[PASSED] Affordable Transgender Hormone Therapy

[Shaktirajya]

We, the People's Hindu Matriarchy of Shaktirajya, hereby vote FOR this resolution. In accordance with Hindu tradition, We have always acknowledged the existence of a third gender i.e. Tritiya Prakriti (Sanskrit. "third nature"), and, being a socialist nation, We believe that all sensible people should recognize that a post-scarcity society is easily achievable by all and for all.

Vaktaha Samajavadinaha Matarajyasya Shaktirajyasya

[Wallenburg]

Heaven officially declared war on the world assembly. The reason for this declaration is as follows: Mandating the normalization and acceptance of degenerate transsexuals, Seeking to put men in women’s prisons, and worst of all defiling the image of God with unnatural hormones.

All who stand for decency unite against this anti moral menace!

Hail Christ!!!

Unnatural hormones? Lul.

[Itchalia]

I am interested in the vast amount of people stating that this not being a mental condition. It was to the whole wide world a known fact that trans people feel uncomfortable with their gender due to a mental condition. It was only when the LGBT community started becoming more and more opponent to this fact when this notion was disregarded and it is also widely known that the scientific community is extremely biased and misleading more than ever since the 1600s. I have family and friends that are transgender so do not mistake me for dislike or discomfort but i do, and so do the people that call themselves transgender that ive spoken to, believe that this is a mental condition. I also opposed this due to the fact that i am uncomfortable giving children hormone therapy as i feel this causes health risks during puberty and growth. Imo, it should not be done until at least the age of 19.

[Fushiya]

I see a lot about children getting involved.

Unless I've missed something, we are still free to regulate the age limit of those subject to hormone therapy, no? As well as the financial cost of the therapy...in what we deem "affordable"

[San Felix]

"San Felix values individualism and liberty over all values. Gender Identity is considered a personal freedom and a human right. We officially state our approval of the resolution in question. We're voting FOR. It has been scientifically proved that transgender citizens are not mentally sick or suffer from any kind of mental disease that requires professional help, and that gender and sex are not the same. We hope that this resolution will encourage more nations to consider their laws regarding gender identity discrimination and we hope that they strive for progress and acceptance of all human, alien or any type of beings on their nations.

Our only issue with the resolution is the lack of clarity on the "consenting individuals" part. Are nations allowed to decide what counts as "consenting individuals" or there will be set rules for this matter?"

[Kenmoria]

I see a lot about children getting involved.

Unless I've missed something, we are still free to regulate the age limit of those subject to hormone therapy, no? As well as the financial cost of the therapy...in what we deem "affordable"

(OOC: You may only limit access to children if the children cannot properly consent. For instance, a twelve year old does not have the capability to think and evaluate options in the same extent a forty year old can, so there must be limitations. Provided you maintain a good-faith approach, and don’t make the age something such as eighty, an age limit would be compliant. Also, long as it remains affordable, yes you can regulate the financial cost.)

"Our only issue with the resolution is the lack of clarity on the "consenting individuals" part. Are nations allowed to decide what counts as "consenting individuals" or there will be set rules for this matter?"

“A consenting individual is, in the simplest terms, a natural person who has the ability to weigh up decisions and comes to a given conclusion willingly. A member nations must make a good-faith effort to ascertain who fits that criteria, though the individual methods may vary.”

[Aquind]

What exactly does the resolution mean by "affordable"? Will unregulated hormone therapy be allowed with no interference by the state?

[Paleoconservative Citizens]

After much thought, and speaking with my advisors, the nation of Paleoconservative Citizens has decided that it no longer wants to be World Assembly member. Paleoconservative Citizens is a conservative nation built upon the principle teachings of Christianity, and the people of USPC will not stand for anything that goes against the founding principles of this nation.

[Fushiya]

I see a lot about children getting involved.

Unless I've missed something, we are still free to regulate the age limit of those subject to hormone therapy, no? As well as the financial cost of the therapy...in what we deem "affordable"

(OOC: You may only limit access to children if the children cannot properly consent. For instance, a twelve year old does not have the capability to think and evaluate options in the same extent a forty year old can, so there must be limitations. Provided you maintain a good-faith approach, and don’t make the age something such as eighty, an age limit would be compliant. Also, long as it remains affordable, yes you can regulate the financial cost.)

Thank you for the information.
Yes, our limit age of consent is 20 as Grandfather believes even at 18, most of the youth are still dumb and reckless...or rather any with teen at the end. Some never cease to be but demographically it is empirically proven.

I pray the GA does not watch us too closely on our financial regulations then...for the sake of sparing you the resources and heaps of paperwork of course, oh yes indeed.

[Araraukar]

"Perfect, so we can finally fix the problem by extreme rehabilitation programs."

IC: "Which are called "conversion therapy", are torture, do not work, and also literally forbidden by the World Assembly legislation."

What makes a man different than a woman? Anatomy, and psychology.

OOC: So a transgender individual already fits half of your definitions (psychology).

What defines a gender is subjective in all cultures using it.

IC: "Do you identify as male or female? Or something else entirely? If you have a gender identity, why do you think other people would not? What makes you experience more valid than that of others?"

a small minority

OOC: Not as small as you think, but as you can see, the proposal is of Mild strength.

I am interested in the vast amount of people stating that this not being a mental condition.

OOC: Mental condition =/= mental illness. Shyness is a mental condition, as are all emotions.

I also opposed this due to the fact that i am uncomfortable giving children hormone therapy as i feel this causes health risks during puberty and growth. Imo, it should not be done until at least the age of 19.

You've missed the point about consent. A child under the age of majority cannot consent, legally. (Possibly unless their parents consent on their behalf - which is actually mandated by an existing resolution and cannot be contradicted by this one.)

I see a lot about children getting involved.

Unless I've missed something, we are still free to regulate the age limit of those subject to hormone therapy, no? As well as the financial cost of the therapy...in what we deem "affordable"

OOC: You're free to regulate the age of majority. Also, it's not like "affordable" is difficult to understand, so you can't screw up the price to whatever.

What exactly does the resolution mean by "affordable"? Will unregulated hormone therapy be allowed with no interference by the state?

OOC: It's not unregulated. You're just not allowed to forbid it from someone for the purpose stated in the proposal. And affordable is not really a difficult word to understand. If you have trouble with it, I suggest looking it up in a dictionary.

Paleoconservative Citizens is a conservative nation built upon the principle teachings of Christianity, and the people of USPC will not stand for anything that goes against the founding principles of this nation.

OOC: Point out to me where in the Bible it says anything about transgender people. But if you're leaving the WA over this, then byebyes, don't walk into the door on your way out.

[San Felix]

I am interested in the vast amount of people stating that this not being a mental condition. It was to the whole wide world a known fact that trans people feel uncomfortable with their gender due to a mental condition. It was only when the LGBT community started becoming more and more opponent to this fact when this notion was disregarded and it is also widely known that the scientific community is extremely biased and misleading more than ever since the 1600s. I have family and friends that are transgender so do not mistake me for dislike or discomfort but i do, and so do the people that call themselves transgender that ive spoken to, believe that this is a mental condition. I also opposed this due to the fact that i am uncomfortable giving children hormone therapy as i feel this causes health risks during puberty and growth. Imo, it should not be done until at least the age of 19.

Now, let's just look at each one of your arguments real quick.

1- "It was to the whole wide world a known fact that trans people feel uncomfortable with their gender due to a mental condition".

Humans used to believe the Earth was flat, including several scientists and scholars, but after new evidence, we discovered that this just isn't true, and science quickly rectified on this issue and acknowledged that the Earth is round. Facts change, new evidence arrives, new studies are made, new results are reviewed, new conclusions are accepted. Things change and everybody can get it wrong sometimes, including science. Remember that homosexuality was also classified as a "mental disorder" before new studies showing that it's obviously not. If you can't accept the new facts, then you're stuck in the past.

2- "It is also widely known that the scientific community is extremely biased and misleading more than ever since the 1600's".

No. It is not. I should not be explaining this to you. But here we go. Nothing is 100% reliable. Yes, science might not be perfect and some studies are biased or plain wrong, but it's still much more reliable than anything else. Science is a reliable source for truth, you just have to deal with the fact that we keep learning more. And as long as we're still on the face of this earth, this will never change. You just can't say that science nowadays is more biased or inaccurate, when there have always been poorly made studies or researches, but these sloppy attempts at science are the reason we constantly doubt and check, and recheck. Science has served us better than anything else at finding the truth. Besides, if everything you read is bullcrap, you might wanna consider where you're getting your sources. Science hasn't changed, is just as reliable now as it was in the past. Again, you're just stuck in the past and refuse to acknowledge new information.

3- "I have family and friends that are transgender so do not mistake me for dislike or discomfort but i do, and so do the people that call themselves transgender that ive spoken to, believe that this is a mental condition."

Having "transgender friends" (considering how you're talking about trans people in general, I highly doubt you have transgender friends) does not make you right. This is the same as saying "I've got black friends!!!!! I CaN't BeE raCIsSt!!!!1!111". This is not a valid argument, and it will never be.

So, I hope you can reconsider your position and reexamine your views, because, frankly, they're outdated.

[Paleoconservative Citizens]

"Perfect, so we can finally fix the problem by extreme rehabilitation programs."

IC: "Which are called "conversion therapy", are torture, do not work, and also literally forbidden by the World Assembly legislation."

What makes a man different than a woman? Anatomy, and psychology.

OOC: So a transgender individual already fits half of your definitions (psychology).

What defines a gender is subjective in all cultures using it.

IC: "Do you identify as male or female? Or something else entirely? If you have a gender identity, why do you think other people would not? What makes you experience more valid than that of others?"

a small minority

OOC: Not as small as you think, but as you can see, the proposal is of Mild strength.

I am interested in the vast amount of people stating that this not being a mental condition.

OOC: Mental condition =/= mental illness. Shyness is a mental condition, as are all emotions.

I also opposed this due to the fact that i am uncomfortable giving children hormone therapy as i feel this causes health risks during puberty and growth. Imo, it should not be done until at least the age of 19.

You've missed the point about consent. A child under the age of majority cannot consent, legally. (Possibly unless their parents consent on their behalf - which is actually mandated by an existing resolution and cannot be contradicted by this one.)

I see a lot about children getting involved.

Unless I've missed something, we are still free to regulate the age limit of those subject to hormone therapy, no? As well as the financial cost of the therapy...in what we deem "affordable"

OOC: You're free to regulate the age of majority. Also, it's not like "affordable" is difficult to understand, so you can't screw up the price to whatever.

What exactly does the resolution mean by "affordable"? Will unregulated hormone therapy be allowed with no interference by the state?

OOC: It's not unregulated. You're just not allowed to forbid it from someone for the purpose stated in the proposal. And affordable is not really a difficult word to understand. If you have trouble with it, I suggest looking it up in a dictionary.

Paleoconservative Citizens is a conservative nation built upon the principle teachings of Christianity, and the people of USPC will not stand for anything that goes against the founding principles of this nation.

OOC: Point out to me where in the Bible it says anything about transgender people. But if you're leaving the WA over this, then byebyes, don't walk into the door on your way out.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:27 ESV

"A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.
Deuteronomy 22:5 ESV

[Araraukar]

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:27 ESV

OOC: So by your logic, it's the humans classifying me as a girl at birth made a mistake, because naturally your god is infallible?

"A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.
Deuteronomy 22:5 ESV

...you are aware that pants didn't exist back then, yes? So everyone was wearing robes and skirts. Possibly loincloths. So, what is "a man's garment" or a "woman's cloak"?

EDIT: Also, please learn to spoiler long quoted posts.

[Marxist Germany]

After much thought, and speaking with my advisors, the nation of Paleoconservative Citizens has decided that it no longer wants to be World Assembly member. Paleoconservative Citizens is a conservative nation built upon the principle teachings of Christianity, and the people of USPC will not stand for anything that goes against the founding principles of this nation.

"You won't be missed, ambassador."

[Marxist Germany]

"Due to the certain wording of clause two that doesn't force member states to provide affordable therapy inside its borders, Marxist Germany will provide cheap access to our neighbour, France, which offers cheap hormone therapy. I encourage other frustrated ambassadors to follow this certain interpretation and avoid the penalties that come with noncompliance."

[Paleoconservative Citizens]

After much thought, and speaking with my advisors, the nation of Paleoconservative Citizens has decided that it no longer wants to be World Assembly member. Paleoconservative Citizens is a conservative nation built upon the principle teachings of Christianity, and the people of USPC will not stand for anything that goes against the founding principles of this nation.

"You won't be missed, ambassador."

As if I want to be missed.

[San Felix]

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:27 ESV

"A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.
Deuteronomy 22:5 ESV

"Wasn't the Old Testament abolished by Jesus Christ, ambassador?

Romans 10:4 - 'Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.'

Galatians 5:18 - 'But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.'

Galatians 3:11 - 'Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”'

So, which one is it? Do you follow the Old Testament or the teachings of Christ? Because clearly, the Bible says you can't follow both."

[Paleoconservative Citizens]

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Genesis 1:27 ESV

"A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.
Deuteronomy 22:5 ESV

"Wasn't the Old Testament abolished by Jesus Christ, ambassador?

Romans 10:4 - 'Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.'

Galatians 5:18 - 'But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.'

Galatians 3:11 - 'Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”'

So, which one is it? Do you follow the Old Testament or the teachings of Christ? Because clearly, the Bible says you can't follow both."

That is false. As Jesus said,
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Matthew 5:17 ESV

Paul is saying that we are not under the law as means of salvation.

[West Heisen]

OOC: Sex and Gender are and have always been synonymous, and I have not yet seen a compelling argument as to why they are suddenly different now. Also, aren't 'gender roles' against the very nature of progressivism? Men and women can do whatever they want; their gender is irrelevant, yes? Men and women do different things naturally, it's part of the biological differences, but we shouldn't act as though liking 'girly' things makes you a girl, for example. Also, people who claim they are non binary do exist, but non binary people don't exist. One could say there is a spectrum from male personality/behaviour to female, but not perfectly fitting into the stereotypical man/woman category doesn't mean you are something else entirely. People often bring up intersex, but that is 1. simply a genetic abnormality, just as someone might be born with 6 fingers, and 2. the said person almost always has very defining characteristics of one gender, they are not directly in between.

Furthermore, if I told you I was a dragon, you obviously wouldn't believe it. If I told you I was a woman, you probably would believe it. It doesn't really matter. Personally, I choose to judge people based on the content of their character, not whatever they 'identify' as. So there's really no need to tell people what you 'identify' as, since it has no tangible effect on anything.

(OOC: Sex and gender have not always been synonymous, and transgender people have a long history throughout civilisation. Besides, even if they are, you admit that men and women should be able to do what they want. Why shouldn’t they be allowed to take hormone therapy to feel comfortable?)

OOC: I never said they shouldn't be allowed. I'm saying that the government should not be involved, whether it be by regulating business or providing the service themselves. I was saying that 'non binary' is not a legitimate thing.

[San Felix]

"Wasn't the Old Testament abolished by Jesus Christ, ambassador?

Romans 10:4 - 'Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.'

Galatians 5:18 - 'But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.'

Galatians 3:11 - 'Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”'

So, which one is it? Do you follow the Old Testament or the teachings of Christ? Because clearly, the Bible says you can't follow both."

That is false. As Jesus said,
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Matthew 5:17 ESV

Paul is saying that we are not under the law as means of salvation.

Jesus fulfilled the law by fulfilling the prophecies that announced his arrival. He abolished the law by imposing his new law: Galatians 6:2 - "Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and in this way you will fulfill the law of the Christ."

What was this new law?: John 13:34, 35 - I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.”

Are you proving to be a disciple of his by not showing love and acceptance to others? Jesus doesn't think so:

1 John 4:20, 21 - "If anyone says,'I love God', and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For the one who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And we have this commandment from him, that whoever loves God must also love his brother."

[West Heisen]

OOC: Sex and Gender are and have always been synonymous, and I have not yet seen a compelling argument as to why they are suddenly different now. Also, aren't 'gender roles' against the very nature of progressivism? Men and women can do whatever they want; their gender is irrelevant, yes? Men and women do different things naturally, it's part of the biological differences, but we shouldn't act as though liking 'girly' things makes you a girl, for example. Also, people who claim they are non binary do exist, but non binary people don't exist. One could say there is a spectrum from male personality/behaviour to female, but not perfectly fitting into the stereotypical man/woman category doesn't mean you are something else entirely. People often bring up intersex, but that is 1. simply a genetic abnormality, just as someone might be born with 6 fingers, and 2. the said person almost always has very defining characteristics of one gender, they are not directly in between.

Furthermore, if I told you I was a dragon, you obviously wouldn't believe it. If I told you I was a woman, you probably would believe it. It doesn't really matter. Personally, I choose to judge people based on the content of their character, not whatever they 'identify' as. So there's really no need to tell people what you 'identify' as, since it has no tangible effect on anything.

Precisely, you don't know enough to participate meaningfully in this debate. I don't know who you are, but your words alone show that your opinions are based on misinformation, rather than any basis in facts.
I would suggest that you inform yourself to avoid making a fool of yourself.

Perhaps you could enlighten me on how I am 'misinformed', instead of calling me a fool. Also, I thought it was a fact that there are only 2 genders, yet here we are talking about 'non binary'.

[Paleoconservative Citizens]

That is false. As Jesus said,
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Matthew 5:17 ESV

Paul is saying that we are not under the law as means of salvation.

Jesus fulfilled the law by fulfilling the prophecies that announced his arrival. He abolished the law by imposing his new law: Galatians 6:2 - "Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and in this way you will fulfill the law of the Christ."

What was this new law?: John 13:34, 35 - I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.”

Are you proving to be a disciple of his by not showing love and acceptance to others? Jesus doesn't think so:

1 John 4:20, 21 - "If anyone says,'I love God', and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For the one who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And we have this commandment from him, that whoever loves God must also love his brother."

They are not my brothers. And also, concerning the law:
Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:19 ESV

[San Felix]

They are not my brothers. And also, concerning the law:
Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:19 ESV

Unfortunately for you, they are. Because even though, you don't accept their lifestyle, you do have to respect them.

1 Peter 2:17 - "Honor men of all sorts, have love for the whole association of brothers, be in fear of God, honor the king."

Hebrews 12:14 - "Pursue peace with all people and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord."

[Paleoconservative Citizens]

They are not my brothers. And also, concerning the law:
Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:19 ESV

Unfortunately for you, they are. Because even though, you don't accept their lifestyle, you do have to respect them.

1 Peter 2:17 - "Honor men of all sorts, have love for the whole association of brothers, be in fear of God, honor the king."

Hebrews 12:14 - "Pursue peace with all people and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord."

They themselves do not respect me nor the Lord, but I do respect them. I don't agree with their lifestyles as it is not righteous before God.

[Araraukar]

I was saying that 'non binary' is not a legitimate thing.

OOC: You'll need to take that up with the RL state of Finland, because I have a gender diagnosis that disagrees with you.

---

OOC: If the Bible quotes are not of actual transgender individuals (even the one originally quoted was of cross-dressing, not actually transgender), they should probably go on the General Forum, not here.