can be counted (especially, you know, if you haven't spoken with the people before) as hostile and even act of war.

The goal of this proposal is to make sure that they have spoken before.

The only real application that I can think of, would be with spacefaring nations, in which case "shoot first, ask questions later" can be the only chance a less advanced nation is going to have, because they might not survive the "first shot" of the more advanced nation's craft. Not to mention that waiting for them to take the first shot means giving them time to get their bearings and figure out stuff about you that you'd prefer they didn't. Like major population centers.

If you've never encountered the nation before, you have no way of knowing if their lasers are more advanced than yours. Or, for that matter, if they even intend to attack you. They probably don't, all things considered. Firing at them would be much riskier than seeing if they want to talk first. Attacking would therefore be- *puts on Spock ears* -highly illogical.

[Araraukar]

OOC: Actually that’s not entirely true. There are some areas of Africa that aren’t really apart of any nation.

OOC: As I said in the small print, I'm aware of the three exceptions.

In addition there are in uncontacted peoples in the world.

Peoples are not nations.

And at author, if an alien spaceship showed up on Earth orbit, their tech would OBVIOUSLY be higher than ours, not a pissing contest with lasers. And as you refer to Spock, the ST Federation is a good example of exploring with military warships (the Enterprise in its various forms).

Living long and prospering sometimes means shooting first.

[Gastash]

And at author, if an alien spaceship showed up on Earth orbit, their tech would OBVIOUSLY be higher than ours, not a pissing contest with lasers. And as you refer to Spock, the ST Federation is a good example of exploring with military warships (the Enterprise in its various forms).

Living long and prospering sometimes means shooting first.

In that case you'd probably be able to spot them and try to contact them before they got that close, satisfying definition c. Unless they used a wormhole or something.

Don't you think there's a higher chance that they aren't intent on immediately killing you?

[Separatist Peoples]

Don't you think there's a higher chance that they aren't intent on immediately killing you?

"No."

[Gastash]

Norman paused as he reached the top of the hill. It had been a long, hard day of trekking through dense rainforest, but the view he enjoyed at that moment made it all worth it. He could see for miles in every direction, vast swaths of jungle teeming with life. He took a slow, deep breath of fresh air, and smiled.

He was never more alive than in these moments. Norman was perfectly in tune with nature, one with the creatures of the great forest. He was at peace.

As the moment slowly ebbed away, gently guiding him back to reality, he took out his camera and started his work. His employers might find joy in the pictures he took, but for Norman it was no substitute to being there, seeing the wondrous designs of nature with his own eyes.

He stopped. There was some kind of camp down there. A border outpost. They'd told him this region was completely uninhabited. He adjusted the focus. Yes, those were people, very different from any he'd seen before. Could it be... he was about to be part of a first contact?

His breath quickened, and with that breath came a rage. A bottomless well of hatred that infused every fiber of his being. These people must die. They must burn with the fire of a thousand suns. Norman needed to KILL! KILL AND KILL AND KILL WITH BLOOD AND DEATH AND FIRE!!!

Norman gazed with horror at the bloody, ashen wreckage of the outpost. "Oh God," he whispered to himself, "What have I done?"

[Araraukar]

Don't you think there's a higher chance that they aren't intent on immediately killing you?

OOC: Regardless of what I actually think or what I RP as, I'm trying to explain to you that this is going to be the attitude that you'll be fighting against not just drafting but also in vote. If you can't give a better answer but "give peace a chance!", you're going to lose.