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by Freest Freedonia » Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:04 pm
by Hexxon » Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:14 pm
Official Statement:
We cannot support anti-choice bills regarding abortion, as citizens have the right to choose to have a child. Forcing women to bear a child brings forth many ethical concerns, and has long lasting effects on the family on the child, and the child itself.
However, we do believe that the nations of the world should be free to determine their own agenda without World Assembly interference. Therefore we choose to abstain.
by New France and New Spain » Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:38 pm
by Andaristiva » Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:46 pm
Heavens Reach wrote:All of the concerns expressed about the original bill under consideration can be addressed by putting to vote subsequent bills which specifically target the relevant grievances. There is no need to repeal the whole bill and end the international right to safe abortion access just because the bill is, ostensibly, not completely perfect (assuming that we grant that the aforementioned concerns represent flaws that need to be addressed). Either way, I'm against the repeal.
Prydania wrote:The fact is that the disparity between the pro-life and pro-choice camps is so great that the pro-life camp's continued Sisyphian efforts are a waste of everyone's time- including their own.
The pro-life side says they need to compromise. Why should the pro-choice side compromise when they have such an overwhelming majority?
The pro-life side says that repealing Reproductive Freedoms is the only way to end the constant discussion around it- ignoring the fact that they are a vocal, tiny minority.
The pro-life side switches from argument to argument. Be it national sovereignty, to "abortion is wrong" to religious freedom to "sex should only be for procreation" to "but late term and sex-specific abortions!" It, as a faction, will do and say anything to try and get their fringe view a wider following.
All in all? I'm just sick of the pro-life side in this game. Not "IC," but OOC as well. They're a small, fringe minority. They purposefully pump themselves up to be bigger than they are to try and force an unneeded compromise or try and scare the WA into giving them what they want. When, in reality, they are so small in number that every attempt to repeal the targeted resolution falls apart like an egg splattering on a brick wall.
It isn't so much the constant repeal attempts that bother me. They all fail. It's the way the pro-life side carries itself. It's a small, fringe group of radicals who believe they have the literal G-d given right to impose their morality on a majority that wants nothing to do with them. Everything they do- from the calls for a compromise to the bluff that they'd just go away if everyone gave them what they'd want- is disingenuous.
by Wallenburg » Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:49 pm
Andaristiva wrote:Heavens Reach wrote:All of the concerns expressed about the original bill under consideration can be addressed by putting to vote subsequent bills which specifically target the relevant grievances. There is no need to repeal the whole bill and end the international right to safe abortion access just because the bill is, ostensibly, not completely perfect (assuming that we grant that the aforementioned concerns represent flaws that need to be addressed). Either way, I'm against the repeal.
Did you not read the section of the repeal that mentions resolution GA#128, or bother finding out what it meant? That resolution covered the right to abortion perfectly adequately before Reproductive Freedoms was published, and would cover it perfectly adequately if Reproductive Freedoms was repealed. It is Reproductive Freedoms that is lacking, and it is lacking because it is overly divisive. If we just repealed it, it seems to me that everything ought to be in agreement. So why haven't we?
Andaristiva wrote:Also, I object to your denigration of those who disagree with you. You complain about "the way the pro-life side carries itself", but it seems to me that you, who are supposed to be 'pro-choice,' carry yourself in much the same manner. You "pump [yourself] up to be bigger than [you] are" by dismissing those against you as a "tiny minority." If the repealers were truly a "tiny minority," then they wouldn't represent over a fifth of those who have currently voted on the repeal. They are a minority, I will admit, and too small to make the changes that may be necessary, but they are certainly not "tiny." You "switch from argument to argument" by first calling it a waste of time, then utilising the 'majority is right' fallacy- which can be used to justify genocide- before turning to attack the opposition, many of whom have many valid reasons to oppose you, all of which you utterly ignore and dismiss, purely because they wish to tell you all these reasons- it is not switching from argument to argument to just list off all the reasons why one disagrees. You "impose your morality on" those who "want nothing to do with [you]" by continually vilifying your opposition, suggesting that you consider them immoral, and therefore that only your way is moral.
Maybe standing by the repealers is a waste of time, perhaps it may even be unjust, but I'll take them over dogmatic 'pro-choice' extremists who refuse to respect the other side's democratic right to disagree with them. You make me feel ashamed to stand for rights over my own body.
by Andaristiva » Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:54 pm
Wallenburg wrote:Apparently we should repeal all resolutions that don't enjoy more than 80% support at any given time. That's certainly a novel idea.
by The New California Republic » Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:57 pm
Andaristiva wrote:Maybe standing by the repealers is a waste of time, perhaps it may even be unjust, but I'll take them over dogmatic 'pro-choice' extremists who refuse to respect the other side's democratic right to disagree with them. You make me feel ashamed to stand for rights over my own body.
by Separatist Peoples » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:01 pm
Andaristiva wrote:Wallenburg wrote:Apparently we should repeal all resolutions that don't enjoy more than 80% support at any given time. That's certainly a novel idea.
I didn't say that less than 80% support is enough to justify repealing. Just enough that the dissenters can't be called a "tiny minority."
by Boscaza » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:19 pm
by Ave Gloriana » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:36 pm
by Wallenburg » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:55 pm
Boscaza wrote:"THEY MADE ABORTIONS LEGAL FOR ALL NATIONS AS A MANDATE? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! I swear to Violet, I'm gonna go abort the World assembly staff!"
- Quote from Boxan Carza, Grand Organizer of Boscaza.
-----------------------------
Upon reading the resolution this new resolution seeks to repeal, a near-universal reaction among generals and ministers was a state of being apalled.
While the state government of Boscaza cares little for what their civilians individually do, the Reproductive Freedoms forces a law
on all nations, some or all of whom may not want to have their own internal policy dominated by a tyrannical outside group.
Thus, Boscaza is firmly for this repealing resolution.
by Araraukar » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:55 pm
Ave Gloriana wrote:We believe that this resolution is the least worst option. We therefore support the repeal of mandated infanticide-on-demand.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Imperium Anglorum » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:00 pm
by Outer Sparta » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:20 pm
Ave Gloriana wrote:We believe that this resolution is the least worst option. We therefore support the repeal of mandated infanticide-on-demand.
by Eastern Midwest States » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:21 pm
by Goldenson » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:23 pm
by Potted Plants United » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:23 pm
Eastern Midwest States wrote:OOC: Is there a way I can search for the two resolutions that have been frequently mentioned?
Separatist Peoples wrote:"NOPENOPENOPENOPENOPENOPENOPENOPE!"
- Mr. Bell, when introduced to PPU's newest moving plant
by Prydania » Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:58 pm
Andaristiva wrote:You make me feel ashamed to stand for rights over my own body.
You "pump [yourself] up to be bigger than [you] are" by dismissing those against you as a "tiny minority." If the repealers were truly a "tiny minority," then they wouldn't represent over a fifth of those who have currently voted on the repeal. They are a minority, I will admit, and too small to make the changes that may be necessary, but they are certainly not "tiny."
You "switch from argument to argument" by first calling it a waste of time, then utilising the 'majority is right' fallacy- which can be used to justify genocide- before turning to attack the opposition, many of whom have many valid reasons to oppose you, all of which you utterly ignore and dismiss, purely because they wish to tell you all these reasons- it is not switching from argument to argument to just list off all the reasons why one disagrees. You "impose your morality on" those who "want nothing to do with [you]" by continually vilifying your opposition, suggesting that you consider them immoral, and therefore that only your way is moral.
Maybe standing by the repealers is a waste of time, perhaps it may even be unjust, but I'll take them over dogmatic 'pro-choice' extremists who refuse to respect the other side's democratic right to disagree with them.
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:07 pm
by Prydania » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:19 pm
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:OOC: I swear by the year 2400 CE, when the USS Enterprise cruises amongst the stars we will be opening every WA meeting with a ceremonious vote on the repeal of GA286 (if by some miraculous event NS is still ongoing that is).
by Inner Neptondia » Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:02 pm
by BlackLight Covenant » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:30 pm
Mylo-Xylo wrote:BlackLight Covenant wrote:OOC: so how many times are we gonna keep trying this until people realize that Reproductive Freedoms is up there with GAR#10 when it comes to being impossible to repeal? It feels like we're just playing the same broken record over and over again at this point, as this really ain't going anywhere.
This shouldn't be a WA issue in the first place. It's an attempt to silence the right. This should be an issue that each nations should choose to deal with as they please. The WA created this mess themselves.
by Unibot III » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:24 am
Aware that the radical approach of the target resolution has only caused division within this assembly, including 5 defeated repeal attempts
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Varmhjarta » Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:35 am
Inner Neptondia wrote:Your entire reason to repeal this bill is based on, at best, severe misunderstanding of what the Bill actually stands for. When people advocate for abortion we are not advocating for the murder of an already born infant, no matter the scenario. And, objectively speaking, abortion is literally just a medical procedure. It's the removal of a small clump of cells in a person's - because not JUST women can get pregnant, but that's a topic for another time - body. So long as the fetus is still within the parent's body, the parent has full control of what to do with it. I vote against this repeal.
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