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[PASSED] Defending Rights of Sexual and Gender Minorities

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=457915

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[PASSED] Defending Rights of Sexual and Gender Minorities

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:54 pm
by Maowi
I have written a draft defending the civil and political rights of sexual and gender minorities, I'd welcome any feedback, advice and constructive criticisms. Thanks :)

Protecting the Civil Rights of Sexual and Gender Minorities

Category: Civil Rights
Strength: Significant

HOLDING that the sexuality or gender of an individual does not make them inferior or superior to another individual of a differing sexuality or gender,

REASONING that individuals of all sexualities and genders should be granted the same civil and political rights, and

NOTING the lack of General Assembly legislation which specifically clarifies the civil and political rights of sexual and gender minorities,

The World Assembly:

A) DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, "civil marriage" as a legally recognised union of two or more people as partners in a personal relationship, solemnised as a civil contract with or without religious ceremony.

B) FURTHER DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, "marriage rights" as privileges granted to an individual solely or in part as a consequence of their civil marriage.

Hereby,

    1. REQUIRES all member nations which allow civil marriages between individuals of a certain sexuality or gender to allow civil marriages between individuals of all sexualities and genders, subject to previously passed extant World Assembly resolutions.
    2. ORDERS all member nations to provide the same civil marriage services for individuals of all sexualities and genders.
    3. COMPELS all member nations to grant the same marriage rights to civilly married individuals of all sexualities and genders.
    4. REQUIRES all member nations to apply legislation of the same scope and effect for the termination of civil marriages between individuals of all sexualities and genders.

  2. MANDATES that every member nation must grant exactly the same rights, powers, permissions and services to individuals of all sexualities and genders, subject to exactly the same qualifying conditions. Such conditions may not include the sexuality or gender of the individual(s) concerned.

  3. ORDERS all member nations to impose exactly the same sanctions or punishments on all organisations which deny any right, power, permission or service to an individual based on their sexuality or gender, as the sanctions or punishments imposed on organisations discriminating on the basis of other arbitrary, reductive criteria (such as, but not limited to, ethnicity, age and religion).
  4. MANDATES that all member nations must allow each of their citizens to choose or change their own gender, and that member nations must officially recognise and accept the individual's chosen gender.
  5. CLARIFIES that religious organizations and their internal discrimination do not fall under this resolution, and should be addressed by future legislation.
Protecting the Civil Rights of Sexual and Gender Minorities

Category: Civil Rights
Strength: Significant

HOLDING that the sexuality or gender of an individual does not make them inferior or superior to another individual of a differing sexuality or gender,

REASONING that individuals of all sexualities and genders should be granted the same civil and political rights, and

NOTING the lack of General Assembly legislation which specifically clarifies the civil and political rights of sexual and gender minorities,

The World Assembly:

A) DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, "civil marriage" as a legally recognised union of two or more people as partners in a personal relationship, solemnised as a civil contract with or without religious ceremony.

B) FURTHER DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, "marriage rights" as privileges granted to an individual solely or in part as a consequence of their civil marriage.

Hereby,

    1. REQUIRES all member nations which allow civil marriages between individuals of a certain sexuality or gender to allow civil marriages between individuals of all sexualities and genders, subject to previously passed extant World Assembly resolutions.
    2. ORDERS all member nations to provide the same civil marriage services for individuals of all sexualities and genders.
    3. COMPELS all member nations to grant the same marriage rights to civilly married individuals of all sexualities and genders.
    4. REQUIRES all member nations to apply legislation of the same scope and effect for the termination of civil marriages between individuals of all sexualities and genders.

  2. MANDATES that every member nation must grant exactly the same rights, powers, permissions and services to individuals of all sexualities and genders, subject to exactly the same qualifying conditions. Such conditions may not include the sexuality or gender of the individual(s) concerned.

  3. ORDERS all member nations to impose exactly the same sanctions or punishments on all organisations which deny any right, power, permission or service to an individual based on their sexuality or gender, as the sanctions or punishments imposed on organisations discriminating on the basis of other arbitrary, reductive criteria (such as, but not limited to, ethnicity, age and religion).

  4. CLARIFIES that religious organizations and their internal discrimination do not fall under this resolution, and should be addressed by future legislation.
Protecting the Civil Rights of Sexual and Gender Minorities

Category: Civil Rights
Strength: Significant

HOLDING that the sexuality or gender of an individual does not make them inferior or superior to another individual of a differing sexuality or gender,

REASONING that individuals of all sexualities and genders should be granted the same civil and political rights, and

NOTING the lack of General Assembly legislation which specifically clarifies the civil and political rights of sexual and gender minorities,

The World Assembly:

A) DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, "civil marriage" as a legally recognised union of two or more people as partners in a personal relationship, solemnised as a civil contract with or without religious ceremony.

B) FURTHER DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, "marriage rights" as privileges granted to an individual solely or in part as a consequence of their civil marriage

Hereby

    1. REQUIRES all member nations which allow civil marriages between heterosexual individuals to also allow civil marriages between individuals of all sexualities and genders, subject to previously passed extant World Assembly resolutions.
    2. ORDERS all member nations to provide the same civil marriage services for individuals of all sexualities and genders.
    3. COMPELS all member nations to grant the same marriage rights to civilly married individuals of all sexualities and genders.
    4. REQUIRES all member nations to apply legislation of the same scope and effect for the termination of civil marriages between individuals of all sexualities and genders.

  2. MANDATES that every member nation must grant exactly the same rights, powers, permissions and services to individuals of all sexualities and genders, subject to exactly the same qualifying conditions. Such conditions may not include the sexuality or gender of the individual(s) concerned.

  3. ORDERS all member nations to impose exactly the same sanctions or punishments on all organisations which deny any right, power, permission or service to an individual based on their sexuality or gender, as the sanctions or punishments imposed on organisations discriminating on the basis of other arbitrarily assigned human features (such as, but not limited to, ethnicity, sex, age and religion).

  4. CLARIFIES that all religious organisations are exempt from the sanctions and punishments imposed in part 3, but only where a majority of the religion's followers believe in the immorality of marriage between individuals of a certain gender or sexuality (because of religion and not their sociocultural values), subject to future World Assembly resolutions.
Protecting the Civil Rights of Sexual Minorities

Category: Civil Rights
Strength: Significant

HOLDING that the sexual orientation of an individual does not make them inferior or superior to another individual of a differing sexual orientation,

REASONING that individuals of all sexual orientations should be granted the same civil and political rights, and

NOTING the lack of General Assembly legislation which specifically clarifies the civil and political rights of sexual minorities,

The World Assembly:

A) DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, "civil marriage" as a legally recognised union of two or more people as partners in a personal relationship, solemnised as a civil contract with or without religious ceremony.

B) FURTHER DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, "marriage rights" as privileges granted to an individual solely or in part as a consequence of their civil marriage

C) FURTHER DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, a "non-sexually conforming individual" as a person who is neither male and sexually attracted solely to females, nor female and sexually attracted solely to males.

Hereby

    1. REQUIRES all member nations which allow civil marriages between heterosexual individuals to allow civil marriages between non-sexually conforming individuals, and vice versa, subject to exactly the same qualifying conditions. Such conditions may not include the sexual orientation of the individuals concerned.
    2. REQUIRES all member nations to provide exactly the same civil marriage services for heterosexual individuals as for non-sexually conforming individuals, or none at all for both groups.
    3. COMPELS all member nations to grant to all non-sexually conforming, civilly married individuals exactly the same marriage rights granted to heterosexual, civilly married individuals.
    4. COMPELS all member nations to implement legislation regarding the termination of non-sexually conforming civil marriages of the same scope and effect as the legislation regarding the termination of heterosexual civil marriages.

  2. MANDATES that every member nation must grant exactly the same rights, powers, permissions and services which are granted to heterosexual individuals in that nation to all non-sexually conforming individuals, subject to exactly the same qualifying conditions under which said rights, powers, permissions and services are granted to heterosexual individuals. Such conditions may not include the sexual orientation of the individual(s) concerned.

  3. ORDERS all member nations to impose exactly the same sanctions or punishments on all organisations which deny any right, power permission or service to an individual solely or partly on the basis of their sexual orientation, as the sanctions or punishments imposed on organisations discriminating on the basis of any other arbitrarily assigned human feature (such as, but not limited to, ethnicity, gender, age or religion).

  4. CLARIFIES that all religious organisations are exempt from the sanctions and punishments imposed in part 3, but only where granting a certain right, power, permission or service to an individual of a certain sexual orientation is stated to be morally wrong in the religion's holy scripture, or a corresponding equivalent, subject to future General Assembly resolutions.
Protecting the Civil Rights of Sexual Minorities

Category: Civil Rights
Strength: Significant

HOLDING that the sexual orientation of an individual does not make them inferior or superior to another individual of a differing sexual orientation,

REASONING that individuals of all sexual orientations should be granted the same civil and political rights, and

NOTING the lack of General Assembly legislation which specifically clarifies the civil and political rights of sexual minorities,

The World Assembly:

A) DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, "civil marriage" as a legally recognised union of two or more people as partners in a personal relationship, solemnised as a civil contract with or without religious ceremony.

B) FURTHER DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, "marriage rights" as privileges granted to an individual solely or in part as a consequence of their civil marriage

C) FURTHER DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, a "non-sexually conforming individual" as a person who is neither male and sexually attracted solely to females, nor female and sexually attracted solely to males.

Hereby

    1. REQUIRES all member nations which allow civil marriages between heterosexual individuals to allow civil marriages between non-sexually conforming individuals, and vice versa, subject to exactly the same conditions. Such conditions may not, of course, include the sexual orientation of the individuals concerned.
    2. REQUIRES all member nations which provide civil marriage services for heterosexual individuals to provide those civil marriage services for non-sexually conforming individuals, and vice versa.
    3. COMPELS all member nations to grant to all non-sexually conforming, civilly married individuals exactly the same marriage rights granted to heterosexual, civilly married individuals.
    4. COMPELS all member nations to implement legislation regarding the termination of non-sexually conforming civil marriages of the same scope and effect as the legislation regarding the termination of heterosexual civil marriages.

  2. MANDATES that every member nation must grant exactly the same rights, powers, permissions and services which are granted to heterosexual individuals in that nation to all non-sexually conforming individuals, subject to exactly the same qualifying conditions under which said rights, powers, permissions and services are granted to heterosexual individuals. Such conditions may not include the sexual orientation of the individual(s) concerned.

  3. ORDERS all member nations to impose exactly the same sanctions or punishments on all organisations which set, formally or otherwise, different qualifying conditions for the granting of any right, power, permission or service to heterosexual individuals and to non-sexually conforming individuals, as the sanctions or punishments imposed on organisations discriminating on the basis of any other arbitrarily assigned human feature (such as, but not limited to, ethnicity, gender, age or religion).

  4. CLARIFIES that all religious organisations are exempt from the sanctions and punishments imposed in part 3, but only where granting a certain right, power, permission or service to a non-sexually conforming individual is explicitly stated to be morally wrong in the religion's holy scripture, or a corresponding equivalent.
Protecting the Civil and Political Rights of Homosexual Couples

Category: Civil Rights
Strength: Significant

HOLDING that the sexual orientation of an individual does not make them inferior or superior to another individual of a differing sexual orientation,

REASONING that homosexual individuals should therefore be granted the same civil and political rights as heterosexual individuals, and

NOTING the lack of General Assembly legislation which specifically clarifies the civil and political rights of homosexual individuals,

The World Assembly

A) DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, "civil marriage" as a legally recognised union of two or more people as partners in a personal relationship, solemnised as a civil contract without religious ceremony.

B) FURTHER DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, "marriage rights" as privileges granted to an individual solely or in part as a consequence of their civil marriage.

C) FURTHER DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, a "homosexual individual" as a person who is sexually attracted to a person of the same sex as them.

Hereby:

    1. REQUIRES all member nations which allow civil marriages between two people of opposite sex to allow civil marriages between two people of the same sex, subject to the same conditions under which civil marriage is allowed to all opposite-sex couples. Such conditions may not, of course, include the sexual orientation of the individuals concerned.
    2. REQUIRES all member nations which provide civil marriage services for two people of opposite sex to provide civil marriage services for two people of the same sex.
    3. COMPELS all member nations to grant to all homosexual, civilly married individuals every marriage right granted to opposite-sex, civilly married individuals, and no more.
    4. COMPELS all member nations to implement legislation regarding the termination of same-sex civil marriages of the same scope and effect as the legislation regarding the termination of opposite-sex civil marriages.
  2. MANDATES that all homosexual individuals in all member nations must be granted the right to partake in any political activity in which a heterosexual individual has the right to partake in that member nation, subject to the same conditions under which said right is granted to heterosexual individuals (these conditions may not include the individual's sexual orientation). Such political activities may include (but are not limited to):
    1. Voting in any sort of election
    2. Taking up any sort of political office
  3. RULES that each member nation must provide exactly the same government-run services - excluding those only applicable to heterosexual individuals, to which a suitable equivalent service must be provided - to homosexual individuals as it does to heterosexual individuals, subject to the same conditions, for the same price and of the same quality as these services are provided to heterosexual individuals (these conditions may not include the individual's sexual orientation). Such services may include (but are not limited to):
    1. Healthcare services
    2. Social services
  4. REQUIRES each member nation to provide to homosexual individuals exactly the same financial services as it provides to heterosexual individuals, subject to the same conditions under which said services are provided to heterosexual individuals (these conditions may not include the individual's sexual orientation). An example of one such financial service is a financial benefit of any sort.
  5. ORDERS all member nations to legally permit all homosexual individuals to act, think, feel and speak as they wish, subject to the same conditions to which the actions, thoughts, feelings and speech of heterosexual individuals are subject. Such conditions may not, of course, include the individual's sexual orientation.
2nd draft (thanks to Kenmoria for helping me improve on the 1st draft)

Protecting the Civil and Political Rights of Homosexual Couples

Category: Civil Rights
Strength: Significant

HOLDING that the sexual orientation of an individual does not make them inferior or superior to another individual of a differing sexual orientation,

REASONING that homosexual individuals should therefore be granted the same civil and political rights as heterosexual individuals, and

NOTING the lack of General Assembly legislation which specifically clarifies the civil and political rights of homosexual individuals,

The World Assembly

A) DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, "civil marriage" as a legally recognised union of two or more people as partners in a personal relationship, solemnised as a civil contract without religious ceremony.

B) FURTHER DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, "marriage rights" as privileges granted to an individual solely or in part as a consequence of their civil marriage with another person as partners in a personal relationship.

C) FURTHER DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, a "homosexual individual" as a person who is sexually attracted to a person of the same sex as them.

Hereby:

    1. REQUIRES all member nations which allow civil marriages between two people of opposite sex to allow civil marriages between two people of the same sex.
    2. COMMANDS all such member nations to allow civil marriage to all same-sex couples, subject to the same conditions under which civil marriage is allowed to all opposite-sex couples. Such conditions may not, of course, include the sexual orientation of the individuals concerned.
    3. REQUIRES all member nations which provide civil marriage services for two people of opposite sex to provide civil marriage services for two people of the same sex.
    4. COMPELS all member nations to grant to all same-sex spouses every marriage right granted to opposite-sex spouses, and no more marriage rights than those.
    5. COMPELS all member nations to implement legislation regarding the termination of same-sex civil marriages of the same scope and effect as the legislation regarding the termination of opposite-sex civil marriages.
    1. MANDATES that no homosexual individual in any member nation be denied the right to partake in any political activity in which a heterosexual individual has the right to partake in that member nation, solely or in part on the basis of their sexual orientation. Such political activities may include (but are not limited to):
      1. Voting in any sort of election
      2. Taking up any sort of political office
    2. ORDERS that all homosexual individuals must be granted the right stated in 2. a. subject to the same conditions under which the right stated in 2. a. is granted to heterosexual individuals. Such conditions may not, of course, include the individual's sexual orientation.
    1. RULES that each member nation must provide all the same government-run services - excluding those only applicable to heterosexual individuals - to homosexual individuals as it does to heterosexual individuals, and no more such services than those. Such services may include (but are not limited to):
      1. Healthcare services
      2. Social services
    2. COMPELS all member nations to provide such services to all homosexual individuals for the same price, subject to the same conditions and of the same quality as such services are provided to all heterosexual individuals. Such conditions may not, of course, include the individual's sexual orientation.
    1. REQUIRES each member nation to provide to homosexual individuals all the same financial services as it provides to heterosexual individuals, and no more such services than those. An example of one such financial service is a financial benefit of any sort.
    2. COMPELS all member nations to provide such financial services to all homosexual individuals subject to the same conditions as such financial services are provided to all heterosexual individuals. Such conditions may not, of course, include the individual's sexual orientation.
    1. ORDERS all member nations to legally permit all homosexual individuals to act, think, feel and speak as they wish, subject to the same conditions to which the actions, thoughts, feelings and speech of heterosexual individuals are subject. Such conditions may not, of course, include the individual's sexual orientation.
Protecting the Civil and Political Rights of Homosexual People

Category: Civil Rights
Strength: Significant

HOLDING that the sexual orientation of an individual does not make them inferior or superior to another individual of a differing sexual orientation,

REASONING that homosexual individuals should therefore be granted the same civil and political rights as heterosexual individuals, and

NOTING the lack of General Assembly legislation which specifically clarifies the civil and political rights of homosexual individuals,

The World Assembly

A) DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, "civil marriage" as a legally recognised union of two people as partners in a personal relationship, solemnised as a civil contract without religious ceremony.

B) FURTHER DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, "marriage rights" as privileges granted to an individual solely or in part as a consequence of their legally recognised union with another person as partners in a personal relationship.

C) FURTHER DEFINES, for the purposes of this resolution, a "homosexual individual" as a person who is sexually attracted to a person of the same sex as them, or who is sexually attracted to people of both sexes.

Hereby:

    1. REQUIRES all member nations which allow civil marriages between two people of opposite sex to allow civil marriages between two people of the same sex.
    2. COMMANDS all such member nations to allow civil marriage to all same-sex couples, subject to the same conditions under which civil marriage is allowed to all opposite-sex couples. Such conditions may not, of course, include the sexual orientation of the individuals concerned.
    3. REQUIRES all member nations which provide civil marriage services for two people of opposite sex to provide civil marriage services for two people of the same sex.
    4. COMPELS all member nations to grant to all same-sex spouses every marriage right granted to opposite-sex spouses, and no more marriage rights than those.
    5. COMPELS all member nations to implement the same legislation, and no more, regarding the termination of same-sex civil marriages, as the legislation regarding the termination of opposite-sex civil marriages.
    1. MANDATES that no homosexual individual in any member nation be denied the right to partake in any political activity in which a heterosexual individual has the right to partake in that member nation, solely or in part on the basis of their sexual orientation. Such political activities may include (but are not limited to):
      1. Voting in any sort of election
      2. Taking up any sort of political office
    2. ORDERS that all homosexual individuals must be granted the right stated in 2. a. subject to the same conditions under which the right stated in 2. a. is granted to heterosexual individuals. Such conditions may not, of course, include the individual's sexual orientation.
    1. RULES that each member nation must provide all the same government-run services to homosexual individuals as it does to heterosexual individuals, and no more such services than those. Such services may include (but are not limited to):
      1. Healthcare services
      2. Social services
    2. COMPELS all member nations to provide such services to all homosexual individuals for the same price, subject to the same conditions and at the same quality as such services are provided to all heterosexual individuals. Such conditions may not, of course, include the individual's sexual orientation.
    1. REQUIRES each member nation to provide to homosexual individuals all the same financial services as it provides to heterosexual individuals, and no more such services than those. An example of one such financial service is a financial benefit of any sort.
    2. COMPELS all member nations to provide such financial services to all homosexual individuals subject to the same conditions as such financial services are provided to all heterosexual individuals. Such conditions may not, of course, include the individual's sexual orientation.
    1. ORDERS all member nations to legally permit all homosexual individuals to act, think, feel and speak as they wish, subject to the same conditions to which the actions, thoughts, feelings and speech of heterosexual individuals are subject. Such conditions may not, of course, include the individual's sexual orientation.

I'm not really sure about part 5, any help on that would be very much appreciated.
This is in pre-drafting stages as I want to see how much support it has, but my idea is to make it compulsory for states to wed any homosexual couples that want to (unless heterosexual marriage is illegal in that nation too), and to grant them the same marriage rights as heterosexual couples in that state. The proposal wouldn't force religious institutions which are currently against homosexual marriage to marry homosexual couples.

So, please let me know whether or not you support it and if you have any useful advice on how to go about drafting it that would be welcome :)
Thanks

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:04 pm
by Kenmoria
(OOC: This seems like it would be covered by GA #35, Charter of Civil Rights, which bans all forms of discrimination except for that which occurs due to ‘compelling practical purposes’. While you could make a proposal that specifically covers marriage in order to provide more detail and close a potential loophole regarding what constitutes a practical purpose, this would have to face a lot of opposition on the CoCR front.

Also, it is generally a good idea to start with a draft, rather than an ideas thread - though well done for not just submitting a proposal straight away, as drafting is crucial to a good piece of legislation.)

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:14 pm
by Maowi
Yes, I have been made aware of the CoCR and the intention of this idea was to be more specific and prevent anyone wriggling out of it, but I know a lot of people will argue against that. But thanks for helping :)

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:29 pm
by Maowi
Already, just going down the list of WA nations alphabetically, I found a nation where homosexuality is banned (naming no names ...)

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:34 pm
by Panther
Maowi wrote:Already, just going down the list of WA nations alphabetically, I found a nation where homosexuality is banned (naming no names ...)


I don't know whether WA resolutions can install policies on your nation, but I do know that they only affect present WA nations. If you join after a resolution has passed, you won't be affected.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:38 pm
by Maowi
Oh ok thanks, I didn't know that. But surely then that would be a premise to argue on re-submitting existing proposals? I don't know about this, I shall do my research

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:42 pm
by Womb of Nations
Though I've limited understanding of the WA, my impression is that the purpose is not to actually micromanage the nations that belong. For instance, each resolution that passes seems to only approximate actual changes for WA nation's stats, and in quite limited ways.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:44 pm
by Borovan3
WA resolutions DO NOT affect issue choice effects only categories stats

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:44 pm
by The Legion of Mankind
Maowi wrote:Already, just going down the list of WA nations alphabetically, I found a nation where homosexuality is banned (naming no names ...)

It’s banned in mine.....

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:47 pm
by Womb of Nations
Borovan3 wrote:WA resolutions DO NOT affect issue choice effects only categories stats


By that, do you mean they only affect the Three Freedoms which manage a nation's category?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:48 pm
by Maowi
Borovan3 wrote:WA resolutions DO NOT affect issue choice effects only categories stats

Ok, thanks for clearing that up

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:48 pm
by United Massachusetts
The proposal wouldn't force religious institutions which are currently against homosexual marriage to marry homosexual couples.

Would such a resolution explicitly prohibit states from compelling religious institutions to marry same-sex couples?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:51 pm
by Borovan3
Womb of Nations wrote:
Borovan3 wrote:WA resolutions DO NOT affect issue choice effects only categories stats


By that, do you mean they only affect the Three Freedoms which manage a nation's category?

Correct

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:52 pm
by Maowi
United Massachusetts wrote:
The proposal wouldn't force religious institutions which are currently against homosexual marriage to marry homosexual couples.

Would such a resolution explicitly prohibit states from compelling religious institutions to marry same-sex couples?

I wasn't thinking that it should prohibit states from doing that as I think that would be a separate issue more concerned with state interference in religion, rather than simply civil rights

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:44 am
by Maowi
My argument against this (currently hypothetical) proposal being already covered by the CoCR is that the CoCR still leaves space for nations to use a loophole of allowing same-sex civil partnerships instead of marriage, and then although they have different rights as a result of this, arguing that the difference in rights arises not from the sexuality of the couple but from the type of union.
Also, it is perfectly legal to propose legislation which clarifies the GA's laws on a specific topic which has only been vaguely legislated upon.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:45 am
by Ardortia
Where is the compelling practical purpose?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:49 am
by Serailia
Ardortia wrote:Where is the compelling practical purpose?


Legal status, mostly.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:50 am
by Hatterleigh
No. Marriage is often times a religious affair and forcing a culture to marry homosexuals even if it defies their religion seems really insensitive. There is such things as civil unions though. Also how come countries with marriage in general being illegal don't have to follow this rule? Aren't they being unfair to everyone in that case? Isn't not allowing marriage in general a violation of religious rights?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:53 am
by Kenmoria
Maowi wrote:My argument against this (currently hypothetical) proposal being already covered by the CoCR is that the CoCR still leaves space for nations to use a loophole of allowing same-sex civil partnerships instead of marriage, and then although they have different rights as a result of this, arguing that the difference in rights arises not from the sexuality of the couple but from the type of union.
Also, it is perfectly legal to propose legislation which clarifies the GA's laws on a specific topic which has only been vaguely legislated upon.

(OOC: I agree that makes sense, as member nations have a lot of leeway with CoCR due to the presence of only one example as what constitutes ‘compelling’ and the fact that it is quite vague in general. As for the duplication rule, what content are you going to be adding that zooms in on marriage equality? I would certainly support some robust protections against homophobic discrimination in general.)

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:56 am
by Maowi
Hatterleigh wrote:No. Marriage is often times a religious affair and forcing a culture to marry homosexuals even if it defies their religion seems really insensitive. There is such things as civil unions though. Also how come countries with marriage in general being illegal don't have to follow this rule? Aren't they being unfair to everyone in that case? Isn't not allowing marriage in general a violation of religious rights?


The intention of this idea is to eliminate discrimination against homosexuals. I did not intend to come up with a proposal about religion and how a government can control religious rights in their states. The reason I made an exception on countries with marriage in general being illegal is that if I didn't, homosexuals would be favoured over heterosexuals - which is evidently unfair. I believe that trying to ban a nation from banning marriage in general would have to be addressed in a completely separate proposal with a different chain of reasoning and justification.

As for marriage being a religious affair, I specifically mentioned that this proposal would only enforce civil marriage of homosexuals. If civil marriage of heterosexuals is illegal or not offered by the government (only religious marriages legal) then the civil marriage of homosexuals would also be illegal/not mandatory for the government to offer. Maybe I should have made that clearer.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:06 am
by Maowi
Kenmoria wrote:As for the duplication rule, what content are you going to be adding that zooms in on marriage equality?

I'm not sure if I have understood exactly what you are asking.
I think the content I want to add that "zooms in" on marriage equality is what I wrote in the initial message of this thread and also in my reply to Hatterleigh just now. I think I might post a draft soon to clarify this.

Kenmoria wrote:I would certainly support some robust protections against homophobic discrimination in general.

Do you mean you think it would be a good idea for me to include measures against homophobic discrimination in general in this proposal, or were you must stating support of a separate proposal which would protect homosexuals against discrimination?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:36 pm
by Kenmoria
(OOC:
Maowi wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:As for the duplication rule, what content are you going to be adding that zooms in on marriage equality?

I'm not sure if I have understood exactly what you are asking.
I think the content I want to add that "zooms in" on marriage equality is what I wrote in the initial message of this thread and also in my reply to Hatterleigh just now. I think I might post a draft soon to clarify this.

I was making reference to the fact that duplication of existing legislation, such as CoCR, is only legal if additional content is provided in the proposal, by ‘zooming in’ on that policy area. Even though there is a loophole in terms of vagueness over the discrimination law, I don’t think it would be allowable to just ban prohibitions on homosexual marriage, you have to do something else as well.

Kenmoria wrote:I would certainly support some robust protections against homophobic discrimination in general.

Do you mean you think it would be a good idea for me to include measures against homophobic discrimination in general in this proposal, or were you must stating support of a separate proposal which would protect homosexuals against discrimination?

That was just me giving an example of additional legislation you could include to make sure you don’t fall afoul of the duplication rule, in your current proposal. On that topic, I recommend writing one soon, as it is quite hard to debate a proposal that doesn’t yet exist.)

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:40 pm
by Hatterleigh
Maowi wrote:
Hatterleigh wrote:No. Marriage is often times a religious affair and forcing a culture to marry homosexuals even if it defies their religion seems really insensitive. There is such things as civil unions though. Also how come countries with marriage in general being illegal don't have to follow this rule? Aren't they being unfair to everyone in that case? Isn't not allowing marriage in general a violation of religious rights?


The intention of this idea is to eliminate discrimination against homosexuals. I did not intend to come up with a proposal about religion and how a government can control religious rights in their states. The reason I made an exception on countries with marriage in general being illegal is that if I didn't, homosexuals would be favoured over heterosexuals - which is evidently unfair. I believe that trying to ban a nation from banning marriage in general would have to be addressed in a completely separate proposal with a different chain of reasoning and justification.

As for marriage being a religious affair, I specifically mentioned that this proposal would only enforce civil marriage of homosexuals. If civil marriage of heterosexuals is illegal or not offered by the government (only religious marriages legal) then the civil marriage of homosexuals would also be illegal/not mandatory for the government to offer. Maybe I should have made that clearer.

What defines civil marriage? Would a civil union with all the same rights and privileges as marriage and a different title count as civil marriage?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:39 pm
by Maowi
I have been coming up with a draft in which I specify the definition of a civil marriage "for the purposes of this resolution", so yes, a 'civil marriage' called a civil union would stil count as a civil marriage regarding the proposal

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:19 pm
by Tinfect
OOC:
Good idea, bad execution, what this draft really needs is a ban on Heterosexual marriage.
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