[Defeated] Repeal "Reproductive Freedoms"

[Separatist Peoples]

"We haven't written it yet, but the title will be something like "Abortionplexes for All"."

"Unfortunately the circumstances do not allow me to support such proposal, however, your jokes have been noted."

"Who's joking? If this passes, I'm taking advantage of the opening."

[Marxist Germany]

"Unfortunately the circumstances do not allow me to support such proposal, however, your jokes have been noted."

"Who's joking? If this passes, I'm taking advantage of the opening."

"Ambassador, I believe this isn't a comedy show. Your idea is far too controversial to pass."

[Separatist Peoples]

"Who's joking? If this passes, I'm taking advantage of the opening."

"Ambassador, I believe this isn't a comedy show. Your idea is far too controversial to pass."

"Ambassador, your tenure is relatively short thus far. Conversely, I've been here ten years. I've seen the World Space Administration pass when it shouldn't have. I've seen the Imperium Anglorum delegation pass a one line resolution. I've even see a repeal of Rights and Duties take a majority of votes. I've passed more than ten resolutions, most of which seriously curtailed the rights of individual member states to wage war, their most desperately protected right. I've never once seen a pro-life resolution come close to succeeding.

"Take a moment and think about that. Then tell me that I can't pass a resolution like that."

[The New California Republic]

"Who's joking? If this passes, I'm taking advantage of the opening."

"Ambassador, I believe this isn't a comedy show. Your idea is far too controversial to pass."

Wrong actually. The momentum in the WA, should #286 ever be repealed, is behind more abortion rights rather than less. Just to let you know what you'll be unleashing.

[Losthaven]

It is worth bearing in mind, as I mentioned earlier, that at least some pro-choice nations who voted for Reproductive Freedoms did so not necessarily because it was terribly well-written or personally agreeable resolution but because it ended the constant pro-life onslaught against the (now eminently reasonable looking) On Abortion. A similar thing could happen given the constant onslaught against Reproductive Freedoms.

I am one of the less-rabid pro-choice voices. I can empathize with the view that a reasonable line ought to be drawn somewhere after which it's no longer appropriate to permit an abortion. I can understand that not all pro-life viewpoints are motivated by misogyny and religious dogmatism, and that most actually come from the view that abortion is a form of infanticide (I don't share that view, but I can understand it). Reproductive Freedom allows limits on abortion procedures in cases of fetal viability to protect the life of the infant. But don't think that there's no appetite in this assembly for an even more progressive law (from the point of view of female bodily autonomy) that would make it even easier and faster to obtain an abortion, fetal viability be damned.

[The New California Republic]

It is worth bearing in mind, as I mentioned earlier, that at least some pro-choice nations who voted for Reproductive Freedoms did so not necessarily because it was terribly well-written or personally agreeable resolution but because it ended the constant pro-life onslaught against the (now eminently reasonable looking) On Abortion. A similar thing could happen given the constant onslaught against Reproductive Freedoms.

It comes down to whether pro-life nations feel it is worth gambling a repeal of #286, as there is a very real risk that something far more unpalatable to them could take its place, as plenty of heavy hitting pro-choice nations have said that they'd be willing to draft such a thing to take its place. As I said earlier regarding the weight of the WA being pro-choice, if I was pro-life I certainly wouldn't want to take a gamble that could ultimately end up being self-defeating.

[Losthaven]

It comes down to whether pro-life nations feel it is worth gambling a repeal of #286, as there is a very real risk that something far more unpalatable to them could take its place, as plenty of heavy hitting pro-choice nations have said that they'd be willing to draft such a thing to take its place. As I said earlier regarding the weight of the WA being pro-choice, if I was pro-life I certainly wouldn't want to take a gamble that could ultimately end up being self-defeating.

Yes well the problem for pro-life nations is that they had a perfectly reasonable On Abortion which only required member nations to legalize abortion in limited circumstances. But they kept trying to get rid of it, so along came an even more pro-choice law which in principle requires allowing abortion in all circumstances with (perhaps) some limits in cases of fetal viability.

RF has some ambiguous language and exploitable loopholes which at least some of the pro-choice community is willing to acknowledge and tolerate. But the clamoring to repeal it may well eventually backfire (as did the clamoring to repeal OA) and result in an even more pro-choice law, or at least one that cleans up the ambiguities of RF.

Edit: I for one welcome the repeal of RF if it would actually pave the way for a less-ambiguous replacement expressly requiring that abortion be provided in a timely, accessible manner at any time prior to fetal viability (and without the middle fingers aimed at pro-life nations that I feel are a bit inappropriate for the side that thinks of itself as claiming the moral high ground).

[The New California Republic]

It comes down to whether pro-life nations feel it is worth gambling a repeal of #286, as there is a very real risk that something far more unpalatable to them could take its place, as plenty of heavy hitting pro-choice nations have said that they'd be willing to draft such a thing to take its place. As I said earlier regarding the weight of the WA being pro-choice, if I was pro-life I certainly wouldn't want to take a gamble that could ultimately end up being self-defeating.

Yes well the problem for pro-life nations is that they had a perfectly reasonable On Abortion which only required member nations to legalize abortion in limited circumstances. But they kept trying to get rid of it, so along came an even more pro-choice law which in principle requires allowing abortion in all circumstances with (perhaps) some limits in cases of fetal viability.

RF has some ambiguous language and exploitable loopholes which at least some of the pro-choice community is willing to acknowledge and tolerate. But the clamoring to repeal it may well eventually backfire (as did the clamoring to repeal OA) and result in an even more pro-choice law, or at least one that cleans up the ambiguities of RF.

Indeed. You'd think that pro-life nations would have a "once bitten twice shy" attitude because of how the constant attempts to get rid of On Abortion majorly backfired for them by pushing the WA further into the pro-choice camp, but I guess not.

[Araraukar]

Indeed. You'd think that pro-life nations would have a "once bitten twice shy" attitude because of how the constant attempts to get rid of On Abortion majorly backfired for them by pushing the WA further into the pro-choice camp, but I guess not.

OOC: Maybe they're all dog-owners? Getting nibbled is basically a given if you're a dog-owner. Or a cat owner for that matter, but cats don't actively chew things.

[WayNeacTia]

"Unfortunately the circumstances do not allow me to support such proposal, however, your jokes have been noted."

"Who's joking? If this passes, I'm taking advantage of the opening."

"Perhaps a modicum of common sense can prevail? How about a good ol' fashioned blocker to put this issue where it belongs, in the hands of national governments?"

Wayne

[Attempted Socialism]

"Who's joking? If this passes, I'm taking advantage of the opening."

"Perhaps a modicum of common sense can prevail? How about a good ol' fashioned blocker to put this issue where it belongs, in the hands of national governments?"

Wayne

"The rights of women should not be left to backwards, oppressive and anti-women governments - that is common sense. We have made a good compromise with the two resolutions on the subject, On Abortion and Reproductive Freedoms. It would behoove the anti-choice crowd to accept that a compromise has been reached, and that it is the best compromise they can ever hope for."

[Kenmoria]

(OOC: Wallenburg has drafted a proposal, ‘Reproductive Freedoms II: Abortion Boogaloo’, that seems similar to what SP is thinking of drafting. Assuming this repeal does pass, that measure seems the most likely to be a replacement. I also will be drafting a proposal with a similar effect of allowing abortion-on-demand, in that eventuality.)

[Separatist Peoples]

"Who's joking? If this passes, I'm taking advantage of the opening."

"Perhaps a modicum of common sense can prevail? How about a good ol' fashioned blocker to put this issue where it belongs, in the hands of national governments?"

Wayne

"On demand abortions is common sense policy to my mind. Statistics suggest the pro-choice camp doesn't need to compromise with a blocker. So, how does it benefit us to seek one?"

[MineLegotia and Equestria]

"For, fully"

[Attempted Socialism]

(OOC: Wallenburg has drafted a proposal, ‘Reproductive Freedoms II: Abortion Boogaloo’, that seems similar to what SP is thinking of drafting. Assuming this repeal does pass, that measure seems the most likely to be a replacement. I also will be drafting a proposal with a similar effect of allowing abortion-on-demand, in that eventuality.)

OOC: After seeing what a replacement looks like, I might also be in favour of repealing RF. Not gonna lie, replacing a compromise like RF with a more progressive pro-choice resolution would be preferable if it's an option.

[The New California Republic]

(OOC: Wallenburg has drafted a proposal, ‘Reproductive Freedoms II: Abortion Boogaloo’, that seems similar to what SP is thinking of drafting. Assuming this repeal does pass, that measure seems the most likely to be a replacement. I also will be drafting a proposal with a similar effect of allowing abortion-on-demand, in that eventuality.)

OOC: After seeing what a replacement looks like, I might also be in favour of repealing RF. Not gonna lie, replacing a compromise like RF with a more progressive pro-choice resolution would be preferable if it's an option.

A part of me has always thought that it'd be fun if a pro-choice nation did repeal it, on the pretext of replacing it with a drafted proposal that is waiting to be submitted after the major delegates have hinted at backing it. But as it stands, I'm happy for RF to stay on the books for the time being.

[Attempted Socialism]

OOC: After seeing what a replacement looks like, I might also be in favour of repealing RF. Not gonna lie, replacing a compromise like RF with a more progressive pro-choice resolution would be preferable if it's an option.

A part of me has always thought that it'd be fun if a pro-choice nation did repeal it, on the pretext of replacing it with a drafted proposal that is waiting to be submitted after the major delegates have hinted at backing it. But as it stands, I'm happy for RF to stay on the books for the time being.

Yeah, perhaps I should have made it clear that I prefer a non-compromising resolution in the abstract, but I wouldn't support a repeal of RF unless I was fairly certain the replacement would pass.

[Dirty Americans]

"Perhaps a modicum of common sense can prevail? How about a good ol' fashioned blocker to put this issue where it belongs, in the hands of national governments?"

"If people were of common mind and sense, there would be no need for a blocker. On Abortion is as good enough a blocker as most pro-choice nations would need. to quote from paragraph seven, 'INSISTS that all member nations retain the ability to legalize abortion for purposes not covered under the preceding clauses either unilaterally within their own jurisdiction or collectively through World Assembly resolution.' That's right, the only thing we can do under On Abortion is to make more things universally legal. The WA has no authority to make things universally illegal under On Abortion. Reproductive Freedoms is merely some pissant despot trying to force his will on other nations - bless their hearts. On Abortion is all that we need, although that is strictly from a Nat Sov perspective."

[Kenmoria]

"Perhaps a modicum of common sense can prevail? How about a good ol' fashioned blocker to put this issue where it belongs, in the hands of national governments?"

"If people were of common mind and sense, there would be no need for a blocker. On Abortion is as good enough a blocker as most pro-choice nations would need. to quote from paragraph seven, 'INSISTS that all member nations retain the ability to legalize abortion for purposes not covered under the preceding clauses either unilaterally within their own jurisdiction or collectively through World Assembly resolution.' That's right, the only thing we can do under On Abortion is to make more things universally legal. The WA has no authority to make things universally illegal under On Abortion. Reproductive Freedoms is merely some pissant despot trying to force his will on other nations - bless their hearts. On Abortion is all that we need, although that is strictly from a Nat Sov perspective."

(OOC: A compromise is only necessary when both sides have no way of getting what they desire, so both of them can only have some of their needs met. In this instance, the pro-choice members of this assembly are perfectly able to achieve their legislative needs, so having a blocker for a middle ground is simply unneeded. Indeed, I don’t see much purpose in repealing Reproductive Freedoms since the pro-choice crowd have such legislative clout.)

[WayNeacTia]

"Perhaps a modicum of common sense can prevail? How about a good ol' fashioned blocker to put this issue where it belongs, in the hands of national governments?"

Wayne

"On demand abortions is common sense policy to my mind. Statistics suggest the pro-choice camp doesn't need to compromise with a blocker. So, how does it benefit us to seek one?"

"It keeps both sides at bay, and we can finally stop hearing about this shit, over, and over and over to infinity."

Wayne

[Losthaven]

"On demand abortions is common sense policy to my mind. Statistics suggest the pro-choice camp doesn't need to compromise with a blocker. So, how does it benefit us to seek one?"

"It keeps both sides at bay, and we can finally stop hearing about this shit, over, and over and over to infinity."

Wayne

I suppose you would have us also pass blockers that defer to national governments on all controversial civil rights issues, simply so we don't have to debate them.

[Wallenburg]

"On demand abortions is common sense policy to my mind. Statistics suggest the pro-choice camp doesn't need to compromise with a blocker. So, how does it benefit us to seek one?"

"It keeps both sides at bay, and we can finally stop hearing about this shit, over, and over and over to infinity."

Wayne

We already have an effectively unrepealable resolution on abortion that presumably should help us "stop hearing about this shit". It's called Reproductive Freedoms.

[WayNeacTia]

"It keeps both sides at bay, and we can finally stop hearing about this shit, over, and over and over to infinity."

Wayne

I suppose you would have us also pass blockers that defer to national governments on all controversial civil rights issues, simply so we don't have to debate them.

"Not necessarily. Unfortunately abortion is not a civil right."

Wayne

[Separatist Peoples]

I suppose you would have us also pass blockers that defer to national governments on all controversial civil rights issues, simply so we don't have to debate them.

"Not necessarily. Unfortunately abortion is not a civil right."

Wayne

"Clearly it is, as it is a guaranteed right under WA law enforceable against states. The definition of a civil right."

[Separatist Peoples]

"On demand abortions is common sense policy to my mind. Statistics suggest the pro-choice camp doesn't need to compromise with a blocker. So, how does it benefit us to seek one?"

"It keeps both sides at bay, and we can finally stop hearing about this shit, over, and over and over to infinity."

Wayne

"Further, it strikes me that if guaranteeing half the population a right to control their own bodies comes at the price of enduring reactionary bickering, then we should count it as a bargain."