NationStates

Posted: **Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:01 pm**

Hello guys! Noobie here.

I'm an avid card collector, and from my experiences believe that Koem Kab is worthy of a condemnation. I also believe that cards can legally be brought into the SC. Not only do I believe Koem Kab is a worthy candidate, I also want to create something fun and unique.

The card subculture is not as developed as something like R / D, so words like "trigger" and "jump-point" are much less common, thus making this proposal very wordy and difficult to understand for less knowledgeable players. Attempting to make up words in a proposal would be esoteric at best.

After showing this to a friend (who's not so much of a card collector) he suggested I post this here for your help. I know it needs a lot of work, but I think I'll take your input to redirect myself on the right track. Thank you!

The Security Council,

ACKNOWLEDGING the existence of government-owned art collections within nations and the buying and selling of individual artworks,

DISTURBED that Koem Kab’s museums have collections so large and high-valued that masterpieces are not recognized for their beauty, instead glanced at due to the sheer amount of them. This disregard for art has been caused by the following:
1. Koem Kab’s museums’ abundance of art from the world’s greatest nations, who have contributed internationally and been ranked highest in international censuses for a long time. Koem Kab’s museums have an obsession with collecting art from these nations, a trait shared by many, but fulfilled by few.
2. Koem Kab’s active attempts at monopolizing art from NERVUN, of which Koem Kab has a staggeringly large number of pieces, which easily places Koem Kab with the largest NERVUNian collection, and more than could be adequately displayed.
3. Koem Kab’s decision to hoard the artificially high-valued art from Queen Yuno, of which Koem Kab easily has the most in the world.
4. Koem Kab’s complete unwillingness to sell art unless the buyer is willing to meet unreasonably high prices,

AWARE of the effects of hoarding, which not only prevents widespread learning about many prominent nations, but also, as stated above, discredits the art,

NOTING the importance of the distribution of art over a large number of nations, as it means that even if a government ceases to exist and its museums are abandoned, the knowledge and beauty they contained will continue to exist in the world.

DISGUSTED at the methods Koem Kab has used to develop such an abnormally large and high-valued collection, including:
1. Intentionally avoiding the expenses necessary to expand a nation’s museums, which include construction, security, transportation, and time spent during construction with the museums unable to profit. Instead of renovating museums, Koem Kab usually chooses to disrespectfully keep art in the warehouses of its largest colony, Greatest Chernobyl. These masterpieces sit here until they can be sold to a grateful owner.
2. Blatantly increasing the value of useless art from nations such as International Organization, Ortsync, Griet, Divine Will VII, Vacuole, and many more by selling the art to a nation controlled by Koem Kab for a high price, which raises the value and thus the value of the collection. This causes Koem Kab’s art collections to appear to be worth thousands more than than they actually should be, thus misrepresenting the museum.
3. Koem Kab’s abuse of its fortune in order to buy cheap art. This can most-likely only be achieved if the nation has a large amount of wealth to prevent dropping. Stopping this “dropping” tactic from occurring prevents the naïve seller from getting a fair amount for the art, and discourages competition, as it often ends the bidding war,
4. Colonizing thousands of nations for the sole purpose of art production,

AWARE of the methods Koem Kab uses that are widely considered petty for nations with large collections, which includes transfer stealing and "pennybidding". “Pennybidding” is when a representative of a nation bids a negligibly small amount above the previous bid, intentionally causing frustration and extending bidding wars,

FURTHER AWARE that Koem Kab has contributed to the art value inflation. This has been done because the demand for popular art has not been met by the supply, so nations with lots of art from a single nation can demand much higher than its actual worth. This cost increase has made it more difficult for poor nations to own popular art, and ensured that most popular art will go to Koem Kab and other rich collectors.

CONCLUDING that Koem Kab has prevented growth of small museums, inflated art prices, stolen transferred bank, pennybidded, artificially raised art value, nearly monopolized ownership of some art, and hoarded,

Hereby condemns Koem Kab

The Security Council,

DEFINING "cards" as a descriptor of a nation’s attributes, including, but not limited to: a nation’s motto, classification, name, population, region, flag, top world census rankings, world assembly authorships, and recognition by this council,

AWARE of the difficulties and rarity of most popular cards, with most having less than 100 owners,

SHOCKED by Koem Kab’s hoarding of popular cards, of which most notably:
1. Koem Kab’s unwillingness to sell popular cards of which it has the most in the world. These cards include Frisbeeteria, Reploid Productions, Euroslavia, Sanctaria, Katganistan, Knootoss, NewTexas, Zwangzug, Mousebumples, Transnapastain, Lamoni, Aleisyr, Ardchoille, Kindjal, Pogaria, Kyrusia, Aurelia, Glen-Rhodes, Christian Democrats, Menta Lee-Il, Old Tyrannia, Farnhamia, Sunset, Topid, McMasterdonia, Separatist Peoples, The Bruce, Cogitation, Nation of Quebec, Pythagosaurus, The Stalker, The Grim Reaper, Caelapes, Imperium Anglorum, Gnejs, Caracasus, Frieden-und Freudenland, and Candlewhisper Archive, among many others.
2. Koem Kab’s active attempts at monopolizing the card of NERVUN, of which the nation has 43.
3. Koem Kab’s hoarding of the artificially high-valued card of Queen Yuno. Koem Kab has 10 of these.
4. Koem Kab’s complete unwillingness to sell cards unless the buyer is willing to meet unreasonably high demands, and the lack of other sellers and owners due to Koem Kab’s hoarding,

DISGUSTED at the methods used in developing such an abnormally large and high-valued collection, of which includes:
1. Intentionally avoiding the fees required to increase collection capacity by creating a new nation, Greatest Chernobyl, which can receive gifts. Then Koem Kab buys the gifts from Greatest chernobyl, thus fooling the system.
2. Blatantly increasing the value of cards such as International Organization, Ortsync, Griet, Divine Will VII, Vacuole, The Home of Hope, Aummunati0n, Neutral Yugoslavia, Death Defiance 17, The CLU Empire, Moorwhyne, Sleepwalker, Jidal, Balmains, Westlandium, The Automobile Industry, and many more. This involves selling the card to a puppet nation, which raises the value and thus the value of the collection. While done in smaller chunks it’s a transfer, with amounts of bank in the hundreds it causes Koem Kab’s collection to appear to be worth thousands more than than it actually should be, thus deceiving the viewer and increasing it’s ranking.
3. Abusing Koem Kab’s massive amount of bank in order to buy low-selling cards. This can be done by buying above the market value and placing another bid for above market value in order to prevent "dropping", a tactic which few nations can afford. This technique often ends the bidding war, which prevents the naive seller from getting a decent amount of bank for the card.

AWARE of the methods Koem Kab uses that are widely considered petty for nation’s with large collections, which includes transfer stealing and penny bidding,

FURTHER AWARE that Koem Kab has contributed to the cost increase. This can be done because the demand for popular cards has not been met by the supply, so nations with many cards can sell much higher than it’s worth. This cost increase has increased difficulty of receiving a popular card for the less well-off, and ensured that most popular cards will go to Koem Kab and other rich collectors, to the detriment of poorer nations.

HOPING that the security council will recognize this hoarding and the methods used in bring this collection to be the largest in the world,

Hereby condemns Koem Kab

The Security Council,

NOTING that many nations collect intelligence dossiers of other nations, which include: the nation’s motto, classification, name, population, region, flag, top world census rankings, world assembly authorships, and recognition by this council,

FURTHER NOTING that every intelligence dossier is identical, and it is pointless to collect more than one of a single nation. Rather, it is to the detriment of other nation’s intelligence programs to have more than one of this limited resource,

AWARE of the difficulties spies must overcome in order to collect intelligence on many nations, with the intelligence dossiers of most prominent nations being owned by less than 100 nations,

DEFINING "bank" as the standard currency by which nations trade dossiers.

SHOCKED by Koem Kab’s unnecessary hoarding of popular dossiers, of which most notably:
1. Koem Kab’s unwillingness to sell popular dossiers of which it has the greatest number in the world. These dossiers include intelligence on Frisbeeteria, Reploid Productions, Euroslavia, Sanctaria, Katganistan, Knootoss, NewTexas, Zwangzug, Mousebumples, Transnapastain, Lamoni, Aleisyr, Ardchoille, Kindjal, Pogaria, Kyrusia, Aurelia, Glen-Rhodes, Christian Democrats, Menta Lee-Il, Old Tyrannia, Farnhamia, Sunset, Topid, McMasterdonia, Separatist Peoples, The Bruce, Cogitation, Nation of Quebec, Pythagosaurus, The Stalker, The Grim Reaper, Caelapes, Imperium Anglorum, Gnejs, Caracasus, Frieden-und Freudenland, and Candlewhisper Archive, among many others. This unwillingness to trade means that many nations will be unable to receive a dossier on many important nations.
2. Koem Kab’s active attempts at being the sole owner of the dossier of NERVUN, of which Koem Kab has 43 dossiers.
3. Koem Kab’s hoarding of the artificially high-valued dossier of Queen Yuno. Koem Kab has 10 of these dossiers.
4. Koem Kab’s complete unwillingness to sell dossiers unless the buyer is willing to meet unreasonably high prices, and the lack of other sellers and owners due to Koem Kab’s hoarding,

AWARE of the affects of hoarding, which prevents nations from gaining intelligence on many prominent nations,

DISGUSTED at the methods used in developing such an abnormally large and high-valued collection of dossiers, of which includes:
1. Intentionally avoiding the fees required to increase dossier collection capacity, which is imposed upon all nations. Unwillingness or inability to pay for a larger capacity results in the inability to be given dossiers from other nations, but it does not prevent nations from buying and selling dossiers. Koem Kab circumvents these limits by seizing control of another nation, Greatest Chernobyl, and receiving gifts on that nation. Then, Koem Kab buys the gifts given to Greatest chernobyl, thus fooling the system.
2. Blatantly increasing the value of useless dossiers of nations such as International Organization, Ortsync, Griet, Divine Will VII, Vacuole, The Home of Hope, Aummunati0n, Neutral Yugoslavia, Death Defiance 17, The CLU Empire, Moorwhyne, Sleepwalker, Jidal, Balmains, Westlandium, The Automobile Industry, and many more. This involves selling the dossier to a nation controlled by Koem Kab for a high price, which raises the value and thus the value of the collection. While done in smaller chunks it’s a transfer of bank between two nations, but with amounts of bank in the hundreds, it causes Koem Kabs collection of dossiers to appear to be worth thousands more than than it actually should be, thus deceiving the viewer and increasing Koem Kabs ranking internationally.
3. Abusing Koem Kab’s massive amount of bank in order to buy low-selling dossiers. This can be done by placing a bid for the dossier at a price slightly above the market value, then placing another bid for an equal amount, in order to prevent "dropping". This is a tactic few nations can afford, and often ends the bidding war, which prevents the naive seller from getting a fair amount of bank for the dossier,

COGNIZANT of the affects of value-increasing, which significantly altar the world rankings for highest valued collections, and highest valued dossiers,

AWARE of the methods Koem Kab uses that are widely considered petty for nations with large collections, which includes bank transfer stealing and bidding 0.01 bank above the next highest bid,

FURTHER AWARE that Koem Kab has contributed to the cost increase. This has been done because the demand for popular dossiers has not been met by the supply, so nations with many identical dossiers can sell much higher than it’s worth. This cost increase has increased difficulty of owning a popular dossier for the less well-off, and ensured that most popular dossiers will go to Koem Kab and other rich collectors, to the detriment of poorer nations.

HOPING that the security council will recognize this hoarding and the methods used in bring this collection to be the largest in the world,

Hereby condemns Koem Kab

The Security Council,

ACKNOWLEDGING government-owned art collections which exist within nations and the active art trade which uses the currency "bank",

UNDERSTANDING that art reveals important information on the culture, ideology, and importance of the nation from which it was made,

AWARE that art is not bought and sold based on the artist, or the quality of the piece, but rather the culture that it expresses, so as to expand collections centered around specific nations.

DISTURBED that Koem Kab’s museums have collections so large and high-valued that masterpieces are not recognized for their beauty, instead glanced at due to the sheer amount of them. This disregard for art has been caused by the following:
1. Koem Kab’s museums abundance of art from the world’s legendary nations, a description determined by a nation’s longevity, census rankings, and contributions to the world, among other factors. Koem Kab’s museums have an obsession with collecting legendary nations, a trait shared by many, but fulfilled by few.
2. Koem Kab’s active attempts at monopolizing art from NERVUN. Koem Kab has a staggering 52 NERVUNian pieces in its collection.
3. Koem Kab’s decision to horde the artificiallly high-valued art from Queen Yuno. Koem Kab has 10 of these art pieces.
4. Koem Kab’s complete unwillingness to sell art unless the buyer is willing to meet unreasonably high prices,

AWARE of the effects of hoarding, which not only prevents nations from gaining intelligence on many prominent nations, but also, as stated above, devalues the art in the eyes of a tourist,

NOTING the importance of the distribution of art over a large number of nations, as it means that even if a government ceases to exist and its museums are abandoned, knowledge and beauty will continue to exist in the world. Therefore, Koem Kab’s control over so much art is risky,

DISGUSTED at the methods used in developing such an abnormally large and high-valued collection, of which includes:
1. Intentionally avoiding the maintenance fees required to increase art collection capacity, which is imposed upon all nations. Unwillingness or inability to pay for a larger capacity results in the inability to be gifted art from other nations, but it does not prevent nations from buying and selling art. Koem Kab circumvents these limits by seizing control of another nation, Greatest Chernobyl, and receiving gifts from Koem Kab’s colonies on said nation. Then, Koem Kab often sells the gifts in Greatest Chernobyl, and uses the bank to buy art in Koem Kab, thus fooling the system.
2. Blatantly increasing the value of useless art from nations such as International Organization, Ortsync, Griet, Divine Will VII, Vacuole, The Home of Hope, Aummunati0n, Neutral Yugoslavia, Death Defiance 17, The CLU Empire, Moorwhyne, Sleepwalker, Jidal, Balmains, Westlandium, The Automobile Industry, and many more. This involves selling the art to a nation controlled by Koem Kab for a high price, which raises the value and thus the value of the collection. While done in smaller chunks it can be argued as a transfer of bank between two nations, but with amounts of bank in the hundreds, it causes Koem Kabs art collections to appear to be worth thousands more than than they actually should be, thus deceiving a tourist and increasing Koem Kab’s international ranking.
3. Koem Kab’s abuse of its massive amount of bank in order to buy low-selling art. This can be done by placing a bid for the art at a price slightly above the market value (a value calculated by the average of all sale prices), then placing another bid for an equal amount as the previous bid, in order to prevent "dropping", which is when another owner of the art will sell for the price bid by Koem Kab, then buy for the originally low price, in order to profit. This dropping-prevention tactic is one that few nations can afford, and often ends the bidding war, which prevents the naïve seller from getting a fair amount of bank for the art,
4. Colonizing thousands of nations for the sole purpose of art production,

AWARE of the methods Koem Kab uses that are widely considered petty for nations with large collections, which includes bank transfer stealing and "pennybidding", which is bidding 0.01 bank above the next highest bid,

FURTHER AWARE that Koem Kab has contributed to the art value inflation. This has been done because the demand for popular art has not been met by the supply, so nations with lots of art from a single nation can sell much higher than it’s worth. This cost increase has made it more difficult to own popular art for poor nations, and ensured that most popular art will go to Koem Kab and other rich collectors, to the detriment of most nations.

CONCLUDING that Koem Kab has prevented growth of small museums, inflated art prices, stolen transferred bank, pennybidded, artificially raised card value, nearly monopolized ownership of some art, and hoarded,

Hereby condemns Koem Kab

The Security Council,

ACKNOWLEDGING the existence of government-owned art collections within nations and the exchange of individual pieces and currency ("bank") that makes up the international art trade,

UNDERSTANDING that art reveals important information on the culture, ideology, and importance of the nation from which it originated,

AWARE that art is not bought and sold based on the artist, or the quality of the piece, but rather the culture that it expresses, so as to expand collections centered around specific nations.

DISTURBED that Koem Kab’s museums have collections so large and high-valued that masterpieces are not recognized for their beauty, instead glanced at due to the sheer amount of them. This disregard for art has been caused by the following:
1. Koem Kab’s museums’ abundance of art from the world’s legendary nations, a description determined by a nation’s longevity, census rankings, and contributions to the world, among other factors. Koem Kab’s museums have an obsession with collecting legendary nations, a trait shared by many, but fulfilled by few.
2. Koem Kab’s active attempts at monopolizing art from NERVUN, of which Koem Kab has a staggering 52 pieces in its collection.
3. Koem Kab’s decision to hoard the artificially high-valued art from Queen Yuno, of which Koem Kab has 10.
4. Koem Kab’s complete unwillingness to sell art unless the buyer is willing to meet unreasonably high prices,

AWARE of the effects of hoarding, which not only prevents nations from gaining intelligence on many prominent nations, but also, as stated above, devalues the art in the eyes of a tourist,

NOTING the importance of the distribution of art over a large number of nations, as it means that even if a government ceases to exist and its museums are abandoned, the knowledge and beauty they contained will continue to exist in the world.

DISGUSTED at the methods Koem Kab has used to develop such an abnormally large and high-valued collection, including:
1. Intentionally avoiding the maintenance fees required to increase art collection capacity, which, if not paid, bars nations from receiving gifts from its colonies. Koem Kab circumvents these limits by seizing control of another nation, Greatest Chernobyl, and receiving gifts from Koem Kab’s colonies on said nation. Koem Kab often sells the gifts in Greatest Chernobyl, thus fooling the system.
2. Blatantly increasing the value of useless art from nations such as International Organization, Ortsync, Griet, Divine Will VII, Vacuole, and many more by selling the art to a nation controlled by Koem Kab for a high price, raising the value and thus the value of the collection. This causes Koem Kab’s art collections to appear to be worth thousands more than than they actually should be, thus deceiving a tourist and increasing Koem Kab’s international ranking.
3. Koem Kab’s abuse of its massive amount of bank in order to buy low-selling art by placing two bids for the art at a price slightly above the market value (a value calculated by the average of all sale prices), a tactic used in order to prevent “dropping”, in which another owner of the art sells for the price bid by Koem Kab, then buys for the originally low price, in order to profit. This dropping-prevention tactic is one that few nations can afford, and often ends the bidding war, which prevents the naïve seller from getting a fair amount of bank for the art,
4. Colonizing thousands of nations for the sole purpose of art production,

AWARE of the methods Koem Kab uses that are widely considered petty for nations with large collections, which includes bank transfer stealing and "pennybidding", which is bidding 0.01 bank above the next highest bid,

FURTHER AWARE that Koem Kab has contributed to the art value inflation. This has been done because the demand for popular art has not been met by the supply, so nations with lots of art from a single nation can demand much higher than its actual worth. This cost increase has made it more difficult for poor nations to own popular art, and ensured that most popular art will go to Koem Kab and other rich collectors.

CONCLUDING that Koem Kab has prevented growth of small museums, inflated art prices, stolen transferred bank, pennybidded, artificially raised card value, nearly monopolized ownership of some art, and hoarded,

Hereby condemns Koem Kab

Posted: **Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:22 pm**

Someone more knowledgeable about the NationStates card trade can comment on the actual content of this draft, but I will say I noticed two minor grammatical errors:

Posted: **Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:48 pm**

Ttopa wrote:Someone more knowledgeable about the NationStates card trade can comment on the actual content of this draft, but I will say I noticed two minor grammatical errors:
Bormiar wrote:While done in smaller chunks it’s a transfer, with amounts of bank in the hundreds it causes Koem Kab’s collection to appear to be worth thousands more than than it actually should be, thus deceiving the viewer and increasing it’s ranking.
3.

AWARE of the methods Koem Kab uses that are widely considered petty for nation’s with large collections, which includes transfer stealing and penny bidding,

The words I bolded should be changed to "its" and "nations" respectively.

Good eye! Thank you!

Edit: What I'm more hoping on is someone with more knowledge of the SC rules so they can tell me if it's not too meta.

Posted: **Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:55 pm**

I'm not a card player either, but I would say that since cards are a game mechanic, you don't have to define what a card is. Also, it's probably better to refer to them as "trading cards", since I believe that's their full name.

Posted: **Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:01 pm**

East Meranopirus wrote:I'm not a card player either, but I would say that since cards are a game mechanic, you don't have to define what a card is. Also, it's probably better to refer to them as "trading cards", since I believe that's their full name.

I see where you're coming from. This is best suited OOC anyways, so that makes sense to me.

Posted: **Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:04 pm**

Note that if the term “card” is illegal from a R4 perspective, redefining it will not make it legal. That’s in the rules.

Posted: **Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:10 pm**

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Note that if the term “card” is illegal from a R4 perspective, redefining it will not make it legal. That’s in the rules.

I've read some of your posts and you seem to know the rules very well so I find this comment very reassuring. Thank you.

Posted: **Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:16 pm**

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Note that if the term “card” is illegal from a R4 perspective, redefining it will not make it legal. That’s in the rules.

I cannot find anything that says the term "card" is illegal under rule 4. In fact, I find this under the rulings compendium, which leads me to believe "cards" are a legal term:
"Any term included within NationStates the game - eg. passwords, World Factbook Entries, founders, eject, 'black helicopters transporting nations between regions' - legal"
"Trading card" is certainly a term included within the game, so therefore it should be legal, right?

Posted: **Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:46 pm**

East Meranopirus wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Note that if the term “card” is illegal from a R4 perspective, redefining it will not make it legal. That’s in the rules.

I cannot find anything that says the term "card" is illegal under rule 4. In fact, I find this under the rulings compendium, which leads me to believe "cards" are a legal term:
"Any term included within NationStates the game - eg. passwords, World Factbook Entries, founders, eject, 'black helicopters transporting nations between regions' - legal"
"Trading card" is certainly a term included within the game, so therefore it should be legal, right?

Not necessarily - for example you cannot reference “Issues” directly as that’s a game mechanic, but you can talk about them and use them in a C&C. You could say something like “so and so has brought many issues of national importance to the attention....”. This has been a way of recognising issue writers without violating R4.

At the moment I think the proposal is illegal for referencing a game mechanic. However, I’m not an SC Mod and they may think differently.

Mind you if it is illegal it could still be salvaged. Instead of talking about trading cards talk about intelligence dossiers or something like that. Work around Koem Kab’s possession of multiple files on multiple nations and their refusal to trade them.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:55 am**

I think BBD's suggestion of calling them intelligence dossiers would work well.

On the third point of the clause noting his methods used, it is a bit unclear about what happens. It might be worth going into more depth in this area regarding the exact process. Even for me, a rather consistent card player, it is confusing.

It may be worthwhile to include the adversarial affects of card hoarding and of artificially increasing card prices. Especially given as this is the first resolution using actions with cards for a commendation/condemnation.

A very interesting idea however.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:40 am**

All the rule 4c I’m afraid and it’s going to take some serious gymnastics to avoid it.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:44 am**

You're going to have to edit this a lot, but I like it!

It's one of the most unique SC proposals I've ever seen. Nice job.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:18 am**

It hopefully will open the door for more card related things in the WA. I and many others can help with the cards portion of petty tactics the biggest hurdle is going to be making it legal. I think (I am not a big SC player) that info dossiers as said above was a good idea as well as possabily talking about koem holding the equivalent of baseball cards but for nation's. Seeing as it is part of the full game now (and not just an April fool's mini game) one could argue that nations are collecting cards as a similar way that raiders collect regions.

Insider trading may be a better way for koem's inflationary tactics with his puppets

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:37 am**

9003 wrote:It hopefully will open the door for more card related things in the WA. I and many others can help with the cards portion of petty tactics the biggest hurdle is going to be making it legal. I think (I am not a big SC player) that info dossiers as said above was a good idea as well as possabily talking about koem holding the equivalent of baseball cards but for nation's. Seeing as it is part of the full game now (and not just an April fool's mini game) one could argue that nations are collecting cards as a similar way that raiders collect regions.

Insider trading may be a better way for koem's inflationary tactics with his puppets

Somehow I doubt that. Any SC proposal based on trading cards is going to have to be extremely well written just to avoid falling foul of Rule 4(c). Not saying it’s impossible, but it will take a great deal of skill.

Also comparing collecting cards with raiders “collecting” regions is a false equivalence.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:01 am**

Personally I'm inclined to the use of the word 'artifacts' as opposed to 'intelligence dossiers'

Would the author mind if I made some relatively extensive edit suggestions with that?

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:06 am**

Marilyn Manson Freaks wrote:You're going to have to edit this a lot, but I like it!

It's one of the most unique SC proposals I've ever seen. Nice job.

Thank you!

Ransium wrote:All the rule 4c I’m afraid and it’s going to take some serious gymnastics to avoid it.

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Somehow I doubt that. Any SC proposal based on trading cards is going to have to be extremely well written just to avoid falling foul of Rule 4(c). Not saying it’s impossible, but it will take a great deal of skill.

Unfortunately.

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
East Meranopirus wrote:I cannot find anything that says the term "card" is illegal under rule 4. In fact, I find this under the rulings compendium, which leads me to believe "cards" are a legal term:
"Any term included within NationStates the game - eg. passwords, World Factbook Entries, founders, eject, 'black helicopters transporting nations between regions' - legal"
"Trading card" is certainly a term included within the game, so therefore it should be legal, right?

Not necessarily - for example you cannot reference “Issues” directly as that’s a game mechanic, but you can talk about them and use them in a C&C. You could say something like “so and so has brought many issues of national importance to the attention....”. This has been a way of recognising issue writers without violating R4.

At the moment I think the proposal is illegal for referencing a game mechanic. However, I’m not an SC Mod and they may think differently.

Mind you if it is illegal it could still be salvaged. Instead of talking about trading cards talk about intelligence dossiers or something like that. Work around Koem Kab’s possession of multiple files on multiple nations and their refusal to trade them.

I love that idea! It works for cards. Does that validate terms like bank, pennybidding, collection, and mentions of buying and selling, or would I have to define those too?

Praeceps wrote:I think BBD's suggestion of calling them intelligence dossiers would work well.

On the third point of the clause noting his methods used, it is a bit unclear about what happens. It might be worth going into more depth in this area regarding the exact process. Even for me, a rather consistent card player, it is confusing.

It may be worthwhile to include the adversarial affects of card hoarding and of artificially increasing card prices. Especially given as this is the first resolution using actions with cards for a commendation/condemnation.

A very interesting idea however.

Yes, the second problem after making it legal is making it understandable. I assuming points 1 and 3 are the most difficult for you? Some of the card strategies took me quite a while to understand, but I think I can simple it.

Also, I agree that it's a good idea to include the adversarial effects.

Lord Dominator wrote:Personally I'm inclined to the use of the word 'artifacts' as opposed to 'intelligence dossiers'

Would the author mind if I made some relatively extensive edit suggestions with that?

No please do.

Also, just a note, something I very much should have considered before posting here, I understand that, but I will not be able to majorly edit the draft within the next 10 days for irl reasons. On some days I will be able to discuss the draft and check feedback and make minor edits. Minor meaning "capable of doing via a phone" and not "ineffectual".

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:16 am**

I understand 1 easily; however, I do think it could be clarified for those who are not involved in cards as much. What I think should be included here is that while you cannot gift cards over the capacity, you can still buy cards over capacity. And that this method is just a convoluted process of gifting cards using the auction system. Of course, you have to make this all rule compliant which will be the really difficult part.

3 is where I really think could use clarification. I have bid against Koem Kab before so I'm sure I probably know his technique but I don't understand this clause.

You have also mentioned dropping in the resolution without clarifying what it means. I am pretty sure most people not active in the card community won't know what that means.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:56 pm**

This entire thing seems to violate R4.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:39 pm**

Kaboomlandia wrote:This entire thing seems to violate R4.

Are there any parts you can think of a way to turn them into legal op understands their fighting an uphill battle

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:07 pm**

9003 wrote:
Kaboomlandia wrote:This entire thing seems to violate R4.

Are there any parts you can think of a way to turn them into legal op understands their fighting an uphill battle

I’m about to be on a plane for 9 hours and want to address that 9003 is 100% correct about what I think and you should consider what he wrote as something I agree with.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:58 pm**

9003 wrote:
Kaboomlandia wrote:This entire thing seems to violate R4.

Are there any parts you can think of a way to turn them into legal op understands their fighting an uphill battle

The “artifacts” suggestion by LD is something I like, though OP will be incredibly hard-pressed to make this legal whilst still ensuring that people can understand what it means, especially since there is no RL analogue to the trading cards that can be used.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:43 pm**

Kaboomlandia wrote:
9003 wrote:
Are there any parts you can think of a way to turn them into legal op understands their fighting an uphill battle

The “artifacts” suggestion by LD is something I like, though OP will be incredibly hard-pressed to make this legal whilst still ensuring that people can understand what it means, especially since there is no RL analogue to the trading cards that can be used.

I mean, we could compare the hoarding of artifacts to the stealing of art by Nazi soldiers. That's really all I can think of, though.

Posted: **Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:07 pm**

Or perhaps brand it like a resource, and discuss the multitude of nations oppressed into mining said resource, á la blood diamonds or something. A thought.

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:58 am**

Severisen wrote:Or perhaps brand it like a resource, and discuss the multitude of nations oppressed into mining said resource, á la blood diamonds or something. A thought.

My biggest problem with that is that it makes my nation condemnable for forcing me irl to farm for cards, and a commendation would look much better with my flag

.

Posted: **Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:01 am**

So far I’m liking the intelligence dossier one as I’m not fully sure I understand the artifacts and Sev’s.

NationStates

[PASSED] Condemn Koem Kab

[PASSED] Condemn Koem Kab