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[DEFEATED]Repeal:Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators

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ShrewLlamaLand
Envoy
 
Posts: 227
Founded: Nov 30, 2015
Anarchy

Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:06 am

Lord Dominator wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:Secondly, if an embassy with them is part of the reason we've been liberated, why haven't they been liberated themselves?

Regional relevance

But if they're irrelevant why does it matter if we have an embassy with them?
ShrewLlamaLand
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators | Chancellor's Office

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Lord Dominator
Senator
 
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:08 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:Regional relevance

But if they're irrelevant why does it matter if we have an embassy with them?

Aside from you being under the mistaken impression that's your only problematic embassy, there's a wide gap between being relevant enough to justify offensive Liberation, and complete irrelevance.
Osiris Vizier of WA AffairsDee Vytherov-SkollvaldrDeputy Forest KeeperLieutenant in The Black HawksWA Minister of Lazarus

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ShrewLlamaLand
Envoy
 
Posts: 227
Founded: Nov 30, 2015
Anarchy

Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:12 am

Lord Dominator wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:But if they're irrelevant why does it matter if we have an embassy with them?

Aside from you being under the mistaken impression that's your only problematic embassy, there's a wide gap between being relevant enough to justify offensive Liberation, and complete irrelevance.

Which other embassies would you, personally, classify as problematic?

I don't understand your point. They're not relevant enough to be liberated, but we are relevant and hence qualify for a liberation because we have an embassy with them? As far as I know, no other region has ever been liberated just for holding embassies.
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Grater Tovakia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 462
Founded: Mar 27, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Grater Tovakia » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:16 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:Aside from you being under the mistaken impression that's your only problematic embassy, there's a wide gap between being relevant enough to justify offensive Liberation, and complete irrelevance.

Which other embassies would you, personally, classify as problematic?

I don't understand your point. They're not relevant enough to be liberated, but we are relevant and hence qualify for a liberation because we have an embassy with them? As far as I know, no other region has ever been liberated just for holding embassies.


Nazi Europa for starters

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Lord Dominator
Senator
 
Posts: 4314
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:18 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:Aside from you being under the mistaken impression that's your only problematic embassy, there's a wide gap between being relevant enough to justify offensive Liberation, and complete irrelevance.

Which other embassies would you, personally, classify as problematic?

Nazi Europa for one.
I don't understand your point. They're not relevant enough to be liberated, but we are relevant and hence qualify for a liberation because we have an embassy with them? As far as I know, no other region has ever been liberated just for holding embassies.

Embassies were not the only thing you were Liberated for, nor are they the only thing keeping it in place.
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The New California Republic
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Posts: 14983
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:21 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:Aside from you being under the mistaken impression that's your only problematic embassy, there's a wide gap between being relevant enough to justify offensive Liberation, and complete irrelevance.

Which other embassies would you, personally, classify as problematic?

I don't understand your point. They're not relevant enough to be liberated, but we are relevant and hence qualify for a liberation because we have an embassy with them? As far as I know, no other region has ever been liberated just for holding embassies.

Are you quibbling yet again about whether some regions that you have embassies with are nazi regions? :roll:
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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Grater Tovakia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 462
Founded: Mar 27, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Grater Tovakia » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:22 am

Lord Dominator wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:Which other embassies would you, personally, classify as problematic?

Nazi Europa for one.
I don't understand your point. They're not relevant enough to be liberated, but we are relevant and hence qualify for a liberation because we have an embassy with them? As far as I know, no other region has ever been liberated just for holding embassies.

Embassies were not the only thing you were Liberated for, nor are they the only thing keeping it in place.


Get ninjaed

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Witchcraft and Sorcery
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 55
Founded: Feb 01, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Witchcraft and Sorcery » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:23 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:You think we're fascists outside of NationStates because we don't denounce fascist regions within NationStates?

That's a straw man, not what I was saying at all. I don't know what your politics are outside of NS and I'm not going to get into that. It is utterly irrelevant. I was talking about the things your region's representatives have done in NS. Instead of decrying and blackballing fascists as any respectable organization would do, CCD has defended them and gotten closer to them. Couple that with the annoying tag:all TGs and blatant, relentless self-promotion and you've broken just about every unwritten rule in the book. That's why your region is in the mess it's in and that's why it is utterly incapable of succeeding with these blatant attempts to self-promote.
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ShrewLlamaLand
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Posts: 227
Founded: Nov 30, 2015
Anarchy

Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:38 am

Lord Dominator wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:Which other embassies would you, personally, classify as problematic?

Nazi Europa for one.

What have they done recently?

Lord Dominator wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:I don't understand your point. They're not relevant enough to be liberated, but we are relevant and hence qualify for a liberation because we have an embassy with them? As far as I know, no other region has ever been liberated just for holding embassies.

Embassies were not the only thing you were Liberated for, nor are they the only thing keeping it in place.

Yes, I get the impression people don't like our region very much. Just in general, you know.

Witchcraft and Sorcery wrote:Instead of decrying and blackballing fascists as any respectable organization would do, CCD has defended them and gotten closer to them. Couple that with the annoying tag:all TGs and blatant, relentless self-promotion and you've broken just about every unwritten rule in the book. That's why your region is in the mess it's in and that's why it is utterly incapable of succeeding with these blatant attempts to self-promote.

I still don't understand your point. We have no problems with fascist regions in game - why would we have a problem with them? Why should we be expected to denounce regions roleplaying fascists?

Witchcraft and Sorcery wrote:Couple that with the annoying tag:all TGs and blatant, relentless self-promotion and you've broken just about every unwritten rule in the book. That's why your region is in the mess it's in and that's why it is utterly incapable of succeeding with these blatant attempts to self-promote.

I strongly disagree, we're the 5th largest (non-puppet/card farming) user created region in the game, with a population of over 600 nations. Clearly something is working.
ShrewLlamaLand
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators | Chancellor's Office

"The flag once raised will never fall!"

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Umpus
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 150
Founded: Feb 22, 2019
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Umpus » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:49 am

I wonder what region the author is in?
Conf. of corrupt dictators

Makes sense.
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Caracasus
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Posts: 7440
Founded: Apr 23, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Caracasus » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:54 am

The New California Republic wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:Which other embassies would you, personally, classify as problematic?

I don't understand your point. They're not relevant enough to be liberated, but we are relevant and hence qualify for a liberation because we have an embassy with them? As far as I know, no other region has ever been liberated just for holding embassies.

Are you quibbling yet again about whether some regions that you have embassies with are nazi regions? :roll:


At this point 'but guys! They're just pretending to be fascists!' Is about all they got.
As an editor I seam to spend an awful lot of thyme going threw issues and checking that they're no oblivious errars. Its a tough job but someone's got too do it!



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Evil Dictators Happyland
Minister
 
Posts: 2553
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:01 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Witchcraft and Sorcery wrote:Instead of decrying and blackballing fascists as any respectable organization would do, CCD has defended them and gotten closer to them. Couple that with the annoying tag:all TGs and blatant, relentless self-promotion and you've broken just about every unwritten rule in the book. That's why your region is in the mess it's in and that's why it is utterly incapable of succeeding with these blatant attempts to self-promote.

I still don't understand your point. We have no problems with fascist regions in game - why would we have a problem with them? Why should we be expected to denounce regions roleplaying fascists?

Because A) nearly everybody else does and B) you seem very certain that there aren't any fascists in NS. You might try paying a visit to Nazi Europa to ask them if they're just RPing at some point, I'm sure that it will prove enlightening.
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Witchcraft and Sorcery wrote:Couple that with the annoying tag:all TGs and blatant, relentless self-promotion and you've broken just about every unwritten rule in the book. That's why your region is in the mess it's in and that's why it is utterly incapable of succeeding with these blatant attempts to self-promote.

I strongly disagree, we're the 5th largest (non-puppet/card farming) user created region in the game, with a population of over 600 nations. Clearly something is working.

Region size doesn't mean much of anything with regards to diplomacy. Convincing a noob to join your region is a very different thing from convincing an experienced player to help you out, and your constant stream of mass TGs (which I have long since blocked on this account, but I'm familiar with through puppets and other players) tells me that you really need to learn the difference.
IC name is "The United Socialist States of America".
This nation does not represent my actual political beliefs.
NS stats are mostly canon, but serve more as a guideline than anything else.
Collectivism, capitalism, authority, and individuality all do not function in a vacuum, or at least not on a large enough scale to be worth basing an ideology around, and they must all be tempered by the opposing force. (Not a centrist, by the way, but they do raise good points, and they're probably the most sane and level headed ideology - and yes, mine is no exception.)
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Kurnugia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 911
Founded: Feb 21, 2017
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Kurnugia » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:17 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:Nazi Europa for one.

What have they done recently?

Recently? They are a dead basically.

But since you can't be bothered with reading their WFE...

Nazi Europa is dedicated to political education on matters such as National Socialism and the varying degrees of Fascism


They also were involved in invasions in the past. But luckly due to internal meltdown, they aren't anymore.
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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:20 am

Grater Tovakia wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:Nazi Europa for one.

Embassies were not the only thing you were Liberated for, nor are they the only thing keeping it in place.


Get ninjaed

Booo :(
Osiris Vizier of WA AffairsDee Vytherov-SkollvaldrDeputy Forest KeeperLieutenant in The Black HawksWA Minister of Lazarus

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ShrewLlamaLand
Envoy
 
Posts: 227
Founded: Nov 30, 2015
Anarchy

Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:25 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:I still don't understand your point. We have no problems with fascist regions in game - why would we have a problem with them? Why should we be expected to denounce regions roleplaying fascists?

Because A) nearly everybody else does and B) you seem very certain that there aren't any fascists in NS. You might try paying a visit to Nazi Europa to ask them if they're just RPing at some point, I'm sure that it will prove enlightening.

I'm sure there are real fascists in NationStates, and it's likely that some of our embassy regions do contain some real fascist nations. In fact, given our population size, it's likely that we also have some real-life fascist nations, as does Europe, or the Communist Bloc, or any of the Pacifics.

I've said this many times before, but NationStates is a game. We have embassies with regions for their relations in-game, not outside of it. Frankly, if a region isn't acting on it outside NationStates, why does it matter? We aren't the thought police.

Again, as far as I know, none of the regions we have embassies with engage in fascist activities offsite.

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:I strongly disagree, we're the 5th largest (non-puppet/card farming) user created region in the game, with a population of over 600 nations. Clearly something is working.

Region size doesn't mean much of anything with regards to diplomacy. Convincing a noob to join your region is a very different thing from convincing an experienced player to help you out, and your constant stream of mass TGs (which I have long since blocked on this account, but I'm familiar with through puppets and other players) tells me that you really need to learn the difference.

The Confederation's average population, which is the best measure of a nation's age, is over 2 billion. This works out to be about a year old.

This is pretty close to other large, user-created regions (again, like Europe or The Communist Bloc), and is well above the average age of feeder regions.
ShrewLlamaLand
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators | Chancellor's Office

"The flag once raised will never fall!"

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Posts: 1786
Founded: Dec 17, 2003
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:28 am

and is well above the average age of feeder regions.

Well duh, it’s bound to be isn’t it.
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Wallenburg
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Posts: 19965
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wallenburg » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:42 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:Nazi Europa for one.

What have they done recently?

Being Nazis?
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Prydania
Diplomat
 
Posts: 984
Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Prydania » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:01 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Grater Tovakia wrote:you may not be a RL facist, but without a doubt CCD facilitates facism.

But is that alone grounds for a liberation?

Yes.

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Caracasus
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 7440
Founded: Apr 23, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Caracasus » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:04 am

Prydania wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:But is that alone grounds for a liberation?

Yes.


We asked the audience and they said 'yes' and 'yes but also because of the TG spam'
As an editor I seam to spend an awful lot of thyme going threw issues and checking that they're no oblivious errars. Its a tough job but someone's got too do it!



Issues editor, not a moderator.

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Evil Dictators Happyland
Minister
 
Posts: 2553
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:44 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:Region size doesn't mean much of anything with regards to diplomacy. Convincing a noob to join your region is a very different thing from convincing an experienced player to help you out, and your constant stream of mass TGs (which I have long since blocked on this account, but I'm familiar with through puppets and other players) tells me that you really need to learn the difference.

The Confederation's average population, which is the best measure of a nation's age, is over 2 billion. This works out to be about a year old.

This is pretty close to other large, user-created regions (again, like Europe or The Communist Bloc), and is well above the average age of feeder regions.

Again, convincing noobs to join your region isn't even remotely the same thing as creating interregional diplomatic relationships.
If you deliberately piss off everybody else, then you forfeit the right to call foul when we stop ignoring you and start doing something about it.
IC name is "The United Socialist States of America".
This nation does not represent my actual political beliefs.
NS stats are mostly canon, but serve more as a guideline than anything else.
Collectivism, capitalism, authority, and individuality all do not function in a vacuum, or at least not on a large enough scale to be worth basing an ideology around, and they must all be tempered by the opposing force. (Not a centrist, by the way, but they do raise good points, and they're probably the most sane and level headed ideology - and yes, mine is no exception.)
Shrek dies in Endgame.
My factbooks are quite messy, I'll update them sometime in the distant future.
Political compass: -5.5 economic, -3.54 social (social democrat), will retake every few months.

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New Bremerton
Envoy
 
Posts: 279
Founded: Jul 20, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New Bremerton » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:45 am

Reading through this thread, the CCD comes off even worse than before. Fascist or not, they're pretty annoying and they should be raided for that alone. Voted AGAINST.

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Marxist Germany
Diplomat
 
Posts: 717
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Marxist Germany » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:05 pm

RiderSyl wrote:... Jocospor went and spent over 170 dollars on this game a few days after that post...

1.There aren't that many nations in the WA for it to cost 170
2.How do you know
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Lord Dominator
Senator
 
Posts: 4314
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:08 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:
RiderSyl wrote:... Jocospor went and spent over 170 dollars on this game a few days after that post...

1.There aren't that many nations in the WA for it to cost 170
2.How do you know

Because it was a tg:all, not a tg:wa
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Marxist Germany
Diplomat
 
Posts: 717
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Marxist Germany » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:09 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:1.There aren't that many nations in the WA for it to cost 170
2.How do you know

Because it was a tg:all, not a tg:wa

Why didn't I get it even though I have everything set to allow all?
"Marxist" no longer applies to this country. This country was made back when I was a leftist.
Author of GA#461

IC:
RP name: Germany
The National Factbook (WIP)
Ambassador Klaus Schmidt
Political Compass
Pro:Laissez-faire, Nationalism, Guns, Free speech, Christianity, Same-sex marriage, United Ireland.
Anti:Transgenderism, Abortion, Socialism, Interventionism, Mass-migration.

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Xoriet
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1506
Founded: Jun 08, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Xoriet » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:30 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:Because it was a tg:all, not a tg:wa

Why didn't I get it even though I have everything set to allow all?

It was marked as recruitment.
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