[PASSED] Condemn The Pacific

[Yokiria]

It is completely irrational to respond with immediate condemnation when the demands of the aggrieved parties are immediately and completely met, as has been done in the current situation.

It is bullying to follow up a demand, which was met, with continued badgering and insult. 'Give us your milk money today and we can all move forward' is followed by 'give us your lunch money today and tomorrow and forever'.

"Immediately and completely met" is certainly an inaccurate description, as those in Osiris and Lazarus can attest to, and considering that the rest of your point hinges on that statement, I believe that's all I need to say in reply.

[Pierconium]

It is completely irrational to respond with immediate condemnation when the demands of the aggrieved parties are immediately and completely met, as has been done in the current situation.

It is bullying to follow up a demand, which was met, with continued badgering and insult. 'Give us your milk money today and we can all move forward' is followed by 'give us your lunch money today and tomorrow and forever'.

"Immediately and completely met" is certainly an inaccurate description, as those in Osiris and Lazarus can attest to, and considering that the rest of your point hinges on that statement, I believe that's all I need to say in reply.

What points raised were not met?

[Yokiria]

"Immediately and completely met" is certainly an inaccurate description, as those in Osiris and Lazarus can attest to, and considering that the rest of your point hinges on that statement, I believe that's all I need to say in reply.

What points raised were not met?

Points raised and not immediately and completely met were the ban of Pergamon to satisfy Osiris, and the removal of Svej to satisfy Lazarus. Being overly technical about the language of the points raised could indicate that neither of those demands are met at present, but I believe that the NPO has done enough to meet the demands in reality.

The wars must go on, though, at least for a little while. The Condemnation must go through, as well, so that the NPO cannot so easily deny what took place.

[Pierconium]

What points raised were not met?

Points raised and not immediately and completely met were the ban of Pergamon to satisfy Osiris, and the removal of Svej to satisfy Lazarus. Being overly technical about the language of the points raised could indicate that neither of those demands are met at present, but I believe that the NPO has done enough to meet the demands in reality.

The wars must go on, though, at least for a little while. The Condemnation must go through, as well, so that the NPO cannot so easily deny what took place.

I only operate in realpolitik here, so ‘in reality’ equates to immediate and complete in my worldview.

As to the rest, I worked damn hard to have the last Condemnation lifted but before that took place I also cultivated a culture of acceptance and defiance and we wore it as a badge of honour. ‘Look at what the world thinks of us, and we don’t give a damn.’ It is that mentality that I was hoping you all could avoid this time around. History repeats, the cycle begins anew.

[Yokiria]

I only operate in realpolitik here, so ‘in reality’ equates to immediate and complete in my worldview.

I will concede "immediate" if we are operating in "realpolitik", but even operating as such, you cannot call it immediate. If it was immediate, you would have spared some trouble with The North Pacific regarding the Svej demand not being met in Lazarus.

As to the rest, I worked damn hard to have the last Condemnation lifted but before that took place I also cultivated a culture of acceptance and defiance and we wore it as a badge of honour. ‘Look at what the world thinks of us, and we don’t give a damn.’ It is that mentality that I was hoping you all could avoid this time around. History repeats, the cycle begins anew.

The Condemnation was unavoidable the moment that the logs were leaked.

[Prydania]

I worked damn hard to have the last Condemnation lifted but before that took place I also cultivated a culture of acceptance and defiance and we wore it as a badge of honour. ‘Look at what the world thinks of us, and we don’t give a damn.’ It is that mentality that I was hoping you all could avoid this time around. History repeats, the cycle begins anew.

Actions have consequences. Enjoy yours.

[Pierconium]

I worked damn hard to have the last Condemnation lifted but before that took place I also cultivated a culture of acceptance and defiance and we wore it as a badge of honour. ‘Look at what the world thinks of us, and we don’t give a damn.’ It is that mentality that I was hoping you all could avoid this time around. History repeats, the cycle begins anew.

Actions have consequences. Enjoy yours.

You talking to me about current consequences is laughable. I operate on a scale of years here. Immediate unpleasantness because of now removed nations isn’t a personal concern.

[Prydania]

Actions have consequences. Enjoy yours.

You talking to me about current consequences is laughable. I operate on a scale of years here. Immediate unpleasantness because of now removed nations isn’t a personal concern.

*shrug*
When someone kicks up a storm about a condemnation and then goes “I don’t really care it’s not a concern” well...I’m inclined to believe that they’re not being entirely honest.

As for operating on a “scale of years”? Ok. Whatever you have to throw out to try and minimize the impact of your region’s actions. I doubt anyone else here will be moved by it.

[Pierconium]

You talking to me about current consequences is laughable. I operate on a scale of years here. Immediate unpleasantness because of now removed nations isn’t a personal concern.

*shrug*
When someone kicks up a storm about a condemnation and then goes “I don’t really care it’s not a concern” well...I’m inclined to believe that they’re not being entirely honest.

As for operating on a “scale of years”? Ok. Whatever you have to throw out to try and minimize the impact of your region’s actions. I doubt anyone else here will be moved by it.

If you say so. I do not believe I said I didn’t care, in fact I was very clear that I have the opposite opinion on it. *shrug*

I’ve been back on active duty for less than 24 hours and have already accomplished quite a bit. It’s amazing how little people are moved...

[Kurnugia]

Points raised and not immediately and completely met were the ban of Pergamon to satisfy Osiris, and the removal of Svej to satisfy Lazarus. Being overly technical about the language of the points raised could indicate that neither of those demands are met at present, but I believe that the NPO has done enough to meet the demands in reality.

The wars must go on, though, at least for a little while. The Condemnation must go through, as well, so that the NPO cannot so easily deny what took place.

I only operate in realpolitik here, so ‘in reality’ equates to immediate and complete in my worldview.

As to the rest, I worked damn hard to have the last Condemnation lifted but before that took place I also cultivated a culture of acceptance and defiance and we wore it as a badge of honour. ‘Look at what the world thinks of us, and we don’t give a damn.’ It is that mentality that I was hoping you all could avoid this time around. History repeats, the cycle begins anew.

I find the last bit most intriguing. "We don't give a damn about what the world thinks of us." Under this circumstances, it is not surprised that those that have nurtured in this environment well... don't shy away from shady tactics. Because you know, they don't give a damn what the world thinks of them.

[Pierconium]

I only operate in realpolitik here, so ‘in reality’ equates to immediate and complete in my worldview.

As to the rest, I worked damn hard to have the last Condemnation lifted but before that took place I also cultivated a culture of acceptance and defiance and we wore it as a badge of honour. ‘Look at what the world thinks of us, and we don’t give a damn.’ It is that mentality that I was hoping you all could avoid this time around. History repeats, the cycle begins anew.

I find the last bit most intriguing. "We don't give a damn about what the world thinks of us." Under this circumstances, it is not surprised that those that have nurtured in this environment well... don't shy away from shady tactics. Because you know, they don't give a damn what the world thinks of them.

Yes, that was the point. The current overreaction pushes the populace towards that mentality. It pushes the Pacific towards me.

I quite enjoy retirement and I actually think it might be fun to see real change in the Pacific, something my generation (ingame) does not easily seek or accept.

[Lord Dominator]

Hey, if true change and reform is happening, best of luck. Even if it is though, it isn't going to stop people being mad at the NPO for a probably awhile, apologies or no apologies.

[Cormactopia Prime]

The Emperor of the NPO has resigned. The Consul has been removed. Several members of the Senate have also resigned or been removed. Any one of these things is a significant action within a government like the NPO. The fact that you and others so blithely pass over them is what is amazing to me.

The new Emperor-select has issued apologies and brought in new members of the Senate, including some very vocal moderates and reformers that have been outside of Pacifican politics for a while and know the realities of the current situation abroad.

Everything you just described has happened before.

After the New Lazarene Order coup perpetrated against Lazarus by the NPO in 2015, Emperor Krulltopia resigned. Regent Feux was given the boot. Senators were dismissed. A new Emperor, promising reform -- namely you -- succeeded Krulltopia. We were told nothing like the NLO would ever happen again. And yet here we are, and things that make the NLO pale in comparison have occurred. Everyone dismissed, everyone banned was eventually reinstated. You're asking us to once again believe that these dismissals and bans will mean something, when history has shown us they won't.

In regard to the claim that we are pushing the NPO toward an extreme mentality, that's hogwash. The NPO is inclined toward extremism no matter what. It's built into the ideological DNA of the NPO. Who was pushing the NPO toward extremism when we gave the NPO another chance last time? The NPO was at peace when its agents were infiltrating The North Pacific, Lazarus, Osiris, and The Black Hawks. It didn't need pushed toward extremism, it didn't need pushed toward aggression. The NPO's default state is extremism and aggression, and with or without this response from the regions that have been the targets of NPO aggression and their friends and allies, the NPO will remain an extremist and aggressive regime.

The NPO will remain extremist and aggressive, that is, until it has been relegated to the ash heap of history. NPO delenda est.

[Aclion]

Hey, if true change and reform is happening, best of luck.

I look forward to repealing the now obsolete condemnation in 6/7 years.

[Pierconium]

The Emperor of the NPO has resigned. The Consul has been removed. Several members of the Senate have also resigned or been removed. Any one of these things is a significant action within a government like the NPO. The fact that you and others so blithely pass over them is what is amazing to me.

The new Emperor-select has issued apologies and brought in new members of the Senate, including some very vocal moderates and reformers that have been outside of Pacifican politics for a while and know the realities of the current situation abroad.

Everything you just described has happened before.

After the New Lazarene Order coup perpetrated against Lazarus by the NPO in 2015, Emperor Krulltopia resigned. Regent Feux was given the boot. Senators were dismissed. A new Emperor, promising reform -- namely you -- succeeded Krulltopia. We were told nothing like the NLO would ever happen again. And yet here we are, and things that make the NLO pale in comparison have occurred. Everyone dismissed, everyone banned was eventually reinstated. You're asking us to once again believe that these dismissals and bans will mean something, when history has shown us they won't.

In regard to the claim that we are pushing the NPO toward an extreme mentality, that's hogwash. The NPO is inclined toward extremism no matter what. It's built into the ideological DNA of the NPO. Who was pushing the NPO toward extremism when we gave the NPO another chance last time? The NPO was at peace when its agents were infiltrating The North Pacific, Lazarus, Osiris, and The Black Hawks. It didn't need pushed toward extremism, it didn't need pushed toward aggression. The NPO's default state is extremism and aggression, and with or without this response from the regions that have been the targets of NPO aggression and their friends and allies, the NPO will remain an extremist and aggressive regime.

The NPO will remain extremist and aggressive, that is, until it has been relegated to the ash heap of history. NPO delenda est.

So you are just copying and pasting responses from thread to thread now? Laziness has never been an attribute I would have given to you, Cormac Quixote. I guess it is true, you do learn something new every day.

[Cormactopia Prime]

So you are just copying and pasting responses from thread to thread now? Laziness has never been an attribute I would have given to you, Cormac Quixote. I guess it is true, you do learn something new every day.

That wasn't copy-pasted, but if you're going to spout the same nonsense in multiple venues, expect similar responses.

[Pierconium]

So you are just copying and pasting responses from thread to thread now? Laziness has never been an attribute I would have given to you, Cormac Quixote. I guess it is true, you do learn something new every day.

That wasn't copy-pasted, but if you're going to spout the same nonsense in multiple venues, expect similar responses.

Okay, Alonso.

[Ramaeus]

The NPO will remain extremist and aggressive, that is, until it has been relegated to the ash heap of history. NPO delenda est.

I find it hard to believe that you think the NPO will lose the Pacific.

[Cormactopia Prime]

The NPO will remain extremist and aggressive, that is, until it has been relegated to the ash heap of history. NPO delenda est.

I find it hard to believe that you think the NPO will lose the Pacific.

I see no reason it couldn't. Other regimes have lost other Feeders and Sinkers. I see no reason to be defeatist just because of the NPO's longevity.

[Pierconium]

I find it hard to believe that you think the NPO will lose the Pacific.

I see no reason it couldn't. Other regimes have lost other Feeders and Sinkers. I see no reason to be defeatist just because of the NPO's longevity.

'For neither good nor evil can last for ever; and so it follows that as evil has lasted a long time, good must now be close at hand.'

[New Periapsis]

The Administrative Technocracy of New Periapsis gives this proposal our full support. Additionally, due to the specific region being condemned, we would like to add the nation of Masacarren as an item of concern. Its societal climate has shown itself to be completely unstable—turning from Iron Fist Consumerists, to an Authoritarian Democracy, to a Psychotic Dictatorship, to Iron Fist Consumerists once more in the mere two months it has existed.

Even in limited observations, Masacarren appears to be a regime with societal qualities comparable to Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Any and all political freedoms or civil liberties are being perpetually outlawed within the nation, with virtually every native denizen stripped of basic rights and individual identity. People are taught to serve the state above all else, with any slight deviance in beliefs expressed considered to be dissent, ergo treason. With the mere expression of free thinking, citizens and tourists alike are subject to immediate subjugation via the death penalty with any due process in a non-existent judiciary system. Alternatively, if not immediately executed, people found to be perpetrators of legal offences are abducted by a "secret police" and subsequently transported to forced labor camps and subject to inhumane forms of corporal punishment regardless of legal nationality.

Beyond the inhumane treatment of citizens, it has become apparent that intervention is required out of necessity due to the unrestrained usage of Variola Ulceris, a disease related to the smallpox family and previously considered eradicated but was revived from a sample of permafrost 400 years old. In the interest of global health and safety, an initiative to take diplomatic action against Masacarren must be considered.

[Jar Wattinree]

The Administrative Technocracy of New Periapsis gives this proposal our full support. Additionally, due to the specific region being condemned, we would like to add the nation of Masacarren as an item of concern. Its societal climate has shown itself to be completely unstable—turning from Iron Fist Consumerists, to an Authoritarian Democracy, to a Psychotic Dictatorship, to Iron Fist Consumerists once more in the mere two months it has existed.

Even in limited observations, Masacarren appears to be a regime with societal qualities comparable to Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Any and all political freedoms or civil liberties are being perpetually outlawed within the nation, with virtually every native denizen stripped of basic rights and individual identity. People are taught to serve the state above all else, with any slight deviance in beliefs expressed considered to be dissent, ergo treason. With the mere expression of free thinking, citizens and tourists alike are subject to immediate subjugation via the death penalty with any due process in a non-existent judiciary system. Alternatively, if not immediately executed, people found to be perpetrators of legal offences are abducted by a "secret police" and subsequently transported to forced labor camps and subject to inhumane forms of corporal punishment regardless of legal nationality.

Beyond the inhumane treatment of citizens, it has become apparent that intervention is required out of necessity due to the unrestrained usage of Variola Ulceris, a disease related to the smallpox family and previously considered eradicated but was revived from a sample of permafrost 400 years old. In the interest of global health and safety, an initiative to take diplomatic action against Masacarren must be considered.

Mascarren is not the topic of this Condemn.

[New Periapsis]

Mascarren is not the topic of this Condemn.

We understand. However, due to the nation of Mascarren being in the same region and a threat entity, we concluded it was noteworthy enough to be discussed.

[Galiantus III]

Mascarren is not the topic of this Condemn.

We understand. However, due to the nation of Mascarren being in the same region and a threat entity, we concluded it was noteworthy enough to be discussed.

Most of us here are over from gameplay, and are much more versed on things involving regional politics and military actions taken by mass action of WA nations. Are you saying that the role-players of the New Pacific Order have actually posed a threat within the RP community, too? Please pardon my lack of understanding here. I don't RP, I just answer issues and participate in regional governments, and the cultural differences between the two communities of what it means to be in-character versus out-of-character make it difficult to know how to talk with you about this proposal.

[Jar Wattinree]

Mascarren is not the topic of this Condemn.

We understand. However, due to the nation of Mascarren being in the same region and a threat entity, we concluded it was noteworthy enough to be discussed.

It is an irrelevant nation. If it was a roleplayer in the Pacific to be Condemned, we have a few who are nukeMAD-happy.