[DEFEATED/DISCARDED] Condemn Civil Defence Siren

[Greater vakolicci haven]

NGL, he could have put 'greater vakolicci haven' at the end of that campaign telegram and I wouldn't have minded, the civil defence siren is one of the worst things about ns Antifa, as it spreads unproveable garbage to new people who don't know better.

Antifa has nothing to do with the Civil Defence Siren. It was implemented entirely by the New Pacific Order.

Don't mainstream Antifa count the NPO as part of their number anymore, or won't they play with them because NPO bad?

[The Reddington States]

Antifa has nothing to do with the Civil Defence Siren. It was implemented entirely by the New Pacific Order.

Don't mainstream Antifa count the NPO as part of their number anymore, or won't they play with them because NPO bad?

I'm pretty sure some members of Antifa tell The North Pacific who and who isn't fascist. Vippertooth promised to talk to the NPO about removing Redlandia off the list but nothing has changed. Until we're taken off the list I believe that Antifa has ties with the CDS. They don't even need to be operating the CDS to be considered "linked" with the NPO.

[The Reddington States]

I guess I'll be the one to provide the campaign telegram here for perusal.

The Imperial Empire of Jocospor → Slackertown, tag: delegates
1 day 18 hours ago
This one's OOC today.

A nation in my region, Slackertown, has recently written a Security Council proposal to Condemn Civil Defence Siren.

For those who don't know what this is, a handful of regions have been blacklisted by this "siren" - when a new nation joins one of the regions, they get a telegram along the lines of "Don't live here. Bad. Horrible place."

In my opinion, and I'm sure not everyone will agree, but this is unnecessary and, to be honest, pretty rude. Each of us are entitled to be allowed to create our own communities the way we want to. If you're not happy with someone's community, just don't be a part of it. And, on that, a lot of people who don't like certain communities just don't understand them. I'd encourage people to send puppets here and there if they really want to learn about a region's workings, not just fire off misrepresenting telegrams.

More so, a lot of the players who get the Civil Defence Siren are new (I think that must be specified in the API or something). These new players haven't had the opportunity to properly experience NationStates yet. It's not fair on them, or NationStates as a whole, to start perpetuating false understandings of what this game is.

Please approve this proposal. It seems the right thing to do, and will hopefully encourage the benefactors of the Civil Defence Siren to reconsider their actions.

Thanks everyone. Have a good day.

- Jocospor

NGL, he could have put 'greater vakolicci haven' at the end of that campaign telegram and I wouldn't have minded, the civil defence siren is one of the worst things about ns Antifa, as it spreads unproveable garbage to new people who don't know better.

This is why the CDS is ultimately worthless: it's basically hearsay. New users aren't as naive as the CDS implies.

[Christian Confederation]

I realize taking on the Pacific Political Gang is impossible but let's give democracy a chance shall we?

This has no chance of passing, due in part to the current political climate of the WA, and the reputation of your region. Even if individual nations' votes actually mattered, this would be defeated. You're also going to be fighting more than just the Pacifics.

Ie antifa and anyone who believes this CDS propaganda

[Charleotopia]

LMAOOOOOOOOO this is the most useless siren ever. It emboldens fascists and provokes non-fascists in the list and otherwise doesn't do shit. Fascists want to be listed on there; to them it's like an endorsement. Meanwhile it has done nothing to keep number of members entering listed regions at zero

The CDS is only in effect when a user leaves a Pacific feeder region, so a user can join an unlisted region and then later join one that is listed, and the CDS wouldn't send the telegram because it didn't depart a feeder region. It's amazing how the NPO thinks the CDS is a brilliant idea

[Charleotopia]

Don't mainstream Antifa count the NPO as part of their number anymore, or won't they play with them because NPO bad?

I'm pretty sure some members of Antifa tell The North Pacific who and who isn't fascist. Vippertooth promised to talk to the NPO about removing Redlandia off the list but nothing has changed. Until we're taken off the list I believe that Antifa has ties with the CDS. They don't even need to be operating the CDS to be considered "linked" with the NPO.

Nothing else needs to be known other than the fact that we'd only be removed from the CDS list if we capitulate to all of Antifa's demands

[Jocospor]

The point of CDS is to let prospective members of these fascist regions know they're in a fascist region. For example, a normal dictatorship wants to join CCD but doesn't know its fascist. The CDS lets them know that. If they're fascist, well then okay.

Also my usual 'redlandia big fascist so their opinion doesn't matter' applies.

Except for the fact that, you know, the Confederation and many of the other regions targeted by CDS aren't fascist, but just perceived as being so.

Antifa has nothing to do with the Civil Defence Siren. It was implemented entirely by the New Pacific Order.

Don't mainstream Antifa count the NPO as part of their number anymore, or won't they play with them because NPO bad?

If NPO is responsible for the Civil Defence Siren then that's got to be just about the most hypocritic thing we've heard all year.

[Jocospor]

I just realized about a minute late that the active clause is "Hereby Condemns Civil Defense Siren", but the nation being targeted for the condemn is "Civil Defence Siren". This is an R3 violation and therefore I've marked this proposal to be discarded at the end of the vote. I blame Wrapper.

It wasn't my fault. Honest. I ran out of gas. I had a flat tire. I… I didn’t have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn’t come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake! A terrible flood! Locusts! IT WASN’T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!

OOC: I don't find this very funny. This isn't the first time the moderators have dropped the ball when it comes to typos/errors/whatevers. Thanks to your negligence, a player that tried to do something is left feeling like they failed, whilst knowing that their failure could have been avoided if others had bothered to read their proposal a little more closely. I didn't pick up on this mistake (and, yes, it was very small) - but, likewise, I'm not a moderator and it's not my job to find the proposal's illegalities. And this isn't an honest mistake or anything like that: it's a typo. Everyone makes typos, so responding with something along the lines of "It's the author's responsibility as much as it's mine" holds no weight. Using an excuse like that implies that moderators have no greater responsibility.

I think the fact that you tried to laugh this one was off in pretty poor taste, really, and only perpetuates the divide that the average player sees between themselves and the moderators/those at the top end. Neither you nor Ransium have offered anything in the way of an apologetic tone; I might, were I you.

I made this a separate post because it's a separate issue and deserved its own.

[American Pere Housh]

"The Confederacy supports this resolution."

[Firelia]

This is simply ridiculous, the WA should be taking part on the control of nazis and fascists, but it doesn't, then it comes one nation and region doing the job that the WA don't want to do, and the WA condemns it, instead of condemning the nazis it condemns those who attack the nazis that it should be attacking and condemning, this is outrageous

[The Reddington States]

It wasn't my fault. Honest. I ran out of gas. I had a flat tire. I… I didn’t have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn’t come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake! A terrible flood! Locusts! IT WASN’T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!

OOC: I don't find this very funny. This isn't the first time the moderators have dropped the ball when it comes to typos/errors/whatevers. Thanks to your negligence, a player that tried to do something is left feeling like they failed, whilst knowing that their failure could have been avoided if others had bothered to read their proposal a little more closely. I didn't pick up on this mistake (and, yes, it was very small) - but, likewise, I'm not a moderator and it's not my job to find the proposal's illegalities. And this isn't an honest mistake or anything like that: it's a typo. Everyone makes typos, so responding with something along the lines of "It's the author's responsibility as much as it's mine" holds no weight. Using an excuse like that implies that moderators have no greater responsibility.

I think the fact that you tried to laugh this one was off in pretty poor taste, really, and only perpetuates the divide that the average player sees between themselves and the moderators/those at the top end. Neither you nor Ransium have offered anything in the way of an apologetic tone; I might, were I you.

I made this a separate post because it's a separate issue and deserved its own.

This is expected moderator behavior. Trust me, I know.

[Wrapper]

OOC: I don't find this very funny. This isn't the first time the moderators have dropped the ball when it comes to typos/errors/whatevers. Thanks to your negligence, a player that tried to do something is left feeling like they failed, whilst knowing that their failure could have been avoided if others had bothered to read their proposal a little more closely. I didn't pick up on this mistake (and, yes, it was very small) - but, likewise, I'm not a moderator and it's not my job to find the proposal's illegalities. And this isn't an honest mistake or anything like that: it's a typo. Everyone makes typos, so responding with something along the lines of "It's the author's responsibility as much as it's mine" holds no weight. Using an excuse like that implies that moderators have no greater responsibility.

I think the fact that you tried to laugh this one was off in pretty poor taste, really, and only perpetuates the divide that the average player sees between themselves and the moderators/those at the top end. Neither you nor Ransium have offered anything in the way of an apologetic tone; I might, were I you.

I made this a separate post because it's a separate issue and deserved its own.

Oh, lighten up. We missed it, the author missed it, everyone who commented on this thread missed it, and everyone who approved it missed it. We're human, just like everyone else.

[The Gilded Star]

Except for the fact that, you know, the Confederation and many of the other regions targeted by CDS aren't fascist, but just perceived as being so.

Of the 17 regions tagged by the Civil Defence Siren:
1 describes itself as both Nazi and fascist
1 describes itself as Nazi
7 describe themselves as fascist
2 do not describe themselves as fascist, but do prescribe similar beliefs and values, which makes the accusation plausible at the very least
1 fits the above description but is also named as a defender of a self-described Nazi region
3 do not readily describe themselves as having Nazi and/or Fascist preferences
2 have been raided (these are removed from consideration)

That means only 33% of the listed regions aren't openly self-identifiable as Nazi/Fascist, which is not close to many, compared to the 67% who freely declare themselves as such.

And this is just from reading their WFEs and going no deeper than that.

[Jocospor]

OOC: I don't find this very funny. This isn't the first time the moderators have dropped the ball when it comes to typos/errors/whatevers. Thanks to your negligence, a player that tried to do something is left feeling like they failed, whilst knowing that their failure could have been avoided if others had bothered to read their proposal a little more closely. I didn't pick up on this mistake (and, yes, it was very small) - but, likewise, I'm not a moderator and it's not my job to find the proposal's illegalities. And this isn't an honest mistake or anything like that: it's a typo. Everyone makes typos, so responding with something along the lines of "It's the author's responsibility as much as it's mine" holds no weight. Using an excuse like that implies that moderators have no greater responsibility.

I think the fact that you tried to laugh this one was off in pretty poor taste, really, and only perpetuates the divide that the average player sees between themselves and the moderators/those at the top end. Neither you nor Ransium have offered anything in the way of an apologetic tone; I might, were I you.

I made this a separate post because it's a separate issue and deserved its own.

Oh, lighten up. We missed it, the author missed it, everyone who commented on this thread missed it, and everyone who approved it missed it. We're human, just like everyone else.

OOC: You're supposed to be a higher authority than the author. The argument which you've given is one I already said holds no weight. If you're going to run with it, you should display a similarly apathetic approach to discarding illegal proposals that have made it to vote. Or do we suddenly now have double standards?

[Lord Dominator]

OOC: You're supposed to be a higher authority than the author

Only in enforcing the rules. That doesn't mean that the moderators are implicitly any better at noticing tiny spelling errors than anyone else.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

OOC: I don't find this very funny. This isn't the first time the moderators have dropped the ball when it comes to typos/errors/whatevers. Thanks to your negligence, a player that tried to do something is left feeling like they failed, whilst knowing that their failure could have been avoided if others had bothered to read their proposal a little more closely.

The author spent stuff all time in the drafting stage, deciding to submit it almost immediately after writing it. I think I posted about it 5 hours after the OP and it was already looking for approvals. A bit more patience and the error may have been picked up before they submitted it.

The fault is the author’s, nobody else’s and they have failed.

[Lord Dominator]

OOC: I don't find this very funny. This isn't the first time the moderators have dropped the ball when it comes to typos/errors/whatevers. Thanks to your negligence, a player that tried to do something is left feeling like they failed, whilst knowing that their failure could have been avoided if others had bothered to read their proposal a little more closely.

The author spent stuff all time in the drafting stage, deciding to submit it almost immediately after writing it. I think I posted about it 5 hours after the OP and it was already looking for approvals. A bit more patience and the error may have been picked up before they submitted it.

The fault is the author’s, nobody else’s and they have failed.

Incidentally, my count is that the thread was created at, or within an hour before, it was submission. That doesn't really qualify as forum drafting

[Great Britain SSR]

It wasn't my fault. Honest. I ran out of gas. I had a flat tire. I… I didn’t have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn’t come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake! A terrible flood! Locusts! IT WASN’T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!

OOC: I don't find this very funny. This isn't the first time the moderators have dropped the ball when it comes to typos/errors/whatevers. Thanks to your negligence, a player that tried to do something is left feeling like they failed, whilst knowing that their failure could have been avoided if others had bothered to read their proposal a little more closely. I didn't pick up on this mistake (and, yes, it was very small) - but, likewise, I'm not a moderator and it's not my job to find the proposal's illegalities. And this isn't an honest mistake or anything like that: it's a typo. Everyone makes typos, so responding with something along the lines of "It's the author's responsibility as much as it's mine" holds no weight. Using an excuse like that implies that moderators have no greater responsibility.

I think the fact that you tried to laugh this one was off in pretty poor taste, really, and only perpetuates the divide that the average player sees between themselves and the moderators/those at the top end. Neither you nor Ransium have offered anything in the way of an apologetic tone; I might, were I you.

I made this a separate post because it's a separate issue and deserved its own.

Why should we feel sorry for the player? They obviously didn't put any effort into this, they didn't accept any improvements and they even posted how hilarious it is that everyone is saying its illegal. You're being a sissy about it, aw you being vewy sad youw wes-man doesn't get his authow badge?

[Frattastan IV]

LMAOOOOOOOOO this is the most useless siren ever. It emboldens fascists and provokes non-fascists in the list and otherwise doesn't do shit. Fascists want to be listed on there; to them it's like an endorsement. Meanwhile it has done nothing to keep number of members entering listed regions at zero

The CDS is only in effect when a user leaves a Pacific feeder region, so a user can join an unlisted region and then later join one that is listed, and the CDS wouldn't send the telegram because it didn't depart a feeder region. It's amazing how the NPO thinks the CDS is a brilliant idea

If that's the case you should also accept that it's nowhere near as noteworthy to earn a Condemnation, no? An outstanding nation among the many that populate the world? "Shock and dismay"? Come on, it just sends telegrams.

OOC: I don't find this very funny. This isn't the first time the moderators have dropped the ball when it comes to typos/errors/whatevers. Thanks to your negligence, a player that tried to do something is left feeling like they failed, whilst knowing that their failure could have been avoided if others had bothered to read their proposal a little more closely.

You forgot the part where it'd have failed regardless because it's losing by eight thousand votes. Even among individual nations less than 20% supports it. This isn't an overwhelming victory that was turned because of a legal quibble. It's not even close to a 50-50 split that might be turned with a better draft and stronger campaigning. Typo or not, this was always going to be a failure because the nominee is undeserving and most people aren't receptive to your arguments.

[RiderSyl]

Oh look, another garbage proposal with no chance of passing made it to vote in the Security Council because Jocospor loves to waste his money. Lovely.

[Jocospor]

OOC: I don't find this very funny. This isn't the first time the moderators have dropped the ball when it comes to typos/errors/whatevers. Thanks to your negligence, a player that tried to do something is left feeling like they failed, whilst knowing that their failure could have been avoided if others had bothered to read their proposal a little more closely. I didn't pick up on this mistake (and, yes, it was very small) - but, likewise, I'm not a moderator and it's not my job to find the proposal's illegalities. And this isn't an honest mistake or anything like that: it's a typo. Everyone makes typos, so responding with something along the lines of "It's the author's responsibility as much as it's mine" holds no weight. Using an excuse like that implies that moderators have no greater responsibility.

I think the fact that you tried to laugh this one was off in pretty poor taste, really, and only perpetuates the divide that the average player sees between themselves and the moderators/those at the top end. Neither you nor Ransium have offered anything in the way of an apologetic tone; I might, were I you.

I made this a separate post because it's a separate issue and deserved its own.

Why should we feel sorry for the player? They obviously didn't put any effort into this, they didn't accept any improvements and they even posted how hilarious it is that everyone is saying its illegal. You're being a sissy about it, aw you being vewy sad youw wes-man doesn't get his authow badge?

OOC:

>any effort
>writes proposal

Great logic. Deflect from the issue all you want, but the problem still stands. The moderators are, yet again, at fault - and instead of admitting this, they behave in a seemingly juvenile way, too arrogant to admit their errors. Most disappointing.

[RiderSyl]

OOC:

>any effort
>writes proposal

... don't contradict.

Great logic. Deflect from the issue all you want, but the problem still stands. The moderators are, yet again, at fault - and instead of admitting this, they behave in a seemingly juvenile way, too arrogant to admit their errors. Most disappointing.

When did you become a moderator?

[Jocospor]

OOC:

>any effort
>writes proposal

... don't contradict.

Great logic. Deflect from the issue all you want, but the problem still stands. The moderators are, yet again, at fault - and instead of admitting this, they behave in a seemingly juvenile way, too arrogant to admit their errors. Most disappointing.

When did you become a moderator?

OOC:

a) You've clearly misunderstood me.
b) I'm not sure...you tell me...??

[Honeydewistania]

Why should we feel sorry for the player? They obviously didn't put any effort into this, they didn't accept any improvements and they even posted how hilarious it is that everyone is saying its illegal. You're being a sissy about it, aw you being vewy sad youw wes-man doesn't get his authow badge?

OOC:

>any effort
>writes proposal

Great logic. Deflect from the issue all you want, but the problem still stands. The moderators are, yet again, at fault - and instead of admitting this, they behave in a seemingly juvenile way, too arrogant to admit their errors. Most disappointing.

This slacker from slackertown just pulled some bs together and couldn't even bother to get the spelling in his operating clause right because he has the massive CCD salt. They just wrote some hot garbage. And are you not deflecting the problem? The problem is that CCD is getting shat on, but you're blaming the mods. Talk about arrogant.

[Caracasus]

The moderators likely assumed that the author would either check and proofread their work or get someone else to do it before submission.

They're moderators, not proofreaders. The person who dropped the ball was the person who submitted it with a typo. I'd also argue that the person who blew a load of TG stamps on a proposal with a typo in it dropped the ball too. Don't try to deflect.