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[DEFEATED]Repeal:Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

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Castelia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 757
Founded: Sep 04, 2015
Libertarian Police State

Postby Castelia » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:52 am

Grater Tovakia wrote:I am not talking about CCD, but regions you have embassies with did. and Shrew decided to say all those truly fascist regions just do RP.


Unless I'm reading something wrong here (English isn't my first language, please excuse me for that), Shrew said nothing of the sort. He insists the CCD does all of those things (embassies, promotion) as IC activities, not OOC. He wasn't talking about fascists regions in general, just the CCD.
Last edited by Castelia on Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ShrewLlamaLand
Diplomat
 
Posts: 750
Founded: Nov 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:53 am

Grater Tovakia wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:No, all it means is that we don't discriminate against people for roleplaying fascist nations in a game. Just like we don't discriminate against democratic regions, for example, if they choose to have positive relations with our region.


Ah okay so talking about how the Holocaust was fake and Jews have a victim complex is just roleplay

There we go, you have no idea what you're talking about.

People who talk about how "the Holocaust was fake and Jews have a victim complex" are Nazis. Some fascists are Nazis. Not all Nazis are fascists. The CCD has never been involved with Nazism.

To answer your second question, sure, anything can be roleplay. There are plenty of strategy/shooter games that allow you to play as Nazi Germany. That doesn't mean the person playing them wants to join NSDAP.

As far as I know, none of the regions we have embassies with currently engage in Nazi activities outside of NationStates.

Castelia wrote:
Grater Tovakia wrote:I am not talking about CCD, but regions you have embassies with did. and Shrew decided to say all those truly fascist regions just do RP.


Unless I'm reading something wrong here (English isn't my first language, please excuse me for that), Shrew said nothing of the sort. He insists the CCD does all of those things (embassies, promotion) as IC activities, not OOC. He wasn't talking about fascists regions in general, just the CCD.

That's correct.
Last edited by ShrewLlamaLand on Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
ShrewLlamaLand
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators | Commission to the World Assembly

"The flag once raised will never fall!"

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Grater Tovakia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 534
Founded: Mar 27, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Grater Tovakia » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:08 am

People who talk about how "the Holocaust was fake and Jews have a victim complex" are Nazis. Some fascists are Nazis. Not all Nazis are fascists. The CCD has never been involved with Nazism.


Might want to check out https://www.nationstates.net/region=farkasfalka, and https://www.nationstates.net/region=the ... azi_empire to name a few
“A tank and its crew has but one reason to exist. To maneuver the tank’s cannon to a position where it could do the most damage and feed it once it was there.”
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ShrewLlamaLand
Diplomat
 
Posts: 750
Founded: Nov 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:12 am

Grater Tovakia wrote:
People who talk about how "the Holocaust was fake and Jews have a victim complex" are Nazis. Some fascists are Nazis. Not all Nazis are fascists. The CCD has never been involved with Nazism.


Might want to check out https://www.nationstates.net/region=farkasfalka, and https://www.nationstates.net/region=the ... azi_empire to name a few

What has Farkasfalka done outside of roleplay within NationStates? The second region you linked looks to be a puppet of theirs.

Secondly, if an embassy with them is part of the reason we've been liberated, why haven't they been liberated themselves?
ShrewLlamaLand
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators | Commission to the World Assembly

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Grater Tovakia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 534
Founded: Mar 27, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Grater Tovakia » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:12 am

Castelia wrote:
Grater Tovakia wrote:I am not talking about CCD, but regions you have embassies with did. and Shrew decided to say all those truly fascist regions just do RP.


Unless I'm reading something wrong here (English isn't my first language, please excuse me for that), Shrew said nothing of the sort. He insists the CCD does all of those things (embassies, promotion) as IC activities, not OOC. He wasn't talking about fascists regions in general, just the CCD.



not really sure how you got that from

"No, all it means is that we don't discriminate against people for roleplaying fascist nations in a game. Just like we don't discriminate against democratic regions, for example, if they choose to have positive relations with our region."

That statement says that no matter the beliefs of the region, as long as they are nice to you there will be the establishment of relations.

(also going to ignore the use of Facist RP Nations, not regions in shrews statement.)
“A tank and its crew has but one reason to exist. To maneuver the tank’s cannon to a position where it could do the most damage and feed it once it was there.”
― Harold Coyle

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Grater Tovakia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 534
Founded: Mar 27, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Grater Tovakia » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:13 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:

What has Farkasfalka done outside of roleplay within NationStates? The second region you linked looks to be a puppet of theirs.

Secondly, if an embassy with them is part of the reason we've been liberated, why haven't they been liberated themselves?



I mean first off they raid in the name of fascism secondly there discord has been the site of some serious anti-semetic comments.
“A tank and its crew has but one reason to exist. To maneuver the tank’s cannon to a position where it could do the most damage and feed it once it was there.”
― Harold Coyle

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ShrewLlamaLand
Diplomat
 
Posts: 750
Founded: Nov 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:15 am

Grater Tovakia wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:What has Farkasfalka done outside of roleplay within NationStates? The second region you linked looks to be a puppet of theirs.

Secondly, if an embassy with them is part of the reason we've been liberated, why haven't they been liberated themselves?



I mean first off they raid in the name of fascism secondly there discord has been the site of some serious anti-semetic comments.

Raiding in the name of fascism is still roleplay within NationStates.

I don't know anything about their Discord, I've never joined it myself. I'd hope any comments of that nature were made entirely for the purpose of roleplay.
ShrewLlamaLand
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators | Commission to the World Assembly

"The flag once raised will never fall!"

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Grater Tovakia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 534
Founded: Mar 27, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Grater Tovakia » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:16 am

The "why don't they get liberated" argument is terrible because a 60 nation region that promotes an abhorrent ideology does not deserve the SCs attention. However when you have a region recruiting massive amounts of new players and exposing them to the dark underbelly of NS then it is the mission of the SC to counter the afore mentioned region.
“A tank and its crew has but one reason to exist. To maneuver the tank’s cannon to a position where it could do the most damage and feed it once it was there.”
― Harold Coyle

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Caracasus
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 7919
Founded: Apr 23, 2015
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Caracasus » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:18 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Grater Tovakia wrote:

I mean first off they raid in the name of fascism secondly there discord has been the site of some serious anti-semetic comments.

Raiding in the name of fascism is still roleplay within NationStates.

I don't know anything about their Discord, I've never joined it myself. I'd hope any comments of that nature were made entirely for the purpose of roleplay.


Then we liberated you in the name of antifascism and that.

Seriously though, pull the other one.
As an editor I seam to spend an awful lot of thyme going threw issues and checking that they're no oblivious errars. Its a tough job but someone's got too do it!



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Grater Tovakia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 534
Founded: Mar 27, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Grater Tovakia » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:19 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Grater Tovakia wrote:

I mean first off they raid in the name of fascism secondly there discord has been the site of some serious anti-semetic comments.

Raiding in the name of fascism is still roleplay within NationStates.

I don't know anything about their Discord, I've never joined it myself. I'd hope any comments of that nature were made entirely for the purpose of roleplay.


I don't think you understand the RP/GP line. which does not surprise me as your leader puts OOC in front of everything he says. GP is inherently OOC, so calling it RP is not a defense. Also calling anti-semetic comments made by leading figures of the region are not RP.
“A tank and its crew has but one reason to exist. To maneuver the tank’s cannon to a position where it could do the most damage and feed it once it was there.”
― Harold Coyle

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ShrewLlamaLand
Diplomat
 
Posts: 750
Founded: Nov 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:22 am

Caracasus wrote:Then we liberated you in the name of antifascism and that.

But we aren't a fascist region...

Grater Tovakia wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:Raiding in the name of fascism is still roleplay within NationStates.

I don't know anything about their Discord, I've never joined it myself. I'd hope any comments of that nature were made entirely for the purpose of roleplay.


I don't think you understand the RP/GP line. which does not surprise me as your leader puts OOC in front of everything he says. GP is inherently OOC, so calling it RP is not a defense. Also calling anti-semetic comments made by leading figures of the region are not RP.

They are roleplay if they were intended to be interpreted wholly within the game, and not to be taken literally outside of it.
ShrewLlamaLand
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators | Commission to the World Assembly

"The flag once raised will never fall!"

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Caracasus
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 7919
Founded: Apr 23, 2015
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Caracasus » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:30 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Caracasus wrote:Then we liberated you in the name of antifascism and that.

But we aren't a fascist region...

Grater Tovakia wrote:
I don't think you understand the RP/GP line. which does not surprise me as your leader puts OOC in front of everything he says. GP is inherently OOC, so calling it RP is not a defense. Also calling anti-semetic comments made by leading figures of the region are not RP.

They are roleplay if they were intended to be interpreted wholly within the game, and not to be taken literally outside of it.


Nobody believes you and because your leadership has thoroughly botched every attempt to explain otherwise - even on the moderation thread - and refused to take the most basic steps everyone suggested to distance yourself from fascism it is unlikely anyone will believe you.

Coupled with that your region is also known for annoying TG campaigns, breaking unwritten rules and attempting to poach nations from other regions and spamming the SC with badly written attempts to self commend.

For those who do go into the Sec Council your region is also known for these long, pointless debates where your leadership never ever takes on board constructive criticism, whines constantly when people rightly get annoyed at you and well, less said about the events ikn this thread the better. I also understand that you've not been making any friends in the sports RP community.

You need to learn to work with others better and stop seeing everything as a conflict that must be won at any cost if you actually want to make any headway in this part of the game.
As an editor I seam to spend an awful lot of thyme going threw issues and checking that they're no oblivious errars. Its a tough job but someone's got too do it!



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ShrewLlamaLand
Diplomat
 
Posts: 750
Founded: Nov 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:40 am

Caracasus wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:But we aren't a fascist region...


They are roleplay if they were intended to be interpreted wholly within the game, and not to be taken literally outside of it.


Nobody believes you and because your leadership has thoroughly botched every attempt to explain otherwise - even on the moderation thread - and refused to take the most basic steps everyone suggested to distance yourself from fascism it is unlikely anyone will believe you.

Coupled with that your region is also known for annoying TG campaigns, breaking unwritten rules and attempting to poach nations from other regions and spamming the SC with badly written attempts to self commend.

For those who do go into the Sec Council your region is also known for these long, pointless debates where your leadership never ever takes on board constructive criticism, whines constantly when people rightly get annoyed at you and well, less said about the events ikn this thread the better. I also understand that you've not been making any friends in the sports RP community.

You need to learn to work with others better and stop seeing everything as a conflict that must be won at any cost if you actually want to make any headway in this part of the game.

What don't you believe? That we aren't real life fascists? I'm telling you right now that no one in the Confederation's government, the Supreme Council, is a real-life fascist. Of course I can't be expected to verify that's also true of the 600+ other nations who reside in our region.

"Annoying" telegram campaigns don't deserve a liberation. Unwritten rules aren't rules. Poaching nations doesn't deserve a liberation. "Spamming" the SC is not only false, and hey, I wrote those... badly written, pfft, wait till he sees my next masterpiece. Taking on board "constructive" criticism would be easier if it was even remotely constructive. We don't whine. And a conflict requires two parties, if things get heated you can't blame that entirely on us.
ShrewLlamaLand
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators | Commission to the World Assembly

"The flag once raised will never fall!"

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Frisbeeteria
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 24765
Founded: Dec 16, 2003
Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:42 am

Caracasus wrote:You need to learn to work with others better and stop seeing everything as a conflict that must be won at any cost if you actually want to make any headway in this part of the game.

There are different goals for different players in this game. If their objective is to be obnoxious internet trolls, they're doing an fine job.

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Grater Tovakia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 534
Founded: Mar 27, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Grater Tovakia » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:47 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Caracasus wrote:
Nobody believes you and because your leadership has thoroughly botched every attempt to explain otherwise - even on the moderation thread - and refused to take the most basic steps everyone suggested to distance yourself from fascism it is unlikely anyone will believe you.

Coupled with that your region is also known for annoying TG campaigns, breaking unwritten rules and attempting to poach nations from other regions and spamming the SC with badly written attempts to self commend.

For those who do go into the Sec Council your region is also known for these long, pointless debates where your leadership never ever takes on board constructive criticism, whines constantly when people rightly get annoyed at you and well, less said about the events ikn this thread the better. I also understand that you've not been making any friends in the sports RP community.

You need to learn to work with others better and stop seeing everything as a conflict that must be won at any cost if you actually want to make any headway in this part of the game.

What don't you believe? That we aren't real life fascists? I'm telling you right now that no one in the Confederation's government, the Supreme Council, is a real-life fascist. Of course I can't be expected to verify that's also true of the 600+ other nations who reside in our region.

"Annoying" telegram campaigns don't deserve a liberation. Unwritten rules aren't rules. Poaching nations doesn't deserve a liberation. "Spamming" the SC is not only false, and hey, I wrote those... badly written, pfft, wait till he sees my next masterpiece. Taking on board "constructive" criticism would be easier if it was even remotely constructive. We don't whine. And a conflict requires two parties, if things get heated you can't blame that entirely on us.



you may not be a RL facist, but without a doubt CCD facilitates facism.
“A tank and its crew has but one reason to exist. To maneuver the tank’s cannon to a position where it could do the most damage and feed it once it was there.”
― Harold Coyle

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Evil Dictators Happyland
Senator
 
Posts: 3514
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:48 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Caracasus wrote:
Nobody believes you and because your leadership has thoroughly botched every attempt to explain otherwise - even on the moderation thread - and refused to take the most basic steps everyone suggested to distance yourself from fascism it is unlikely anyone will believe you.

Coupled with that your region is also known for annoying TG campaigns, breaking unwritten rules and attempting to poach nations from other regions and spamming the SC with badly written attempts to self commend.

For those who do go into the Sec Council your region is also known for these long, pointless debates where your leadership never ever takes on board constructive criticism, whines constantly when people rightly get annoyed at you and well, less said about the events ikn this thread the better. I also understand that you've not been making any friends in the sports RP community.

You need to learn to work with others better and stop seeing everything as a conflict that must be won at any cost if you actually want to make any headway in this part of the game.

What don't you believe? That we aren't real life fascists? I'm telling you right now that no one in the Confederation's government, the Supreme Council, is a real-life fascist. Of course I can't be expected to verify that's also true of the 600+ other nations who reside in our region.

"Annoying" telegram campaigns don't deserve a liberation. Unwritten rules aren't rules. Poaching nations doesn't deserve a liberation. "Spamming" the SC is not only false, and hey, I wrote those... badly written, pfft, wait till he sees my next masterpiece. Taking on board "constructive" criticism would be easier if it was even remotely constructive. We don't whine. And a conflict requires two parties, if things get heated you can't blame that entirely on us.

Am I the only one that thinks it's stupid to piss people off and then complain when they get pissed off?
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Lake Perseverance
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 7
Founded: Dec 26, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Lake Perseverance » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:51 am

I mean, why? You're not a real corrupt dictator if you don't allow open borders, or so say some.

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The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28774
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:51 am

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Caracasus wrote:You need to learn to work with others better and stop seeing everything as a conflict that must be won at any cost if you actually want to make any headway in this part of the game.

There are different goals for different players in this game. If their objective is to be obnoxious internet trolls, they're doing an fine job.

:lol2:
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
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ShrewLlamaLand
Diplomat
 
Posts: 750
Founded: Nov 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:52 am

Grater Tovakia wrote:you may not be a RL facist, but without a doubt CCD facilitates facism.

But is that alone grounds for a liberation?

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Caracasus wrote:You need to learn to work with others better and stop seeing everything as a conflict that must be won at any cost if you actually want to make any headway in this part of the game.

There are different goals for different players in this game. If their objective is to be obnoxious internet trolls, they're doing an fine job.

That's not our goal, although it's very encouraging to see a game moderator claim it is.

Jocospor wrote:*sigh* Moderators can be so disappointingly partial :(
ShrewLlamaLand
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators | Commission to the World Assembly

"The flag once raised will never fall!"

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Evil Dictators Happyland
Senator
 
Posts: 3514
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:54 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Grater Tovakia wrote:you may not be a RL facist, but without a doubt CCD facilitates facism.

But is that alone grounds for a liberation?

Frisbeeteria wrote:There are different goals for different players in this game. If their objective is to be obnoxious internet trolls, they're doing an fine job.

That's not our goal, although it's very encouraging to see a game moderator claim it is.

Jocospor wrote:*sigh* Moderators can be so disappointingly partial :(

Game moderators are people. People are entitled to opinions.
Would you prefer it if they used a puppet account to state their point of view?
Killer Queen has already touched this signature.

Telconi wrote:My point is that believing scientists is bad. And people ought not do this thing.

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Grater Tovakia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 534
Founded: Mar 27, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Grater Tovakia » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:55 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Grater Tovakia wrote:you may not be a RL facist, but without a doubt CCD facilitates facism.

But is that alone grounds for a liberation?

Frisbeeteria wrote:There are different goals for different players in this game. If their objective is to be obnoxious internet trolls, they're doing an fine job.

That's not our goal, although it's very encouraging to see a game moderator claim it is.

Jocospor wrote:*sigh* Moderators can be so disappointingly partial :(



Yes it can absolutely be grounds for liberation, also making comments about mods generates modly wrath.
“A tank and its crew has but one reason to exist. To maneuver the tank’s cannon to a position where it could do the most damage and feed it once it was there.”
― Harold Coyle

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Caracasus
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 7919
Founded: Apr 23, 2015
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Caracasus » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:56 am

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Caracasus wrote:You need to learn to work with others better and stop seeing everything as a conflict that must be won at any cost if you actually want to make any headway in this part of the game.

There are different goals for different players in this game. If their objective is to be obnoxious internet trolls, they're doing an fine job.


That's a fair point actually...
As an editor I seam to spend an awful lot of thyme going threw issues and checking that they're no oblivious errars. Its a tough job but someone's got too do it!



Issues editor, not a moderator.

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Witchcraft and Sorcery
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 63
Founded: Feb 01, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Witchcraft and Sorcery » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:59 am

I realize I'm somewhat late, but I've had a chance to read a lot of this thread. The statements of CCD members, the obnoxious TG spam in my inbox, and the asinine, unresponsive clauses of the repeal attempt all really show why this body liberated CCD in the first place. I am pleased to see that this resolution was stomped upon the vote beginning.

I have no problem with a "confederation of corrupt dictators" as an IC region or concept. It could be kinda cool. I can definitely imagine an appropriate way to do it, but this is not one of them. There's a difference between roleplaying corruption/backdoor scheming and being openly OOC friendly towards and refusing to denounce fascists after being served up meatball after meatball, and instead of hitting them out of the park, not even taking a swing.

You can say "we're not fascist" all you want. But the rest of your words and actions do not seem to back you up particularly well. It's been the case for a while, but at this point especially, CCD has struck out. I'll be shocked if this liberation is repealed in the near future.


Gameplay nerd. Defender. Formerly of 10000 Islands. Call me W&S, call me crazy, call me whatever you want, just don't call me with an @everyone ping on discord and expect me to respond.

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ShrewLlamaLand
Diplomat
 
Posts: 750
Founded: Nov 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:03 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:Game moderators are people. People are entitled to opinions.
Would you prefer it if they used a puppet account to state their point of view?

I never claimed otherwise. And honestly, yes.

Grater Tovakia wrote:Yes it can absolutely be grounds for liberation

I mean you have a point, really anything can be ground for a liberation if the SC votes for it.

My response to that would be: that would make us the only region to have been liberated for being associated with fascist regions, correct? Why?

Witchcraft and Sorcery wrote:You can say "we're not fascist" all you want. But the rest of your words and actions do not seem to back you up particularly well.

You think we're fascists outside of NationStates because we don't denounce fascist regions within NationStates?
ShrewLlamaLand
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators | Commission to the World Assembly

"The flag once raised will never fall!"

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Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6106
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:04 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:Secondly, if an embassy with them is part of the reason we've been liberated, why haven't they been liberated themselves?

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