NATION

PASSWORD

[DEFEATED] Preventing Unjust Warfare

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5095
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:19 pm

Christian Democrats wrote:We fail to see how this proposal would be enforceable.

"You're waging an unjust war. You're bad." Okay. Whatever.

Now, if this proposal imposed some sort of mandate on other WA member states -- e.g., to cease trade with violators and to freeze the financial assets of violators -- it would have teeth. It would be a proposal that actually proposes doing something.

(OOC: The Administrative Compliance Act takes care of sanctions for breaking any GA proposal.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:30 pm

Christian Democrats wrote:We fail to see how this proposal would be enforceable.

OOC: They keep telling me that the compliance committee exists to enforce resolutions... There's also the whole good faith requirement, too.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

User avatar
Union of Sovereign States and Republics
Envoy
 
Posts: 242
Founded: Nov 16, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Union of Sovereign States and Republics » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:11 pm

"The Soviet Union and the members of the Common Security Agreement, Armenia and Georgia, fully support this resolution."
Current IC Year: 2002
The Union of Sovereign States and Republics; USSR WE'RE NOT COMMUNISTS, DAMMIT!
In 1991, a plane carrying would-be conspirators of an armed coup crashed in the Crimean Peninsula. Without the coup, the Union of Sovereign States treaty was signed; and the USSR survived...
Current Ruling Party: Social Democratic Party of the Soviet Union (Alexander Lebedev)
News: East Timor becomes independent from Indonesia

"My chances of being PM are about as good as the chances of find Elvis on Mars, or my being reincarnated as an olive." - Boris Johnson

User avatar
Jebslund
Minister
 
Posts: 2516
Founded: Sep 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Jebslund » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:26 pm

Sofia Kerman rises. "There's a joke in there somewhere about what precisely constitutes "competent", but Jebslund supports this proposal, provided situations in which a state is refusing to take action against a non-state actors or actors engaged in the capture or trade of citizens of member states into slavery or other heinous crimes against the people of member states are considered just cause for war."
Jebslund is a nation of kerbals ruled by Emperor Jebediah Kerman. We reject tyranny, believing that rights should be protected, though we also believe said rights end where the rights of others begin.
Shockingly, we *do* use NS stats, with the exception of lifespan.
Singular sapient: Jebslunder
Plural Sapient: Jebslunden
Singular/Plural nonsapient: Kermanic
Note: When a verb can logically only be done by the sapient using/piloting/holding the object in question, then the appropriate demonym for the number of sapients is used.

Capitalism, Socialism, and Communism are ECONOMIC SYSTEMS. Stop conflating them with political systems.

User avatar
Kyrgwalaey
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 12
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Kyrgwalaey » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:59 pm

"Kyrgwalaey is unwilling to support this draft, consistently stating that '2c is subjective and requires a universal measurement to follow'."

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2447
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:05 pm

Is this close to ready for submission?
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

Deputy Outreach Minister, The Rejected Realms
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

President, Right to Life
Author/Co-author: 7 GA, 2 SC resolutions

Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
Stat Crux dum volvitur orbis
The Cross stands steady, though the Earth is turning


User avatar
Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:25 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:Is this close to ready for submission?

OOC: Are mercenaries "non-state actors"?
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

User avatar
Imperium Anglorum
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8887
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:58 pm

Are they actors which are not the state?

Author: 1 SC and 28 GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communiqué and InfoEurope
Delegate for Europe
Out-of-character unless marked otherwise
Ideological Bulwark 285, WALL delegate
Dastardly villain providing free services to the community sans remuneration

User avatar
Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:13 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:Are they actors which are not the state?

OOC: Even when hired by the state?
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

User avatar
Jebslund
Minister
 
Posts: 2516
Founded: Sep 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Jebslund » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:09 am

Araraukar wrote:
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Are they actors which are not the state?

OOC: Even when hired by the state?

OOC: Hey, that general who hired them was acting without the approval of the state. The fact that we're at war and can't afford to change horses midstream is the only reason he conveniently still has a job, and, no, you may not see his pay stubs.
Jebslund is a nation of kerbals ruled by Emperor Jebediah Kerman. We reject tyranny, believing that rights should be protected, though we also believe said rights end where the rights of others begin.
Shockingly, we *do* use NS stats, with the exception of lifespan.
Singular sapient: Jebslunder
Plural Sapient: Jebslunden
Singular/Plural nonsapient: Kermanic
Note: When a verb can logically only be done by the sapient using/piloting/holding the object in question, then the appropriate demonym for the number of sapients is used.

Capitalism, Socialism, and Communism are ECONOMIC SYSTEMS. Stop conflating them with political systems.

User avatar
Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:49 am

Jebslund wrote:OOC: Hey, that general who hired them was acting without the approval of the state. The fact that we're at war and can't afford to change horses midstream is the only reason he conveniently still has a job, and, no, you may not see his pay stubs.

OOC: Whoever said anything about generals? I'm not talking about a nation's armed forces. I'm talking about the "non-state actors" clause and whether mercenaries hired by the state (not a general) count as such. Also, what the hell are you talking about?
Last edited by Araraukar on Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

User avatar
Jebslund
Minister
 
Posts: 2516
Founded: Sep 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Jebslund » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:35 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Jebslund wrote:OOC: Hey, that general who hired them was acting without the approval of the state. The fact that we're at war and can't afford to change horses midstream is the only reason he conveniently still has a job, and, no, you may not see his pay stubs.

OOC: Whoever said anything about generals? I'm not talking about a nation's armed forces. I'm talking about the "non-state actors" clause and whether mercenaries hired by the state (not a general) count as such. Also, what the hell are you talking about?

OOC: Plausible deniability. The general in my example is arguably a state actor hiring the mercs on behalf of the state, but said hiring is being denied as the actions of a rogue individual acting without the permission or knowledge of the state. It was a serious joke.
Jebslund is a nation of kerbals ruled by Emperor Jebediah Kerman. We reject tyranny, believing that rights should be protected, though we also believe said rights end where the rights of others begin.
Shockingly, we *do* use NS stats, with the exception of lifespan.
Singular sapient: Jebslunder
Plural Sapient: Jebslunden
Singular/Plural nonsapient: Kermanic
Note: When a verb can logically only be done by the sapient using/piloting/holding the object in question, then the appropriate demonym for the number of sapients is used.

Capitalism, Socialism, and Communism are ECONOMIC SYSTEMS. Stop conflating them with political systems.

User avatar
Imperium Anglorum
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8887
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:03 pm

So perhaps sometimes mercenaries are and are not, depending on the situation.

Author: 1 SC and 28 GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communiqué and InfoEurope
Delegate for Europe
Out-of-character unless marked otherwise
Ideological Bulwark 285, WALL delegate
Dastardly villain providing free services to the community sans remuneration

User avatar
Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:24 am

Jebslund wrote:OOC: Plausible deniability. The general in my example is arguably a state actor hiring the mercs on behalf of the state, but said hiring is being denied as the actions of a rogue individual acting without the permission or knowledge of the state.

OOC: This is pretty much exactly why I want UM to explain - not in the proposal, but just as a forum post - exactly what he means. Because in your example, they probably wouldn't count. I'm asking about the situation when they've been literally hired by the state, not some go-between guy.

It was a serious joke.

It was marked OOC and didn't have a smilie, so that was a bit hard to judge. :P
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2447
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:22 am

Yes, yes. UM will explain. He's busy yelling at fascists rn.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

Deputy Outreach Minister, The Rejected Realms
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

President, Right to Life
Author/Co-author: 7 GA, 2 SC resolutions

Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
Stat Crux dum volvitur orbis
The Cross stands steady, though the Earth is turning


User avatar
Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:39 am

United Massachusetts wrote:Yes, yes. UM will explain. He's busy yelling at fascists rn.

OOC: Yell at them for me too. :lol:
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

User avatar
Jebslund
Minister
 
Posts: 2516
Founded: Sep 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Jebslund » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:41 am

Araraukar wrote:
Jebslund wrote:OOC: Plausible deniability. The general in my example is arguably a state actor hiring the mercs on behalf of the state, but said hiring is being denied as the actions of a rogue individual acting without the permission or knowledge of the state.

OOC: This is pretty much exactly why I want UM to explain - not in the proposal, but just as a forum post - exactly what he means. Because in your example, they probably wouldn't count. I'm asking about the situation when they've been literally hired by the state, not some go-between guy.

It was a serious joke.

It was marked OOC and didn't have a smilie, so that was a bit hard to judge. :P

OOC: Gentle reminder that the military is part of the state and the part most likely to be doing said literal hiring. "Some go-between guy" would be if the state had some random civilian do the hiring.
Jebslund is a nation of kerbals ruled by Emperor Jebediah Kerman. We reject tyranny, believing that rights should be protected, though we also believe said rights end where the rights of others begin.
Shockingly, we *do* use NS stats, with the exception of lifespan.
Singular sapient: Jebslunder
Plural Sapient: Jebslunden
Singular/Plural nonsapient: Kermanic
Note: When a verb can logically only be done by the sapient using/piloting/holding the object in question, then the appropriate demonym for the number of sapients is used.

Capitalism, Socialism, and Communism are ECONOMIC SYSTEMS. Stop conflating them with political systems.

User avatar
The united American-Isreali empire
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 115
Founded: Apr 09, 2019
Capitalist Paradise

Postby The united American-Isreali empire » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:45 am

Utter rubbish. The rules of war are no good and so is this. I do not support this idea.
Last edited by The united American-Isreali empire on Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:58 am

Jebslund wrote:OOC: Gentle reminder that the military is part of the state and the part most likely to be doing said literal hiring. "Some go-between guy" would be if the state had some random civilian do the hiring.

OOC: As an example, Araraukar has no military. None. It has some parts of law enforcement that may have "military-grade" gear, but they are law enforcement, not military, and wouldn't be involved in anything beyond the nation's borders.

And having a military still wouldn't have anything to do with my question if the military itself or any of its personnel were not involved in the hiring of the mercenaries.

...I may have also read too much Schlock recently, but that doesn't mean I wasn't seriously asking this question...
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2447
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:08 am

So, I'm fine with excluding mercenary forces from the definition of "non-state actor."

I just have to figure out how to work that out in the definition!
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

Deputy Outreach Minister, The Rejected Realms
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

President, Right to Life
Author/Co-author: 7 GA, 2 SC resolutions

Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
Stat Crux dum volvitur orbis
The Cross stands steady, though the Earth is turning


User avatar
Vrama
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 43
Founded: Dec 29, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Vrama » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:19 am

Namaste,

The Most Sacred Kingdom, being committed to supporting world peace, order, and stability, hereby supports this Draft.
--The Foreign Ministry of the Most Sacred Kingdom of Vrama

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2447
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:30 am

Vrama wrote:Namaste,

The Most Sacred Kingdom, being committed to supporting world peace, order, and stability, hereby supports this Draft.

We knew you would. Imperium Anglorum has a long history of supporting world peace, and we're glad to see its crown dominions are in agreement.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

Deputy Outreach Minister, The Rejected Realms
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

President, Right to Life
Author/Co-author: 7 GA, 2 SC resolutions

Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
Stat Crux dum volvitur orbis
The Cross stands steady, though the Earth is turning


User avatar
Jebslund
Minister
 
Posts: 2516
Founded: Sep 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Jebslund » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:32 am

Araraukar wrote:
Jebslund wrote:OOC: Gentle reminder that the military is part of the state and the part most likely to be doing said literal hiring. "Some go-between guy" would be if the state had some random civilian do the hiring.

OOC: As an example, Araraukar has no military. None. It has some parts of law enforcement that may have "military-grade" gear, but they are law enforcement, not military, and wouldn't be involved in anything beyond the nation's borders.

And having a military still wouldn't have anything to do with my question if the military itself or any of its personnel were not involved in the hiring of the mercenaries.

...I may have also read too much Schlock recently, but that doesn't mean I wasn't seriously asking this question...

OOC: And the police are *also* part of the state. That said, I was responding to your assertion that my scenario was not one of the state literally hiring the mercs.
Jebslund is a nation of kerbals ruled by Emperor Jebediah Kerman. We reject tyranny, believing that rights should be protected, though we also believe said rights end where the rights of others begin.
Shockingly, we *do* use NS stats, with the exception of lifespan.
Singular sapient: Jebslunder
Plural Sapient: Jebslunden
Singular/Plural nonsapient: Kermanic
Note: When a verb can logically only be done by the sapient using/piloting/holding the object in question, then the appropriate demonym for the number of sapients is used.

Capitalism, Socialism, and Communism are ECONOMIC SYSTEMS. Stop conflating them with political systems.

User avatar
Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5095
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:33 am

“Clause 3 beginning with a minuscule and having the second word capitalised looks horrible; I suggest appending the ‘and’ elsewhere.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2447
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:33 am

Kenmoria wrote:“Clause 3 beginning with a minuscule and having the second word capitalised looks horrible; I suggest appending the ‘and’ elsewhere.”

It does not look horrible. I think it looks quite fine, thank you very much! :p

(Will fix)
Last edited by United Massachusetts on Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

Deputy Outreach Minister, The Rejected Realms
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

President, Right to Life
Author/Co-author: 7 GA, 2 SC resolutions

Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
Stat Crux dum volvitur orbis
The Cross stands steady, though the Earth is turning


PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to WA Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot]

Advertisement

Remove ads