[DEFEATED] Commend The North Pacific

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Pretty certain TWP was the first GCR to implement a security system such as you describe for TNP. Happened when TAO was Delegate and that’s more than a decade ago.

A major difference between TNP's Security Council and TWP's Guardians is that (to the best of my knowledge) the Guardians have always been appointed by and answerable to the Delegate. TNP's Security Council is selected by itself and the citizen legislature, and answerable to the citizen legislature.

TNP of course established its regional influence-based security council December 29, 2008.

Partly true, Guardians are appointed by the Delegate and are primarily accountable to the Delegate. However, they are also a bulwark against a rogue Delegate and have the safety of TWP as their secondary concern. TWP Guardians using regional influence have been around since early to mid 2007.

[Tinhampton]

This baby's in quorum - if it carries on like this, expect it to be AT VOTE between major update today and major update on Saturday 2nd March.

AS OF 2355 BST on MONDAY: Approvals: 79 out of 79 needed (Morover, Ransium, Albrook, Andromedian, Armagedda, Candensia, Abuz, Erinor, Dragons of Power, German Byzantium, Duckrep, Baja CaliforniaEmpire, The anime community, Imperial Engellessia, Karteria, Hurmflurg, Ualoi, Cykoslevinia, Ancient Free and Accepted Masons, Greater Slavicland, Stolkland, Pius Desurongcrandis, Montmorencia, New Nationale Einheit, Kohnhead, PeopittleLand, Rhodevus, Saint Arsenio, Smiley Bob, Sougra, Rovekovia, Sperio, Syndicalist Unions of Terron, Bubblekirby, Rybeck IX, Frankland, Essutakur, Haederil, Tylard, The Tomerlands, Indo States, Sovkarielvana, Zombiedolphins, Germanys Youth, Cardison, Rikara, Halcyon Nova, Lohengrambia, The Stalker, Naylanesia, De-lovely, Wildercrest, Vippertooth33, Vordia, Refuge Isle, Oubaograd, Lulus Roadhouse, Puldania, Torran, Xernon, New Guangxi Clique, Saint Ashlynn, Syrtis Major Planum, Makersaulache, The Vally Vuus, Garbanzony, Two Tumbleweeds, Aexnidaral, Terrorists69, Versylle, Mysterious Wonder, The Cactus Forest, HMS Aboukir, Europaterre, Aminerolia, Romaian, Epic Gamer Time, Trektopolis, Goncar)

[Battlion]

I expect this will be voted through, however in recent months some of the positions TNP has taken on resolutions has been a concern and as such I don’t want to condone them.

However, what’s highlighted in the resolution are strong arguments.

[Fedele]

To say that I'm a day late and a dollar short here would be putting it kindly but this is a bit of a let down for me, personally. As someone who has spent time in The North Pacific, I know that the inter-regional standard they set for due process and presumption of innocence as well as their bona fide work for the global good are more deserving of commendation than being couped multiple times, having a cult of personality, and being active.

This is a region with a rich history that has been deeply involved in inter-regional affairs and the commendation proposed seems unfortunately inward focused.

Sorry to sound like a downer. It isn't in my nature to kill a buzz.

[Scherzinger]

Anzu looked at the commendation. After reading it, she laughed hysterically.

"hahahahahahhaaahahaa.....no"

OOC though: I spent a considerable amount of time there, unfortunately, and theres not much to do and democracy is quite forced there, so much annoying vote for me shenanigans and just a boring region all in all. A region that is being commended because its so free is just disturbing, but i know this post will just be scrolled over since most of the WA and SC thinks backwards

[Malphe]

OOC though: I spent a considerable amount of time there, unfortunately, and theres not much to do and democracy is quite forced there, so much annoying vote for me shenanigans and just a boring region all in all. A region that is being commended because its so free is just disturbing, but i know this post will just be scrolled over since most of the WA and SC thinks backwards

I'm not sure I catch your point.

[Fedele]

One more thing: Commending them for being members of ADN and UDL in the past is quite strange and seems to lack historical perspective. It would make more sense to commend them for taking the difficult path of divorcing themselves from those organizations that infringed upon their sovereignty. Neither of those were easy experiences for TNP but they were necessary actions and the leadership there had the resolve needed.

[Frattastan IV]

so much annoying vote for me shenanigans

Isn't that the gist of democracy?

[Gagium]

Against. While I don't believe in commending any of the feeders or other large GCRs as a whole, I also don't believe we should be commending based upon satire or fictional religions (Plenty of other religions have one or both of those), being influential (Of course they are, they're a feeder), deciding to take part in R&D as a feeder in 2012 (So did plenty of other regions), having influential members within their region being able to guard their region (Again...Plenty of regions are capable of having influential members to defend their region), or even be able to recover from coups (They're a feeder, of course they'd be able to recover).

If this passes, I believe that it will eventually lead to the commendation of several other GCRs and feeders backed by themselves, and I don't believe this is a good precedent to set.

[Zemnaya Svoboda]

One more thing: Commending them for being members of ADN and UDL in the past is quite strange and seems to lack historical perspective. It would make more sense to commend them for taking the difficult path of divorcing themselves from those organizations that infringed upon their sovereignty. Neither of those were easy experiences for TNP but they were necessary actions and the leadership there had the resolve needed.

Just to be clear, as far as I know no region was ever a member of UDL and TNP never had any treaty or other formal arrangements with the organization.

[Unibot III]

One more thing: Commending them for being members of ADN and UDL in the past is quite strange and seems to lack historical perspective. It would make more sense to commend them for taking the difficult path of divorcing themselves from those organizations that infringed upon their sovereignty. Neither of those were easy experiences for TNP but they were necessary actions and the leadership there had the resolve needed.

Just to be clear, as far as I know no region was ever a member of UDL and TNP never had any treaty or other formal arrangements with the organization.

Also Scardino is being a bit disingenuous about ADN's history with TNP.

The NPO trying to divorce TNP from the ADN via a rogue delegate account - and ADN helping to liberate TNP, hardly counts as a difficult divorce.

[Bear Connors Paradiso]

Anzu looked at the commendation. After reading it, she laughed hysterically.

"hahahahahahhaaahahaa.....no"

OOC though: I spent a considerable amount of time there, unfortunately, and theres not much to do and democracy is quite forced there, so much annoying vote for me shenanigans and just a boring region all in all. A region that is being commended because its so free is just disturbing, but i know this post will just be scrolled over since most of the WA and SC thinks backwards

This is the reason I never joined. Not that I have bad will towards them, but I hope it doesn't pass.

[Killer Kitty]

Also Scardino is being a bit disingenuous about ADN's history with TNP.

And calling ALL one of the "most formidable" defender groups in NS history would also be disingenuous, since it was practically dead within a year.

[Routcher]

I voted no because I live by a simple philosophy: "If the word 'Pacific' is in the name, the region is no good".

[Malphe]

Just to be clear, as far as I know no region was ever a member of UDL and TNP never had any treaty or other formal arrangements with the organization.

Also Scardino is being a bit disingenuous about ADN's history with TNP.

The NPO trying to divorce TNP from the ADN via a rogue delegate account - and ADN helping to liberate TNP, hardly counts as a difficult divorce.

Unibot, there are already people who think you've got more to do with this proposal than Tin has admitted, and you actively defending the parts people think you insisted should be added in isn't helping your case. Go unibot somewhere else, this is helping nobody.

[Gracius Maximus]

Just to be clear, as far as I know no region was ever a member of UDL and TNP never had any treaty or other formal arrangements with the organization.

Also Scardino is being a bit disingenuous about ADN's history with TNP.

The NPO trying to divorce TNP from the ADN via a rogue delegate account - and ADN helping to liberate TNP, hardly counts as a difficult divorce.

Actually, the departure from ADN was completely legal and through a vote of the Cabinet, not the individual actions of a single Delegate. After the failures of IP and Cathyy in not keeping a UN-multi out of the Delegacy, TNP still didn’t rejoin the ADN.

[Zemnaya Svoboda]

While one can interpret The North Pacific's laws of the day as granting the leadership that discretion, the Minister of Justice instructed that the withdrawal be reversed, and a referendum of some kind held. It was a messy situation.

[Gracius Maximus]

While one can interpret The North Pacific's laws of the day as granting the leadership that discretion, the Minister of Justice instructed that the withdrawal be reversed, and a referendum of some kind held. It was a messy situation.

The instruction was framed as an opinion and the Delegate overruled the MoJ because the Cabinet had been consulted prior to the MoEA withdrawing TNP from the ADN and there were several legal issues with the ruling as presented.

[Zemnaya Svoboda]

Perhaps the most compelling part of what that Minister opined is the existence of a prior Cabinet decision that specified that a poll would be held before The North Pacific would leave the Alliance Defense Network.

[Gracius Maximus]

Perhaps the most compelling part of what that Minister opined is the existence of a prior Cabinet decision that specified that a poll would be held before The North Pacific would leave the Alliance Defense Network.

Things moved quickly. Perhaps someone else had better advice for the Delegate and Cabinet at the time...

[Unibot III]

Also Scardino is being a bit disingenuous about ADN's history with TNP.

The NPO trying to divorce TNP from the ADN via a rogue delegate account - and ADN helping to liberate TNP, hardly counts as a difficult divorce.

Unibot, there are already people who think you've got more to do with this proposal than Tin has admitted, and you actively defending the parts people think you insisted should be added in isn't helping your case. Go unibot somewhere else, this is helping nobody.

It’s not “my case” to help.

I’ve been a routine critic of TNP for years, I did not substantively contribute to the text nor do I care if TNP is commended. I don’t recall writing the part being cited, it certainly doesn’t sound like me - the clause ends by praising independentism for christ’s sake.

It’s not my job to control the irrational fears of others. If some people want to treat me as the bogeyman, that’s their prerogative and I couldn’t feel less of an obligation to coddle them. I’ve been very clear and exhaustive what my position on the North Pacific has been for about six years and it’s not “commend them!”

[Bycrest]

I vote against this commendation.

Recently, a faction of The North Pacific has made a grave transgression against my region by raiding it in hopes if would serve as "practice for defending a pile." This has lead to much confusion in the region of Winterfell and given me much unneeded stress in trying to get defenders to assist with this matter. As the delegate of the region, I was not informed ahead of time about this "operation" as they would call it and it took a full two days for anyone from TNP to contact me. In that time, my vice-delegate and I have tried recruiting other nations that aren't normally world assembly members to try to assist us with taking back our region. These nations were promptly kicked and banned, which lead to one The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord starting an investigation as to who raided my region and for what purpose. This lead to the region of Enadia falsely taking the credit for this raid, which is their only involvement in this case.

After more investigation from Swaglord and our allied region Forest, TNP's Minister of Defense finally reached out to me through telegram to explain the situation. Unfortunately, this does little to reverse the consequences of this raid. Sure, they may be able to put our regional information back to where it was, but there are actions on my end that now have to be reverse. The current delegate, who is a puppet of TNP's Home Affairs Minister, is currently calling him/herself the "Supreme Overlord" and has not apologized for his/her actions, even though the case has been more or less resolved. There is also the issue of this puppet openly mocking me after I made a statement reassure my fellow region-mates that we shouldn't have to worry about raiders.

This act alone, openly raiding a neutral and passive region for the sake of "practice" is a black mark on what I would assume to be a spotless record. Winterfell has had very little to no dealings with TNP in the past, to my knowledge, and now we will view them with contempt and mistrust. I will be making an announcement to the rest of my region that any and all world assembly members should vote against this commendation, as I know our allies in Forest are also changing their vote to against.

[Armaros]

I vote against this commendation.

Recently, a faction of The North Pacific has made a grave transgression against my region by raiding it in hopes if would serve as "practice for defending a pile." This has lead to much confusion in the region of Winterfell and given me much unneeded stress in trying to get defenders to assist with this matter. As the delegate of the region, I was not informed ahead of time about this "operation" as they would call it and it took a full two days for anyone from TNP to contact me. In that time, my vice-delegate and I have tried recruiting other nations that aren't normally world assembly members to try to assist us with taking back our region. These nations were promptly kicked and banned, which lead to one The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord starting an investigation as to who raided my region and for what purpose. This lead to the region of Enadia falsely taking the credit for this raid, which is their only involvement in this case.

After more investigation from Swaglord and our allied region Forest, TNP's Minister of Defense finally reached out to me through telegram to explain the situation. Unfortunately, this does little to reverse the consequences of this raid. Sure, they may be able to put our regional information back to where it was, but there are actions on my end that now have to be reverse. The current delegate, who is a puppet of TNP's Home Affairs Minister, is currently calling him/herself the "Supreme Overlord" and has not apologized for his/her actions, even though the case has been more or less resolved. There is also the issue of this puppet openly mocking me after I made a statement reassure my fellow region-mates that we shouldn't have to worry about raiders.

This act alone, openly raiding a neutral and passive region for the sake of "practice" is a black mark on what I would assume to be a spotless record. Winterfell has had very little to no dealings with TNP in the past, to my knowledge, and now we will view them with contempt and mistrust. I will be making an announcement to the rest of my region that any and all world assembly members should vote against this commendation, as I know our allies in Forest are also changing their vote to against.

How horrifying.

Ya know, raiding regions for practice is not uncommon. And about the "informed in advance": that's terrible OpSec, telling your target they're being targetted. This story makes no sense.

[Frattastan IV]

Ya know, raiding regions for practice is not uncommon. And about the "informed in advance": that's terrible OpSec, telling your target they're being targetted. This story makes no sense.

Probably. On the other hand, not wanting to commend someone who just attacked your region seems entirely reasonable.
At most it's the opposite (voting for despite that) that would be surprising and in need of a justification.

[Battlion]

Raiding for practice, should always be done appropriately, If this is true, which I deeply hope not, then this completely nullifies the commendation.

I’d like to see TNP come forward with their own explanation.