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[DEFEATED]Repeal:Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

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Jocospor
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Founded: Nov 24, 2015
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Postby Jocospor » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:08 am

RiderSyl wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:1. I don't have a victim complex. Neither does Jocospor.

Well, you're both very good at acting like it. Complaining about the big bad "WA elites" holding you down, complaining about the big bad biased mods... I guess because you don't tag it OOC, it's part of your roleplay, right?


OOC: I really don't think you of all people should be branding us as victims. I refer you to the third page of this thread.

Shrew doesn't use my IC/OOC system. He also doesn't have a disclaimer in his signature that says "All posts IC unless marked otherwise." You will need to clarify with him directly if you're concerned about what's RP and what's not.
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RiderSyl
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:14 am

Jocospor wrote:OOC: I really don't think you of all people should be branding us as victims. I refer you to the third page of this thread.


Holy fuck. Where I talk about being a victim of cancer? Being a victim of cancer isn't even remotely comparable to being the victim of a supposed WA hierarchy or mod bias.

And I more than earned this damn cancer card and the right to play it, and I'll definitely play it when someone is saying "lol how can you afford internet" and I actually can't.
Last edited by RiderSyl on Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Thuzbekistan
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Founded: Dec 29, 2017
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:22 am

RiderSyl wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
This is honestly the best joke in the entire thread.

It's not a joke.

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:If you're going to bring this up again, you can at least give us the full credit. We've attempted to pass a self-commendation three times.

I'm answering United States of Americanas' question. The other self-commendations don't have anything to do with why y'all were Liberated. Try to use logic when replying to people.

Thuzbekistan wrote:This practice is only a couple years old. Its the dumbest thing that could be done. "I dont like how they act in their own region. Better threaten to destroy their community!

Ugh. The SC can just dissolve.


Why are you so disgusted with the attempted punishment of fascist behavior?

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:1. I don't have a victim complex. Neither does Jocospor.

Well, you're both very good at acting like it. Complaining about the big bad "WA elites" holding you down, complaining about the big bad biased mods... I guess because you don't tag it OOC, it's part of your roleplay, right?

Because you dont just target fascists, but anyone who dares associate with them. And also because I believe in free speech as a principle- including hate speech. These liberations violate both the reason the liberation was created and the principle of free speech. Them being fascist is no excuse.
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RiderSyl
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:41 am

Thuzbekistan wrote:Because you dont just target fascists, but anyone who dares associate with them.

That's not a problem, though. You phrased that like it's a problem.

Thuzbekistan wrote:And also because I believe in free speech as a principle- including hate speech. These liberations violate both the reason the liberation was created and the principle of free speech. Them being fascist is no excuse.


I'm sorry that the Security Council has violated your beliefs. I'm sure all the SC's writers are.
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The Servitors
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Founded: Mar 28, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby The Servitors » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:52 am

SO I've been hearing a lot from critics of The Confederation of Corrupt Dictators, how their the root of all evil etc. etc.

now i'm new to this game so forgive any ignorance on my part but isn't it supposed to be a rule that the policy of individual nations shouldn't effect the World Assembly? i'm curious as to what peoples reasons/arguments are rather than just "They are evil, get them"...

Now even I will admit the resolution is worded rather... cheekily and honestly is just asking for negative votes but i'd still like to hear about this

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Thuzbekistan
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Postby Thuzbekistan » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:53 am

RiderSyl wrote:
Thuzbekistan wrote:Because you dont just target fascists, but anyone who dares associate with them.

That's not a problem, though. You phrased that like it's a problem.

Thuzbekistan wrote:And also because I believe in free speech as a principle- including hate speech. These liberations violate both the reason the liberation was created and the principle of free speech. Them being fascist is no excuse.


I'm sorry that the Security Council has violated your beliefs. I'm sure all the SC's writers are.

Your condescension aside, you asked why, I answered.
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Peigan
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Founded: Mar 24, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Peigan » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:54 am

I agree that Liberation resolutions should not be used to invade other regions. However I don't think the resolution itself gives much of a reason to repeal the liberation. However, I'm aware of the date and understand this is likely a goof.

I'm still voting against, but I would like CCD to make an actual effort in the future regarding this issue. OOC: I think you guys do have a chance if you provide evidence to counter the claims made by others (mostly communist tbh) that the CCD is a platform for IRL fascist and neo-nazis.
Last edited by Peigan on Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:57 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:56 am

RiderSyl wrote:
Thuzbekistan wrote:Because you dont just target fascists, but anyone who dares associate with them.

That's not a problem, though. You phrased that like it's a problem.

Thuzbekistan wrote:And also because I believe in free speech as a principle- including hate speech. These liberations violate both the reason the liberation was created and the principle of free speech. Them being fascist is no excuse.


I'm sorry that the Security Council has violated your beliefs. I'm sure all the SC's writers are.

Helping cause the division within the game is absolutely a problem.

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RiderSyl
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:59 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
RiderSyl wrote:That's not a problem, though. You phrased that like it's a problem.



I'm sorry that the Security Council has violated your beliefs. I'm sure all the SC's writers are.

Helping cause the division within the game is absolutely a problem.


Anti-fascism is one of the most unifying positions in the entire game.
Last edited by RiderSyl on Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:02 am

RiderSyl wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Helping cause the division within the game is absolutely a problem.


Anti-fascism is one of the most unifying positions in the entire game.

What is a fascist region though?

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The Marsupial Illuminati
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Founded: Jul 24, 2016
Tyranny by Majority

Postby The Marsupial Illuminati » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:04 am

Peigan wrote:I'm still voting against, but I would like CCD to make an actual effort in the future regarding this issue.

That's not going to happen. Messing with the Security Council is now the CoCD's shtick. In a few weeks, we will see this happen again for the umpteenth time. It's actually getting boring.
Last edited by The Marsupial Illuminati on Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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RiderSyl
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:06 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
RiderSyl wrote:
Anti-fascism is one of the most unifying positions in the entire game.

What is a fascist region though?

Confederation of Corrupt Dictators.
Last edited by RiderSyl on Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Peigan
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Founded: Mar 24, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Peigan » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:10 am

RiderSyl wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Helping cause the division within the game is absolutely a problem.


Anti-fascism is one of the most unifying positions in the entire game.
So, if you're worried about helping cause division, maybe don't argue against me here.

I think most can agree that fascism is a disease that needs to be crushed. However, only some of us hold the same viewpoint towards Communism and that there is where the division lies. Moderate regions are turned off by the fact that fighting fascist regions in this game usually means that you have to align with the Communist that have dominated NationStates politics for years. The recent raid of Fark by the Gentlemen's Coalition proves that moderate right-wing and conservative leaning regions also wish to make a stance against fascism on this website. The issue is that the far-left and communist regions seem to have a warped view of what fascism truly is, and many in the GC would also be branded a fascist for simply being right-wing. And that's the attitude that's contributing to division on this game.

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RiderSyl
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Postby RiderSyl » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:19 am

Peigan wrote:
RiderSyl wrote:
Anti-fascism is one of the most unifying positions in the entire game.
So, if you're worried about helping cause division, maybe don't argue against me here.

I think most can agree that fascism is a disease that needs to be crushed. However, only some of us hold the same viewpoint towards Communism and that there is where the division lies. Moderate regions are turned off by the fact that fighting fascist regions in this game usually means that you have to align with the Communist that have dominated NationStates politics for years. The recent raid of Fark by the Gentlemen's Coalition proves that moderate right-wing and conservative leaning regions also wish to make a stance against fascism on this website. The issue is that the far-left and communist regions seem to have a warped view of what fascism truly is, and many in the GC would also be branded a fascist for simply being right-wing. And that's the attitude that's contributing to division on this game.


I'm a moderate myself, and my leanings have changed over the years. I've never been forced to align with communist groups in order to be anti-fascist and participate in anti-fascist operations. Communism hasn't dominated NS politics, unless you have a really wide (and incorrect) definition of it. It's good that moderate right-wing regions want to make a stand against fascism. Do it, then. Don't use "Oh but the Communists!" as an excuse.
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Peigan
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Founded: Mar 24, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Peigan » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:33 am

RiderSyl wrote:
Peigan wrote:I think most can agree that fascism is a disease that needs to be crushed. However, only some of us hold the same viewpoint towards Communism and that there is where the division lies. Moderate regions are turned off by the fact that fighting fascist regions in this game usually means that you have to align with the Communist that have dominated NationStates politics for years. The recent raid of Fark by the Gentlemen's Coalition proves that moderate right-wing and conservative leaning regions also wish to make a stance against fascism on this website. The issue is that the far-left and communist regions seem to have a warped view of what fascism truly is, and many in the GC would also be branded a fascist for simply being right-wing. And that's the attitude that's contributing to division on this game.


I'm a moderate myself, and my leanings have changed over the years. I've never been forced to align with communist groups in order to be anti-fascist and participate in anti-fascist operations. Communism hasn't dominated NS politics, unless you have a really wide (and incorrect) definition of it. It's good that moderate right-wing regions want to make a stand against fascism. Do it, then. Don't use "Oh but the Communists!" as an excuse.

I have been apart of far-left regions in the past with my other nations. I know regions like The Communist Bloc make a claim that they are pan-leftist, but most of them are either marxist-leninist or anarcho-communist. Even the moderate left like social democrats get scolded by them as being part of the "problem". Why am I bringing up TCB? Because they have strong ties to just about every major anti-fascist operation. And as someone who's been apart of their community both recently and in the past, I find it to be one of most toxic environments on this game. And yet, we don't dare turn our attention to that problem. We don't dare suggest that there are far more communist regions, many of whom hold extreme IRL views, in this game then there are fascist. Sure you yourself might not publicly align with them, but I'll make a bet that you've turned a blind eye to it for the sake of "bashing the fash"

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RiderSyl
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Postby RiderSyl » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:47 am

I've actually been very critical of TCB, especially when it was run by Zenny and was nothing more than a cult of personality revolving around her.

Anyway, I'd guess that your aggressive criticism of anti-fascists and whataboutism when the negatives of fascism are brought up are the main reasons why you and your regionmates are branded the way you are.
Last edited by RiderSyl on Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ShrewLlamaLand
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Founded: Nov 30, 2015
Anarchy

Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:50 am

RiderSyl wrote:Confederation of Corrupt Dictactors.

Never heard of them.
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Evil Dictators Happyland
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Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:53 am

Liberating the CCD didn't actually do anything because they can keep the founder nation alive by passing it to another user if necessary. Therefore, repealing the liberation will also do nothing. Therefore, I don't really care about the resolution, but I'm pretty sure the SC has better things to do.
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RiderSyl
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:56 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
RiderSyl wrote:Confederation of Corrupt Dictators.

Never heard of them.

Check your diary.
Last edited by RiderSyl on Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ShrewLlamaLand
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Founded: Nov 30, 2015
Anarchy

Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:04 am

RiderSyl wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:Never heard of them.

Check your diary.

So you change the typo in not only your post, but in my quote above as well. Nice one.

To respond in a more serious manner, the last page or so is irrelevant because CCD isn't a fascist region.
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Peigan
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Founded: Mar 24, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Peigan » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:07 am

ly
RiderSyl wrote:I've actually been very critical of TCB, especially when it was run by Zenny and was nothing more than a cult of personality revolving around her.

Anyway, I'd guess that your aggressive criticism of anti-fascists and whataboutism when the negatives of fascism are brought up are the main reasons why you and your regionmates are branded the way you are.

My regionmates? Maybe you should check my nation before you make criticisms about me. Also, this isn't about "whataboutism", it's about the fact that we hardly ever hold leftist regions under the same scrutiny when it comes to their extreme ideologies. Also being critical of TCB because of Zenny is not because of their ideology, it's more on how their region used to be ran. And btw, many in TCB still hold Juche beliefs, which is essentially how Zenny was able to achieve a cult of personality in the first place. And yes, she received backlash because of it, but that doesn't change the fact that many in TCB still hold extremist views.

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RiderSyl
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Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:08 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:To respond in a more serious manner, the last page or so is irrelevant because CCD isn't a fascist region.


You have an embassy with Nazi Europa.
You've bragged about spreading fascism.
You have fascists in your region.

How are you not a fascist region?
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Peigan
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Founded: Mar 24, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Peigan » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:10 am

RiderSyl wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:To respond in a more serious manner, the last page or so is irrelevant because CCD isn't a fascist region.


You have an embassy with Nazi Europa.
You've bragged about spreading fascism.
You have fascists in your region.

How are you not a fascist region?

Don't get me wrong, I abhor Nazi Europa, but from what I've gathered about CCD in the past is that they strive to be as terrible as possible in an almost satirical kind of way. It wouldn't surprise me if they made that embassy just because they knew it would upset people. I think there should be a distinction made between IRL fascist and people RPing terrible nations. For example, an actual fascist doesn't think their dictatorships were corrupt.

Edit: This also distracts from the point that they also have communist dictatorships in their ranks. I think this argument boils down to how serious you take this game.
Last edited by Peigan on Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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RiderSyl
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Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:20 am

Peigan wrote:I think there should be a distinction made between IRL fascist and people RPing terrible nations.


People that are IRL fascists get shunned and blacklisted by the greater NS community (like Nazi Europa). People doing a good job RPing as fascists (rare, but it happens) are treated like the gems they are. People doing a shitty job RPing as fascists get treated badly through in-character means. There's already a distinction. The problem here is how CCD can't be distinguished between shitty roleplayers and IRL fascists, and because CCD has done such an excellent job irritating the rest of NS, we're happy to presume the worst and just thwap them with the biggest sticks we can find.
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RiderSyl
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Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:25 am

Peigan wrote:Edit: This also distracts from the point that they also have communist dictatorships in their ranks. I think this argument boils down to how serious you take this game.


Okay, no, stop that. They received this Liberation because they're seen as fascist. Someone asked why it was passed in the first place. I explained it. You're the one bringing up communism over and over, when it actually has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. You're the one distracting from the point here, not the other way around.
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