[PASSED] Condemn The Pacific

[Dragonisia]

Key word being catch? *Snorts*

I don't see your point.

The Pacific is acting no better than Userites in regards to it's relations with other GCRs, and it's being condemned for it. That's the point that matters.

Seeking unity among the GCRs is not a crime. Nor is it worthy of condemnation.

[Lord Dominator]

I don't see your point.

The Pacific is acting no better than Userites in regards to it's relations with other GCRs, and it's being condemned for it. That's the point that matters.

Seeking unity among the GCRs is not a crime.

Spying, subverting, and couping to do so usually is however.

[Consular]

Key word being catch? *Snorts*

I don't see your point.

There is no point to see. His objective is to derail legitimate discussion of the proposal.

[Dragonisia]

Seeking unity among the GCRs is not a crime.

Spying, subverting, and couping to do so usually is however.

Freedom fighting at its finest when in the presence of true authoritarians.

[Dragonisia]

I don't see your point.

There is no point to see. His objective is to derail legitimate discussion of the proposal.

Your mind-reading needs work. I am wondering how many logical fallacies you are going to need to rely on as a crutch to make your argument.

[Galiantus III]

I think the main issue people have with the NPO, deep down, is that it is extremely hypocritical. Raiders often do very unpopular things, but they are very open about what they do, and since TBR died they have largely become a positive social influence without the game. The NPO, on the other hand, spouts off rhetoric about respecting GCR sovereignty, then proceeds to violate GCR sovereignty to the extreme. They would have fewer enemies at this moment if they came out, denounced Francoism, and said explicitly that their intention is to dominate every GCR and bring them into their empire.

[The Tri State Area and Maine]

I don't see your point.

The Pacific is acting no better than Userites in regards to it's relations with other GCRs, and it's being condemned for it. That's the point that matters.

Seeking unity among the GCRs is not a crime. Nor is it worthy of condemnation.

but by subverting GCRs, you leave them more open to Userite forces.

Had the NPO not subverted Lazarus last year, it would not have fallen to the Userite raiders in Lone Wolves United.

I don't see your point.

There is no point to see. His objective is to derail legitimate discussion of the proposal.

True. Unfortunately, I have nobody that's actually interested in opposing the proposal for legitimate reasons here to argue with.

[Dragonisia]

I think the main issue people have with the NPO, deep down, is that it is extremely hypocritical. Raiders often do very unpopular things, but they are very open about what they do, and since TBR died they have largely become a positive social influence without the game. The NPO, on the other hand, spouts off rhetoric about respecting GCR sovereignty, then proceeds to violate GCR sovereignty to the extreme. They would have fewer enemies at this moment if they came out, denounced Francoism, and said explicitly that their intention is to dominate every GCR and bring them into their empire.

Denouncing Francoism? *Snorts* I am restraining from breaking out in raucous laughter at the thought. It has served those which adhere to it well. There is no reason to retreat from an ideology which is factual and truthful. There isn't a sovereign power worth its salt that doesn't spy or subvert.. in extreme instances coup.. those in opposition to its ideology. But they do it for different reasons. The argument is that we do this solely to serve ourselves and that is what makes it worthy of condemnation. Truth is we simply wish to bring enlightenment and show the userite the error of their ways. Perhaps you should join us in this grand campaign?

[Dragonisia]

Seeking unity among the GCRs is not a crime. Nor is it worthy of condemnation.

but by subverting GCRs, you leave them more open to Userite forces.

Had the NPO not subverted Lazarus last year, it would not have fallen to the Userite raiders in Lone Wolves United.

There is no point to see. His objective is to derail legitimate discussion of the proposal.

True. Unfortunately, I have nobody that's actually interested in opposing the proposal for legitimate reasons here to argue with.

Not every operation goes as intended, but if you truly care about the GCRs, well.. you know how to contact us.

[Dragonisia]

Seeking unity among the GCRs is not a crime. Nor is it worthy of condemnation.

but by subverting GCRs, you leave them more open to Userite forces.

Had the NPO not subverted Lazarus last year, it would not have fallen to the Userite raiders in Lone Wolves United.

There is no point to see. His objective is to derail legitimate discussion of the proposal.

True. Unfortunately, I have nobody that's actually interested in opposing the proposal for legitimate reasons here to argue with.

I guess you don't think the opinions of Pacificans matter then. *snorts*

[The Tri State Area and Maine]

Not every operation goes as intended, but if you truly care about the GCRs, well.. you know how to contact us.

I can't support a force that tries to subvert the GCRs for it's own gain, whether that is the NPO or Userites.

There isn't a sovereign power worth its salt that doesn't spy or subvert

Name one other region that has done it. Don't say The Pacific, as they have fallen to the Userite menace that is the New Pacific Order.

Truth is we simply wish to bring enlightenment and show the userite the error of their ways.

GCRs do not wish for the NPO to infiltrate them with their NPO's Userite ideologies. When the NPO truly opposes the Userite menace, then I will support the NPO.

I guess you don't think the opinions of Pacificans matter then. *snorts*

I do not respect the opinions of the Userites that have taken over The Pacific, no.

[Consular]

This board does have multi-quote functionality. You could stop triple posting eh

Especially when all those posts lack any real substance anyway

[Jar Wattinree]

Not every operation goes as intended, but if you truly care about the GCRs, well.. you know how to contact us.

I can't support a force that tries to subvert the GCRs for it's own gain, whether that is the NPO or Userites.

There isn't a sovereign power worth its salt that doesn't spy or subvert

Name one other region that has done it. Don't say The Pacific, as they have fallen to the Userite menace that is the New Pacific Order.

Truth is we simply wish to bring enlightenment and show the userite the error of their ways.

GCRs do not wish for the NPO to infiltrate them with their NPO's Userite ideologies. When the NPO truly opposes the Userite menace, then I will support the NPO.

I guess you don't think the opinions of Pacificans matter then. *snorts*

I do not respect the opinions of the Userites that have taken over The Pacific, no.

This is comedic gold. I so wish Unlimited was here to see this.

[The Tri State Area and Maine]

I can't support a force that tries to subvert the GCRs for it's own gain, whether that is the NPO or Userites.


Name one other region that has done it. Don't say The Pacific, as they have fallen to the Userite menace that is the New Pacific Order.


GCRs do not wish for the NPO to infiltrate them with their NPO's Userite ideologies. When the NPO truly opposes the Userite menace, then I will support the NPO.



I do not respect the opinions of the Userites that have taken over The Pacific, no.

This is comedic gold. I so wish Unlimited was here to see this.

Do you think subverting, destroying, and tampering with other GCRs on the behalf of the Pacific benefits them?

Also, you missed my earlier question:

Did the NPO not subvert. plot coups, and rig elections against other regions (including it's allies) solely for the benefit of The Pacific?

[Jar Wattinree]

This is comedic gold. I so wish Unlimited was here to see this.

Do you think subverting, destroying, and tampering with other GCRs on the behalf of the Pacific benefits them?

Also, you missed my earlier question:

Did the NPO not subvert. plot coups, and rig elections against other regions (including it's allies) solely for the benefit of The Pacific?

Hitting one's cranium against a wall made of brick, or in other words repeating a question that shall not be answered, will get you nowhere.

[Lord Dominator]

Spying, subverting, and couping to do so usually is however.

Freedom fighting at its finest when in the presence of true authoritarians.

Odd that the NPO is the only one to define it as freedom fighting or liberation, rather than what it is.

[The Tri State Area and Maine]

Do you think subverting, destroying, and tampering with other GCRs on the behalf of the Pacific benefits them?

Also, you missed my earlier question:

Hitting one's cranium against a wall made of brick, or in other words repeating a question that shall not be answered, will get you nowhere.

So The Pacific DID, in fact, subvert and support coups against it's fellow GCRs. Because if it didn't do those things, you would deny it.

Good to know.

[Jar Wattinree]

Hitting one's cranium against a wall made of brick, or in other words repeating a question that shall not be answered, will get you nowhere.

So The Pacific DID, in fact, subvert and support coups against it's fellow GCRs. Because if it didn't do those things, you would deny it.

Good to know.

Or the more logical and simpler explanation is you wouldn't care to hear it. Considered that one, maybe?

[Lord Dominator]

Not sure why the question matters, when we have evidence that they did.

[Jar Wattinree]

Not sure why the question matters, when we have evidence that they did.

You mean historical fact? Not much evidence so much as history.

[The Tri State Area and Maine]

So The Pacific DID, in fact, subvert and support coups against it's fellow GCRs. Because if it didn't do those things, you would deny it.

Good to know.

Or the more logical and simpler explanation is you wouldn't care to hear it. Considered that one, maybe?

Denying something that you didn't do seems like the most logical and simple action to me.

Not sure why the question matters, when we have evidence that they did.

The only way they can justify defending it is if they deny it. Since they are defending it, I'm assuming they would deny it.

Not sure why the question matters, when we have evidence that they did.

You mean historical fact? Not much evidence so much as history.

It is historical fact that the NPO has supported not only the New Lazarene Order in 2015 but attempted to get Funk to coup in Lazarus, which lead to the establishment of the Undead Dominion, and later the Userite regime that was the Wolfist Khanate, among the NPO's many other subversions.

[Lord Dominator]

Not sure why the question matters, when we have evidence that they did.

You mean historical fact? Not much evidence so much as history.

If by history you mean 'TNP found a spy a couple days ago' or evidence of operations last year overseen by the now former (and rightfully so) Emperor and Regent, sure.
Among of course, all the other stuff found out about in the last week or so. And all the stuff done under previous Emperors.

[Jar Wattinree]

You mean historical fact? Not much evidence so much as history.

It is historical fact that the NPO has supported not only the New Lazarene Order in 2015 but attempted to get Funk to coup in Lazarus, which lead to the establishment of the Undead Dominion, and later the Userite regime that was the Wolfist Khanate, among the NPO's many other subversions.

If you get off your moral indignation high horse for a second, you'll remember that the New Pacific Order opposed the Khanate thoroughly, as the Khanate was a puppet of the Lone Wolves United, indeed maybe even successor. But then Imki counter-couped and took over, and declared Lazarus a Warzone, and then came the Peacekeeper Agreement, which the NPO was involved in as a demonstration of good will towards a troubled sister GCR. More relevant news at 11.

You mean historical fact? Not much evidence so much as history.

If by history you mean 'TNP found a spy a couple days ago' or evidence of operations last year overseen by the now former (and rightfully so) Emperor and Regent, sure.
Among of course, all the other stuff found out about in the last week or so. And all the stuff done under previous Emperors.

I do believe this is where we can start mudslinging others now over irrelevancies.

NPO dewenda est ;;w;;

[Lord Dominator]

I do believe this is where we can start mudslinging others now over irrelevancies.

NPO dewenda est ;;w;;

Not exactly what I would call irrelevancies, but whatever

[The Tri State Area and Maine]

If you get off your moral indignation high horse for a second, you'll remember that the New Pacific Order opposed the Khanate thoroughly, as the Khanate was a puppet of the Lone Wolves United, indeed maybe even successor. But then Imki counter-couped and took over, and declared Lazarus a Warzone, and then came the Peacekeeper Agreement, which the NPO was involved in as a demonstration of good will towards a troubled sister GCR. More relevant news at 11.

If the NPO hadn't pressured the Resistance into taking action against Funk, or encouraged Funk to coup Lazarus in the first place, there would have been no Khanate in the first place.

The NPO also doesn't get points for condemning the Khanate, when the NPO would have done the same thing the Khanate did.