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[PASSED] Debtor Voting Rights

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

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United States of Americanas
Envoy
 
Posts: 282
Founded: Jan 23, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby United States of Americanas » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:32 am

I am deeply offended that any nation would prohibit a person in debt from voting.

Next time you buy a car and have the debt of a car loan or a mortgage on your house you yes voters MAY NOT VOTE.

Voting is a fundamental right. All persons who are citizens of a nation have a RIGHT TO VOTE.

Here in United States Of Americanas ALL ARE REQUIRED TO VOTE AND THE DAY IS A FEDERAL HOLIDAY. THOSE WHO DO NOT VOTE ARE FINED.
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Economic Left/Right: -7.88
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Damn right I’m a liberal democratic socialist. I sit in the ranks of Gandhi.
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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18660
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:35 am

Okay, I'll be writing my repeal resolution soon.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
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Falcania
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1049
Founded: Sep 25, 2004
Anarchy

Postby Falcania » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:55 am

United States of Americanas wrote:I am deeply offended that any nation would prohibit a person in debt from voting.

Next time you buy a car and have the debt of a car loan or a mortgage on your house you yes voters MAY NOT VOTE.

Voting is a fundamental right. All persons who are citizens of a nation have a RIGHT TO VOTE.

Here in United States Of Americanas ALL ARE REQUIRED TO VOTE AND THE DAY IS A FEDERAL HOLIDAY. THOSE WHO DO NOT VOTE ARE FINED.


Voting is not a fundamental right under the existing body of WA legislation. The delegation from the Free Kingdom would like to remind the chamber that the General Assembly comprises nations of vastly differing cultures, and that consensus is not reached unilaterally.
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World Assembly: Ser Jeine Wilhelmsen on behalf of Queen Falcon IV, representing the Free Kingdom and the ancient and great region of Atlantian Oceania

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Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20784
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:06 am

Falcania wrote:
United States of Americanas wrote:I am deeply offended that any nation would prohibit a person in debt from voting.

Next time you buy a car and have the debt of a car loan or a mortgage on your house you yes voters MAY NOT VOTE.

Voting is a fundamental right. All persons who are citizens of a nation have a RIGHT TO VOTE.

Here in United States Of Americanas ALL ARE REQUIRED TO VOTE AND THE DAY IS A FEDERAL HOLIDAY. THOSE WHO DO NOT VOTE ARE FINED.


Voting is not a fundamental right under the existing body of WA legislation. The delegation from the Free Kingdom would like to remind the chamber that the General Assembly comprises nations of vastly differing cultures, and that consensus is not reached unilaterally.

Quite right. That's why each resolution has to gather a consensus among thousands of nations.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 15315
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:12 am

United States of Americanas wrote:I am deeply offended that any nation would prohibit a person in debt from voting.

Next time you buy a car and have the debt of a car loan or a mortgage on your house you yes voters MAY NOT VOTE.

Voting is a fundamental right. All persons who are citizens of a nation have a RIGHT TO VOTE.

Here in United States Of Americanas ALL ARE REQUIRED TO VOTE AND THE DAY IS A FEDERAL HOLIDAY. THOSE WHO DO NOT VOTE ARE FINED.

"Compulsory voting makes about as much sense as the death penalty for attempted suicide."
Last edited by Separatist Peoples on Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

His Worshipfulness Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Bears Armed Mission
Diplomat
 
Posts: 833
Founded: Jul 26, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Bears Armed Mission » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:26 am

"Bears Armed Mission has voted against the proposed resolution currently on the GA floor, 'Debtor Voting Rights', on the basis that it is unreasonable for the GA to tell its democratic members how to manage their elections while its many non-democratic members -- who would be unaffected by this measure -- are allowed to vote on this."

Artorrios o SouthWoods,
ChairBear, Bears Armed Mission at the World Assembly.
This is the WA Mission of Bears Armed, but is technically defined as a separate nation in its own right for all legal purposes. Population = sixty-four seventy-two staff, plus some dependents.

GA Resolution Author

Ardchoille says: “Bears can be depended on for decent arguments even when there aren't any”.

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Bananaaaaa
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 20
Founded: Aug 28, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Bananaaaaa » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:58 am

Heill, even though this legislation is very short and straight to the point. Therefore there is no headache of reading all the normal legalities, so therefore The Principality has voted for.


- The Principality
NEWS UPDATE The Principality
Law Writing equals headache, Flag has been changed, might change it in the foreseeable future. Factbook Category History updates

Real Life has been rearing again, so have been on and off again. W.A voting is really on a rare occasion, but endorsements are in full swing

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Blueflarst
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 438
Founded: Aug 25, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Blueflarst » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:52 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
United States of Americanas wrote:I am deeply offended that any nation would prohibit a person in debt from voting.

Next time you buy a car and have the debt of a car loan or a mortgage on your house you yes voters MAY NOT VOTE.

Voting is a fundamental right. All persons who are citizens of a nation have a RIGHT TO VOTE.

Here in United States Of Americanas ALL ARE REQUIRED TO VOTE AND THE DAY IS A FEDERAL HOLIDAY. THOSE WHO DO NOT VOTE ARE FINED.

"Compulsory voting makes about as much sense as the death penalty for attempted suicide."

The gnome has his point here
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Dirty Americans
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 175
Founded: Jun 23, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Dirty Americans » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:00 pm

In keeping with the spirit of brevity we have voted for this fine, short, and to the point resolution.

Oh and we actually agree on the subject at hand as well.
I mean you have to go out of your way not to read the whole resolution.
I think I will put this stuff in the spoiler box.
Because it's starting to look overly long.
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Velorum
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Sep 08, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Velorum » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:14 pm

The Velorian Delegation argues against this resolution-at-vote due the lack of enforceability. If those in debt were to be jailed for failure to pay (as they can and often are in Velorum) then they would simply have the voting rights as criminals who, under law, do not have the right to vote.

At this time the Velorian Delegation must maintain a vote in opposition of passage until such a GA resolution comes to the General Assembly that states how the aforementioned loophole can be kept from being used to the disadvantage of those who owe even the slightest of debts to Government or Corporate entities.
Federal Chancellor Pegleg
Federal Empire of Velorum and its Territories

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Arasi Luvasa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 640
Founded: Aug 29, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Arasi Luvasa » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:21 pm

"Further legislation addressing the issue of votes and imprisonment should be able to patch up the leaks. Just adress it that way and vote for this resolution."
Ambassador Ariela Galadriel Maria Mirase
37 year old Arch-bishop of the Arasi Christian Church (also the youngest ever arch-bishop and fifth woman in the church hierarchy). An attractive but stern woman with a strict adherence to religious and moral ethical codes, also somewhat of an optimist. She was recently appointed to the position following the election of Adrian Midnight to the position of Patriarch.

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 15315
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:25 pm

Blueflarst wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"Compulsory voting makes about as much sense as the death penalty for attempted suicide."

The gnome has his point here

"Gnomes are employees of the WA. I am not an employee of the WA. I'm not sure that makes any sense, ambassador. But that seems par for the course for you."

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Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Velorum
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Sep 08, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Velorum » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:55 pm

Arasi Luvasa wrote:"Further legislation addressing the issue of votes and imprisonment should be able to patch up the leaks. Just adress it that way and vote for this resolution."

The Velorian Delegation sees no reason to vote on what can only be described as incomplete legislation. If a more complete and comprehensive resolution reaches the Assembly floor, the Velorian Delegation will be more then happy to vote in its passage.

However, it would be irresponsible to let legislation pass on the basis of further legislation coming along to patch up the leaks.
Federal Chancellor Pegleg
Federal Empire of Velorum and its Territories

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Scherzinger
Envoy
 
Posts: 263
Founded: Aug 17, 2017
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Scherzinger » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:47 pm

Well since here in our glorious forward thinking nation, voting is illegal and pretty much outlawed, i have no issues with this one.

Against
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Wabberjocky
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 21
Founded: Oct 07, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wabberjocky » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:56 pm

Unless they owe ME. Then all rights should be revoked. :roll:

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Arasi Luvasa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 640
Founded: Aug 29, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Arasi Luvasa » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:10 pm

Scherzinger wrote:Well since here in our glorious forward thinking nation, voting is illegal and pretty much outlawed, i have no issues with this one.

Against

If your nation doesn't allow voting, this legislation simply won't affect you.
Ambassador Ariela Galadriel Maria Mirase
37 year old Arch-bishop of the Arasi Christian Church (also the youngest ever arch-bishop and fifth woman in the church hierarchy). An attractive but stern woman with a strict adherence to religious and moral ethical codes, also somewhat of an optimist. She was recently appointed to the position following the election of Adrian Midnight to the position of Patriarch.

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Durzan
Envoy
 
Posts: 238
Founded: Dec 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Durzan » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:28 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:Category: Furtherment of Democracy
Strength: Mild

The World Assembly hereby bars member nations from invoking a person's debts as reason to deprive that person of the right to vote.


As a democratic nation in support of the right to vote, the Empire supports and applauds the underlying intent of this proposed resolution. However, the current proposal is a bit short and vauge in nature, nor does it provide any legal definitions. As such, we feel that it wouldn't prove all that effective in accomplishing its intended goal as written.

Thereby, we consider it incomplete legislation and regretfully inform you that the Grand Empire of Durzan must vote against this proposal at this time, and further call for this current version of the proposal to be dismissed by the secretary so it can be reviewed and fleshed out more thoroughly.
Last edited by Durzan on Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Come at me Bro.

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DACOROMANIA
Envoy
 
Posts: 274
Founded: Mar 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby DACOROMANIA » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:03 am

I voted against this resolution. I expected much more from a WA Delegate. I'm expecting the Repeal because this resolution makes no sense without a legal form. Please, read FAQs on how a resolution/proposal is made.
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I want to save human race and to build a new nation/state, with ideals like human rights, peace and prosperity for all despite of any difference, avoiding the tyranny and preserving the liberty. Also you and we can save and unite the Earth, then going interstellar. Now I'm left alone even by family. Perhaps nobody cares. I wanted to do something important in life before to die, something that may really count.
I'm so alone man on Earth and I see how the world may fall into chaos. All looks irrational and immoral. It's a pain to not be able to do anything and to be surrounded by barbarians.

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Jocospor
Diplomat
 
Posts: 936
Founded: Nov 24, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jocospor » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:17 am

South Kchina wrote:
Old Hope wrote:This has a loophole.
Step 1: Criminalize non-payment of court fees or other debts owed to the government.
Step 2: Make the punishment two days of imprisonment for each day they don't pay.
Step 3: Disenfranchise incarcerated criminals.

This remains unanswered. Imperium Anglorum, why do you just ignore critique? Please address it.

Get used to it, that's all we'll say. I.A.'s got quite the reputation for ignoring people it doesn't consider to be worth it's time. Case in point, right here.

Congratulations, I.A, you've mistakenly submitted your "Tell us why the World Assembly is so flawed in 25 words or less!" entry to the General Assembly. What a pity! How will you win that cute holiday to the Maldives now?!

This "resolution" (which we're loathe to term as such) is, to us, completely and utterly pathetic. We'll quickly sum up why:

  1. Clear evidence of I.A. just trying to add another "We passed this!" to it's name. It's badge-hunting in the extreme, with the resolution written insincerely at best.
  2. I.A. mocks the World Assembly in a particularly snarky way. I.A.'s been accused of writing incomprehensible proposals, and now comes out with this? A one liner. Is that, in I.A.'s opinion, what the World Assembly is capable of understanding? It's the ultimate insult.
  3. This resolution is fundamentally flawed. If a man is incarcerated on the sole count of his debts, he is, in fact, incarcerated. His voting privileges are denied of him given his imprisonment. If a member nation is now suddenly barred from "invoking a person's debts as reason to deprive that person of the right to vote," what happens to the incarcerated man? Is he allowed to vote while his inmates are not? He must be, since his debts can't deny him the right to vote and the only reason he's in prison is because of his debts. Or, alternatively, is he set free, completely undermining the criminal justice system and societal order? Or, is he not actually afforded a vote because he's in jail and the criminal code is upheld - but he's only in jail due to his debts, so then what must happen is...
Try more than 25 words next time.

This is getting plenty of support from all I.A.'s cronies and the WA Elite, and unfortunately you can expect it to pass, thanks to I.A.'s reputation. Now, that's a pity.
HAIL THE CONFEDERATION!
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JOCOSPOR | CENTRAL IMPERIAL DIREKTORATE


The Shadow Cult is rising...

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Page
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12364
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:59 am

The Pagian delegation supports the passage of this resolution, believing that outstanding debts is not just cause to deprive one of their rights. We also applaud the author's brevity, a welcome contrast to the unnecessarily verbose resolutions which usually come up for a vote in these halls.
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Kenche Gle
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 24
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Kenche Gle » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:22 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:This is short!
Yes it is. And the site has passed shorter.


You are despicable at best. You take a resolution that's over 15 years old, being one of the first resolutions in nationstates, and you think that it doesn't matter? NationStates is way different than what it was a decade ago. There are more members, different rules and different requirements. This resolution is insulting both to NationStates and the WA. Your resolution and by extension yourself is what NS should weed out instead of letting it spread their ill-advised ideas and resolutions.

tl;dr This resolution is stupid.
Self-proclaimed idiot
Courtesy of Versutia

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Falcania
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1049
Founded: Sep 25, 2004
Anarchy

Postby Falcania » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:29 am

I note that in the past 36 hours some Falcanian institutions have begun to debate policies that would make it a criminal offence to be in debt on the day of an election or policy vote, punishable by 24 hours imprisonment.
II & Sports: The Free Kingdom of Falcania, Jayla, New Nestia, and Realms Otherwise Beneath the Skies

World Assembly: Ser Jeine Wilhelmsen on behalf of Queen Falcon IV, representing the Free Kingdom and the ancient and great region of Atlantian Oceania

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Militarized Algerstonia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 24
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Militarized Algerstonia » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:46 am

"The People's Republic hereby votes AGAINST this proposal by Imperium Anglorum, due to it only affecting democratic nations and not autocratic nations, combined with the fact that there are several loopholes involved in this; including letting prison inmates vote."
NPODELENDAEST’nt

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Mundiferrum
Diplomat
 
Posts: 830
Founded: Apr 07, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Mundiferrum » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:24 am

We do not like a lot of the statements thrown around against this resolution. We ourselves see no problems with the proposal as written, and we do not have qualms regarding multiple political systems being so involved in our democracy, but we understand contentions concerning those issues. On the other issues, however, we made this statement in our RMB:

"In defense of the proposal at vote:
There is no defense, because there is no argument. The brevity of the totally legal resolution makes its logic foolproof; the only discussion surrounding it should be about whether or not one's nation agrees with the principles behind it. And the principles behind a proposal must not relate to the character of the author: that is ad hominem, a very bad logical fallacy. Imperium Anglorum might be snarky, but considering all members in the WA, past and present, he is certainly not the snarkiest; his means may be underhanded at times, but only arguably immoral and never outright illegal; and knowing just how many resolutions he has previously passed, how many previous resolutions he's attempted to pass, and how broad his presence in the WA has been and is, he is far from being a 'badge hunter'. Ad hominem attacks play no part in good judgement; Mundiferrum voted according to our good judgment, and we encourage the rest of our fellow WA-member nations to do the same."
MARCVSGRAVELLIVSCISTERNAEMAGNORATOR-ORATORMVNDIFERRIADCONCILIVMMNDVM
Marcus Gravellius Cisternae Magnorator, Mundiferri Representative to the World Assembly
"Call me Gravey. Only my really close friends call me Marcus, and I don't think we're that close yet. Maybe."
No, we are not a nation of cat people. We're all humans (and a few annoying gnomes) here. The cat's just there because our king is such a genius, he saw that it would be a good military strategy to have a distractingly cute flag, to blind our enemies to (our) victory!
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Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20784
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:39 am

It's fucking delicious watching people accuse IA of "badge-hunting" when he's already passed 24 GA resolutions. Newsflash, you don't get additional badges for passing more resolutions in the same chamber.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

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