[PASSED] Condemn Macedon

[Fauxia]

Comparing a community (a historic region) or actual prehistoric artwork to some meaningless legislation in a game is a little much, don’t you think?

Especially the artwork.

10 years, several thousand, who cares? Same diff.

[All Wild Things]

Comparing a community (a historic region) or actual prehistoric artwork to some meaningless legislation in a game is a little much, don’t you think?

Especially the artwork.

10 years, several thousand, who cares? Same diff.

The author of this proposal is also the author of "Liberate Boston". They knew that Boston was a dead puppet dump that had no natives and no community. They knew there was never a golden age of Boston. Yet they felt a need to preserve the region. I see nothing there worth preserving. (full story here). Regions come and go at a rate of about 500 per week. There's nothing unique or special about Boston.

SC1 is unique and special. It was the point where "meaningless legislation" found it's true home. 3,123 people thought the resolution was worth passing, in full knowledge that it had no material impact. It's a tribute to the raw frustration, anger, and passion that people felt about Macedon at the time. That's way more deserving of preservation than a dead puppet dump.

This SC forum shows 2600 topics. That's a rate of about five newly proposed pieces of meaningless legislation every week since that first one, each of them hotly debated. The persistent popularity of meaningless legislation makes SC1 a major landmark in the history of this game. There are no earlier examples of this type of meaningless legislation. That's what makes it comparable to prehistoric art. It's not that it's necessarily good. It's just that we have nothing older, and once it's gone, it's gone.

The new proposal is well written, detailed, and well researched. But it should remain as a history book. Not new legislation. Macedon doesn't need a fresh condemnation. But NS needs it's history.

#SaveSC1

[Kuriko]

Repealing SC#1 doesn't destroy it, nor does it completely remove it from SC history. It'll still be there like any other resolution, just crossed through like any other repealed legislation. The resolution is an electronic piece of legislation that will never truly be destroyed like RL artifacts or RL art can be.

[Jar Wattinree]

I'd argue that the new Condemnation would actually serve better as a history book than the first Condemn did. I never got what Macedon did when I was new to the game, it was just a dead region with few embassies to its name. The new one has much more detail and would serve future generations of NSers to come.

[Lord Dominator]

Repealing something doesn't magically make its impact or meaning go away. If we didn't think it was worthwhile, this replacement wouldn't exist.
Better documentation is all that is desired.

[Jar Wattinree]

Repealing something doesn't magically make its impact or meaning go away. If we didn't think it was worthwhile, this replacement wouldn't exist.
Better documentation is all that is desired.

Hear hear. There's no better author than Kuriko among those of the SC to do it.

[Marshite Ponies]

"Hello. I am Ambassador Twilight Sparkle of the Republic of Akila and I am here to explain why the Republic opposes this resolution. Macedon as a current region is not worthy of a condemnation based on current movements, as we all know and recognize. The region has been condemned before, and the current repeal effort coupled with this will do little other than spend the Security Council's time poorly on what amounts to rewording past resolutions. We applaud that this resolution is indeed blatantly superior to SC#1, and if there were a method of evolving such texts we would support the evolution of the old text to this superior standard. But between the repeal and replace being discussed, we simply see it as an expenditure of time with little gain in regards to a region whose time has come and gone. Have a Harmonious Day!"

[All Wild Things]

Hi,

I'm questioning the legality of this proposal, as I think it contains duplication. The original SC1 condemns Macedon for its actions against France. This proposal also condemns Macedon for its actions against France.

I'd argue that the new Condemnation would actually serve better as a history book than the first Condemn did. I never got what Macedon did when I was new to the game, it was just a dead region with few embassies to its name. The new one has much more detail and would serve future generations of NSers to come.

I don't think the SC was intended to be a history book. It's intended to reflect opinions that were current at the time. Over time, it becomes a source of first-hand historical artefacts. I've no problem with people writing detailed histories of regions (I've written two) but I don't see the need for history to be passed into law. I certainly don't see value in destroying an original historical artefact to replace it with a history book.

[Kuriko]

Hi,

I'm questioning the legality of this proposal, as I think it contains duplication. The original SC1 condemns Macedon for its actions against France. This proposal also condemns Macedon for its actions against France.

I'd argue that the new Condemnation would actually serve better as a history book than the first Condemn did. I never got what Macedon did when I was new to the game, it was just a dead region with few embassies to its name. The new one has much more detail and would serve future generations of NSers to come.

I don't think the SC was intended to be a history book. It's intended to reflect opinions that were current at the time. Over time, it becomes a source of first-hand historical artefacts. I've no problem with people writing detailed histories of regions (I've written two) but I don't see the need for history to be passed into law. I certainly don't see value in destroying an original historical artefact to replace it with a history book.

I stated this in the TRR forum, and ill state it here. Before I started drafting this proposal I spoke to Wrapper on Discord about the duplication rule. He said that as long as I don't mention the garish WFEs, and as long as it contains a lot more info than SC#1, it won't fall afoul of duplication.

[All Wild Things]

I stated this in the TRR forum, and ill state it here. Before I started drafting this proposal I spoke to Wrapper on Discord about the duplication rule. He said that as long as I don't mention the garish WFEs, and as long as it contains a lot more info than SC#1, it won't fall afoul of duplication.

Damn! There goes that angle!

[Wrapper]

Given that I was peripherally involved in this proposal prior to its posting, I don’t feel I should make any sort of ruling on this (nor have I marked it legal/illegal in the queue for the same reason). However, two other moderators have considered this and it appears they believe it is legal.

[Imperium Anglorum]

Are people actually making the argument that if something appeared in a resolution in the past, even if that resolution were repealed, it can never be mentioned again?

[Todd McCloud]

I'm cool with this region getting two condemnations, frankly. It's deserved.

[Lord Dominator]

Are people actually making the argument that if something appeared in a resolution in the past, even if that resolution were repealed, it can never be mentioned again?

The original one is still active actually, so duplication is actually a valid concern regarding da rules

[Frattastan IV]

Are people actually making the argument that if something appeared in a resolution in the past, even if that resolution were repealed, it can never be mentioned again?

Only because the replacement will pass before the repeal of the original.
Although Kuriko herself was arguing what you mentioned (that someone that cannot be C&C'd for the same action even if the original resolution was repealed) in another topic.

[Kuriko]

Are people actually making the argument that if something appeared in a resolution in the past, even if that resolution were repealed, it can never be mentioned again?

Only because the replacement will pass before the repeal of the original.
Although Kuriko herself was arguing what you mentioned (that someone that cannot be C&C'd for the same action even if the original resolution was repealed) in another topic.

Yeah, still not positive on the answer to that

[Neo Domais]

Yeah no, will be voting against. There dead, there a dead region, if you dislike them then you are you giving them a second badge of honor?

[Lord Dominator]

Yeah no, will be voting against. There dead, there a dead region, if you dislike them then you are you giving them a second badge of honor?

You clearly missed the planned repeal of the other one

[Mr Bubbly]

Is there really nothing better to do, that dig up a dead horse corpse, kick it some more, and then light it on fire? Can bygones simply not be bygones? Are authorship badges really this hard to come by these days, that the lowest possible hanging fruit needs to be glommed onto?

[Kuriko]

It isn't about the badge, so I don't know why people keep bringing that up. This is about writing a better proposal to accurately detail what Macedon did, and what they attempted to do to other regions.

[Yokiria]

Kuriko also already has an SC badge or two, on their previous nation, so accusations of badge-hunting are ill-informed.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Kuriko also already has an SC badge or two, on their previous nation, so accusations of badge-hunting are ill-informed.

This. ^

This is a very well written proposal, and I'm glad to vote for it. I'm not sure I'm going to vote for repeal of SC#1 though. We'll see.

My vote is usually determined by the majority of WA nations in Pacifica though, so it's subject to change.

[Lord Dominator]

My vote is usually determined by the majority of WA nations in Pacifica though, so it's subject to change.

You poor thing, trapped by true democracy

[Monetillia]

[OOC: A fat, pale, greasy, pasty slug of a man in a dark, finely tailored, pinstriped suit rises from a group of four other indistinguishably similar men and waddles up to a microphone to speak. After spending entirely too long clearing his throat, an action everyone is certain was at one point interrupted by a minor heart attack, he looks frustrated at the gathered assembly.]

[IC]

The delegation from Monetillia would like to raise a point of order:

It seems procedurally inadequate that this esteemed body would find it acceptable to jump right into creating repetitive legislation and entirely skip the process of repealing the legislation. Effectively nothing is accomplished by adding this piece of legislation in the first place, but to do so without the bare minimum of a repeal of the first order is wholly redundant. On that basis alone, I am casting my vote against this legislation. What does the esteemed delegate from 10000 Islands hope to accomplish with this? She doesn't need the commendation badges; she's already earned them. Nothing is changed by the action. Certainly, this can't be because those who have invested their faith in her leadership are incapable of finding her anything better to do... and I can't imagine that she thinks this the best way to serve her people in her capacity.

No, I think there's something else going on here, and this delegation simply does not care enough to know what it is. We encourage her to find a more efficient and direct way to accomplish whatever her goal is because this is quite simply a waste of our time, and we'll not communicate support of such time-wasting by offering our vote in favor of it when there are any number of better things we could accomplish like trade negotiations.

Yes, trade negotiations. At least there is some money to be made there.

[OOC: The last couple sentences are somewhat difficult to hear because the wormish looking man is already shuffling back to his seat.]

[Kuriko]

Kuriko also already has an SC badge or two, on their previous nation, so accusations of badge-hunting are ill-informed.

This. ^

This is a very well written proposal, and I'm glad to vote for it. I'm not sure I'm going to vote for repeal of SC#1 though. We'll see.

My vote is usually determined by the majority of WA nations in Pacifica though, so it's subject to change.

Thank you Cormac! My vote is also determined by forum vote, so I'm just glad they allowed me to vote for my own proposal . Who knows, maybe even I myself won't be allowed to vote for the repeal >·<