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by Tinhampton » Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:17 am
by Alnorud » Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:04 am
Tinhampton wrote:Some minor stylistic corrections and suggestions:
"over numerous years" ---> "over numerous years, having previously"
Tinhampton wrote:"Apulitans" ---> either "Apulita's" or "Apulitan"
"Apulitia" ---> "Apulita"
Tinhampton wrote:"appealed" ---> either "appealed to" or "urged"
Tinhampton wrote:Almost full support:
1. What was EuroState?
2. It's obvious that Apulita's Longest Delegacy wasn't his first because you said earlier that he first took office in 2013, and it's obvious that he served as Delegate later because you talk about his service to WZEU in the Federation era.
by Alnorud » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:51 am
by Tinhampton » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:06 am
by Jakker » Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:44 am
The Bruce wrote:Mostly I feel sorry for [raiders], because they put in all this effort and at the end of the day have nothing to show for it and have created nothing.
by Alnorud » Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:58 am
Tinhampton wrote:Sorry for not getting back to Alnorudsoonerat all
Jakker wrote:While this looks like a solid proposal, I am surprised there was no mention of Asta in the clauses related to Warzone Europe. Perhaps it would diminish part of what you were saying, but it is highly unlikely that WZ Europe would have been safe with Apulita remaining in the delgacy for so long if it wasn't for her protection.
Contends that Astarial’s leadership has brought peace and tranquility to Warzone Europe, a region previously plagued with unrest and military upheavals. Under Astarial’s direction, Warzone Europe has enjoyed a stable delegacy for the record period of six months.The clause is indeed not updated, as the Dominion permitted far more than six months of stability, but I suppose that Astarial's role was technically already commended.
by Jakker » Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:28 am
Jakker wrote:While this looks like a solid proposal, I am surprised there was no mention of Asta in the clauses related to Warzone Europe. Perhaps it would diminish part of what you were saying, but it is highly unlikely that WZ Europe would have been safe with Apulita remaining in the delgacy for so long if it wasn't for her protection.
Contends that Astarial’s leadership has brought peace and tranquility to Warzone Europe, a region previously plagued with unrest and military upheavals. Under Astarial’s direction, Warzone Europe has enjoyed a stable delegacy for the record period of six months.The clause is indeed not updated, as the Dominion permitted far more than six months of stability, but I suppose that Astarial's role was technically already commended.[/quote]
The Bruce wrote:Mostly I feel sorry for [raiders], because they put in all this effort and at the end of the day have nothing to show for it and have created nothing.
by Tinhampton » Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:22 am
[spoiler][b]Salutations dear nations of the World Assembly,[/b]
I am here today to ask you, if haven't already, to vote [b]FOR[/b] the proposal [b][url=https://www.nationstates.net/page=sc]Commend Apulita[/url][/b].
You may have been wondering why this proposal, despise being rather supported on the Security Council Forums, is now heading towards disapproval when it comes to the vote. This happened as two large Feeder regions voted very early against this proposal, leading to an initial majority of votes of more than 90% against (Now around 70% against), a majority that was then trusted by many voters. Due to the lack of debate on the SC Forums, I will address some of the concerns raised on regional forums and statement dispatches about this proposal in this telegram.
If needed, here is a summary of the historical and mechanical knowledge required to fully understand the debate around this proposal:
[spoiler=Historical and Mechanical Summary]Warzones are Game Created Regions founded in 2004 by game administrators, they remained empty sandboxes for years as they are meant to be raided and hardly stable. It was the case for every Warzones until [nation]Warzone Codger[/nation] successfully organized a Warzone community in [region]Warzone Airspace[/region] which held the region for more than a year, Codger was later Commended for their impressive run in this Warzone. What makes a Warzone hard to hold is that any person with Border Control authority (Would it be a Delegate or a Regional Officer) can ban every nations located in the Warzone without any influence cost and bans are only temporary there (Meaning raiders can raid again), this added to the lack of an executive Founder and the impossibility to put a regional password expect during Z-Day events makes a Warzone a difficult place to stabilize where all your work can be destroyed at any moment by a raid.
In 2013, the Dominion of [region]Warzone Europe[/region] was founded, a native government protected by [region]Equilism[/region] with [nation]Astarial[/nation] (From [region]Equilism[/region]) as Empress and [nation]Apulita[/nation] (From [region]Warzone Europe[/region]) as Governor. This government proved to be a success as it lasted from late 2013 to early 2018, which is probably the longest lasting period to this day for a Warzone government. In times when the Dominion was clearly threatened, [region]Equilism[/region] and [region]The North Pacific[/region] were usually deploying pilers to ensure the safety of this protectorate, which is why some regions claimed that a Commendation of [nation]Apulita[/nation] should reference the contributions of [region]The North Pacific[/region].
However it is important noting that [b]a Warzone protectorate requires work from both the protecting and the native sides[/b], Warzones are constantly under threat of being raided and even if piling operations from allies are useful, a Warzone protectorate could very well not last a single day if the native community does not work to improve their permanent defenses. It's also worth noting that [nation]Apulita[/nation] is usually considered to be a great diplomat (As noted in the proposal) and that Apulita had an important in preventing raids on [region]Warzone Europe[/region], or even Warzones at large in some cases like when The Association of Imperialism (A 2014-2015 Imperialist region) aimed to take over the Warzones and decided rather to befriend the Warzones after talks with Apulita.
[b]As a possible example of the influence of [nation]Apulita[/nation]'s work[/b] as Governor in Warzone Europe, it could be noted while Apulita's thousand days as Governor only saw one successful raid on the region, the protectorate was successfully raided at least three times in less than a year and a half after their resignation, leading to some occupations of Warzone Europe and destruction of their embassies. All of these events happened under the same Protectorate government, which makes the claim that [nation]Apulita[/nation] was not influential in preventing raids dubious.
[nation]Apulita[/nation] resigned from their role as Governor in late 2016, ending their Longest Delegacy and after 1,000 days as Delegate. After some time serving in the Internal Ministry, Apulita stopped playing Nationstates for a time. The Dominion ended in early 2018 after several raids which condemned the region's association with [region]Equilism[/region], as the success and afiliations of [region]Warzone Europe[/region] had made them an interesting target, Apulita later restored the native community under an independent government after coming back in late 2018. Most of the achievements of Apulita in getting the Warzone communities to cooperate then happened following their return (Founding of the Warzone Federation, [url=https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1272640]preventing infighting after the Warzone Civil War[/url] and leading Warzones towards de facto and then formal cooperation under the [url=https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1293039]Warzone Treaty[/url] most notably).[/spoiler]
The successive drafts of the proposal were posted on the Security Council Forums since October and only one short reference to The North Pacific was made during the debates around the draft, meaning that people thinking this proposal should directly reference their former allies did not voiced their concern at any time along the 8 months given to debate this proposal. It would certainly be worth noting that even now that the proposal is at vote, there still isn't much (if any actually) debate going on the Security Council Forums, which is saddening as I'm sure that more participation on the Forums can provide resolutions of a better quality.
I would also note that [b]Equilism and The North Pacific were already indirectly Commended[/b] for their work in Warzone Europe as the Commendation of the main actor in Warzone Europe's success on their side of the Equilism-Warzone Europe Treaty, was partially Commended because of this, as [nation]Astarial[/nation]'s Commendation recognizes her part in contributing to the fact that "[i]Warzone Europe has enjoyed a stable delegacy for the record period of six months[/i]", which, while an outdated one, it a recognition by the WA of her work for Warzone Europe.
The [url=https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_past_resolution/id=147/council=2]Commend Astarial[/url] resolution also [b]does not include any reference to the work of the natives of Warzone Europe[/b] in participating in their region's stability, which makes me believe that affirming that an individual Commendation of Apulita (Which includes much more than only their work as Delegate under the Dominion) should be denied because of a lack of reference to their allies makes me believe that credits seems to be given in a one-sided way with this point of view.
Plus, statements asking for an individual Commendation to include credits only [i]after[/i] the proposal was submitted to the WA while there have been eight months of resolution drafting without showing any sign of opposition to the proposal, seems like pretty late suggestions which are certainly not helping to recognize the work of anyone in Warzone Europe's success.
Of course, I don't want to antagonize any region or any nation that are uncertain about the ability to credit part of this success to [nation]Apulita[/nation] but I am quite saddened to see former allies of the Dominion opposing a Commendation that [nation]Apulita[/nation] partially deserve (As their Longest Delegacy is only one part of the proposal, not all of it) thanks to their historical mutual work. I, however, disapprove this choice in this debate as it seems mainly motivated by regional interests and is in direct contradiction with other resolutions related to the Warzones, such as the one of [nation]Astarial[/nation] (Which clause's on Warzone Europe reference neither [region]Warzone Europe[/region] or [region]The North Pacific[/region]) or of [nation]Warzone Codger[/nation] (The founding father of Warzone communities who was Commended for their 365 Days Delegacy streak and has showed support to this proposal on the SC Forums).
To be clear there, this is [b]not[/b], and never been in my eyes, a proposal erasing The North Pacific's contributions, this is a proposal to recognize the underestimated contributions of a major actor in the Warzones' History.
If you are looking for other opinions on the matter, I would suggest this dispatch from The Rejected Realms on Pros and Cons, which provides a neutral summary on the debate around the proposal, as well as the recommendation of the UDS which is written from a Defender point of view.
[spoiler=Here are the links!]
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1389950 https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1389603[/spoiler]
Also, while I can understand this opinion, I disagree with the idea that at this proposal is doomed to fail at this point, nothing is settled yet as any vote against reconsidering their position makes this proposal twice closer to its success. As some would say, who tries nothing gets nothing and I'm willing to try if it's in order for a person that I deeply respect to get recognized for their work.
Finally, I would also like to thank everyone who showed support to this proposal, as while I didn't expected it to be this controversial, I didn't expected such diverse support once the vote headed toward disapproval, with Natives from several regions, fellow Warzoners, some Defender regions ([region]10000 Islands[/region] and the [region]The Union of Democratic States[/region]) or [nation]Isaris[/nation] (An historical member of Equilism showing support to this proposal despite this unexpected controversy was a warm sight to me considering their historical relationship with Warzone Europe!) all being in favor of this proposal.
Thank you for your time and with hopes to see [nation]Apulita[/nation] receiving this much deserved recognition from the World Assembly,
Sincerely,
[nation]Jean Rowe[/nation][/spoiler]
by A World Assembly Member » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:06 am
by Mal Leecksia » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:22 am
by Superbunny » Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:17 pm
A World Assembly Member wrote:(puppet here)
To be honest, no one want to read a lot of text. I'd prefer a tldr and then detail in the spoiler. That's the reason I am voting against.
The campaign tg is too long.
by Alnorud » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:33 pm
Tinhampton wrote:To those of you wondering why Kuriko has voted against, it appears to be due to Jean Rowe managing to yeet the following campaign TG to every single WA nation, including XKI and Europe residents:
Tinhampton wrote:TOP TIP: If your proposal is receiving 30% support and you want it to pass, don't campaign in a manner that makes it plummet to 24% support almost immediately after you do it.
A World Assembly Member wrote:(puppet here)
To be honest, no one want to read a lot of text. I'd prefer a tldr and then detail in the spoiler. That's the reason I am voting against.
The campaign tg is too long.
Superbunny wrote:A World Assembly Member wrote:(puppet here)
To be honest, no one want to read a lot of text. I'd prefer a tldr and then detail in the spoiler. That's the reason I am voting against.
I wanted people interested to be able to have an actual idea of what this vote was about, giving them additional links and put Historical and Mechanical explations in Spoilers. As said above, the vote was unlikely to pass anyway so what I would say in this telegram mattered tome more than whether or not it was too long
The campaign tg is too long.
Or you could just actually read the proposal and vote on its merits.
by Tinhampton » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:04 pm
by Rossiyaana » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:31 pm
Boda wrote:What happened here? Do people just hate warzoners?
by Kuriko » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:20 am
by Honeydewistania » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:31 am
Boda wrote:What happened here? Do people just hate warzoners?
Alger wrote:if you have egoquotes in your signature, touch grass
by Praeceps » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:38 am
Honeydewistania wrote:Boda wrote:What happened here? Do people just hate warzoners?
TNP were annoyed that they didn’t get the credit due for helping protect WZEU. Also the telegram annoyed XKI so they changed their vote, basically putting the vote into its grave. A shame though, this was a good proposal.
by Honeydewistania » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:41 am
Praeceps wrote:Honeydewistania wrote:TNP were annoyed that they didn’t get the credit due for helping protect WZEU. Also the telegram annoyed XKI so they changed their vote, basically putting the vote into its grave. A shame though, this was a good proposal.
It's not about credit—it is disputing the role that Apulita had in securing the region. Even if it was noted in the resolution that a large part of security was through the alliances, I still don't think Apulita is commendable.
Alger wrote:if you have egoquotes in your signature, touch grass
by Honeydewistania » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:21 am
Alger wrote:if you have egoquotes in your signature, touch grass
by Alnorud » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:51 am
Rossiyaana wrote:I believe Kuriko-- and maybe as a result WALL-- voted against because Alno violated XKI's WA campaign law.
Praeceps wrote:It's not about credit—it is disputing the role that Apulita had in securing the region. Even if it was noted in the resolution that a large part of security was through the alliances, I still don't think Apulita is commendable.
by Praeceps » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:27 pm
It is my personal opinion which it would appear that a large number of other individuals share.Praeceps wrote:It's not about credit—it is disputing the role that Apulita had in securing the region. Even if it was noted in the resolution that a large part of security was through the alliances, I still don't think Apulita is commendable.
Well, that's your personal opinion, on which we disagree. However the recommendation of The North Pacific does not state whether Apulita is commendable or not, it mainly gives a few suggestions (Such as explaining what Apulita did in their various roles), state their opinion that it relies too much on their Longest Delegacy (Which is debatable since it's a unique case in NS History and only two clauses reference it as their main points) and say that the Dominion's allies should be mentioned because of their piling operations and Protectorate agreement.
by Apulita » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:06 pm
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