NationStates

Kavagrad wrote:

Turghan wrote: I would agree with that. After all, I seriously doubt that FCN would have let me join and much less stay since it's well known that I am Jewish. The Anti-Semitism claims are a joke and it's a joke I don't think is funny. As for the other issues, I cannot say anything as I was not a part of FCN at that time. So until I see Anti-Semitism among FCN members, I will remain. I still see this "Liberation" crap as some psycho's cry for serious therapy.

So you're saying that if there were evidence of anti-semitic behaviour from FCN's members, you would change your mind? 'Cause funnily enough, I have something you might want to see...

Is it from a user that is no longer in the FCN?

Nevertheless, let’s try to stay on topic.

Lalop wrote:

Turghan wrote: I would agree with that. After all, I seriously doubt that FCN would have let me join and much less stay since it's well known that I am Jewish. The Anti-Semitism claims are a joke and it's a joke I don't think is funny. As for the other issues, I cannot say anything as I was not a part of FCN at that time. So until I see Anti-Semitism among FCN members, I will remain. I still see this "Liberation" crap as some psycho's cry for serious therapy.

Nice! First other jew that I've met on NS! Conservative, Orthodox or Reform? 'I'm conservative' I have also seen no anti semitism in the FCN,but if there is 'which I doubt' plz show me because then I might switch regions.

I am Reform.

Lalop wrote:

Cedoria wrote:
No. It doesn't, because it only covers actions taken by your government. If you are a US citizen, you might want to learn a bit more about how it works before you cite it in an argument against someone who knows a fair bit more about it.

If it was the US Senate. It is not, however, and most of the world does not have the same standards for a number of good reasons, therefore the argument is invalid.

Again,I was hypothetically putting this in context,I did not mean it literally.

But it's not a hypothetical. It's an irrelevance. Your claim was that we should care about First Amendment rights. As you've been very clearly told, from multiple persons on both sides of this debate, we don't, and shouldn't.

Arguing from a dreamworld where the First Amendment matters on NS is not going to change the fact that in this particular case in the real woorld, it still doesn't.

Turghan wrote:

Lalop wrote:Nice! First other jew that I've met on NS! Conservative, Orthodox or Reform? 'I'm conservative' I have also seen no anti semitism in the FCN,but if there is 'which I doubt' plz show me because then I might switch regions.

I am Reform.

Nice! Did you go to Simchat Torah? Rip this is kinda off topic lets move this to tg's..

Could someone send me the evidence?

Gagium wrote:Nevertheless, let’s try to stay on topic.

Exactly what I was doing, thank you very much

Reading through Kavagrads evidence. I'm in shock. They might have been right. Gaigum,please explain why you did not take action against the poster?!!!!!!!

Lalop wrote:Reading through Kavagrads evidence. I'm in shock. They might have been right. Gaigum,please explain why you did not take action against the poster?!!!!!!!

We did. See the telegram I sent you.

Lalop wrote:Reading through Kavagrads evidence. I'm in shock. They might have been right. Gaigum,please explain why you did not take action against the poster?!!!!!!!

Ah, so the evidence is of someone who’s since been banned from the FCN and who has been banned for awhile now?

No wonder.

Lalop wrote:I don't know what I expected from someone who most likely spending all their time on the internet and probably on welfare,but this is ridiculous!
<snip>
Its a funny thing called the first amendment

The bolded is clearly an OOC attack on the poster. That is flaming, and is in violation of the site rules. Attack the argument, NOT the person.

As for the first amendment, please review the site FAQ, notably:

It's free speech, so I can post whatever I like here, right?

Ahahahaha! Hahaha! Free speech! No, it's not. I run this web site, see, so you have to play by my rules. It's like my own Father Knows Best state.

~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

Gagium wrote:

Lalop wrote:Reading through Kavagrads evidence. I'm in shock. They might have been right. Gaigum,please explain why you did not take action against the poster?!!!!!!!

Ah, so the evidence is of someone who’s since been banned from the FCN and who has been banned for awhile now?

No wonder.

And was around for at least a month after their anti-semitic and racist comments on your Discord, but please, carry on.

Also, thought you couldn't ban people from you region for those comments, so obviously they weren't banned for that behaviour, so I don't see how any of that was relevant.

Anyways, these images were sent to be as early as July 20. Action has been taken since then, which was over 2 months ago. Like I said, I regret saying what I said, though around a half of the evidence is of someone who’s been banned from the FCN. The liberation for something that has been halted entirely is absurd, and the other points of the liberation don’t add up. The fact that these images were withheld for months, and only timely released now after certain instances occurred, is something we should all be wondering about.

If anyone wants evidence that these images were taken and sent on July 20, send me a telegram.

Kavagrad wrote:

Gagium wrote:Ah, so the evidence is of someone who’s since been banned from the FCN and who has been banned for awhile now?

No wonder.

And was around for at least a month after their anti-semitic and racist comments on your Discord, but please, carry on.

If I’m correct, the user ‘left’ the region within a week of June 25. I would be happy to supply you with evidence of such, though this claim is completely false.

Gagium wrote:

Kavagrad wrote:And was around for at least a month after their anti-semitic and racist comments on your Discord, but please, carry on.

If I’m correct, the user ‘left’ the region within a week of June 25. I would be happy to supply you with evidence of such, though this claim is completely false.

The comment I referred to actually took place on May 25th, ain't that fun?

Kavagrad wrote:

Gagium wrote:If I’m correct, the user ‘left’ the region within a week of June 25. I would be happy to supply you with evidence of such, though this claim is completely false.

The comment I referred to actually took place on May 25th, ain't that fun?

Aw, you got me! You got me good!

Gagium wrote:Anyways, these images were sent to be as early as July 20. Action has been taken since then, which was over 2 months ago. Like I said, I regret saying what I said, though around a half of the evidence is of someone who’s been banned from the FCN. The liberation for something that has been halted entirely is absurd, and the other points of the liberation don’t add up. The fact that these images were withheld for months, and only timely released now after certain instances occurred, is something we should all be wondering about.

If anyone wants evidence that these images were taken and sent on July 20, send me a telegram.

If it's suspicious that it's only been used now, then surely it is equally suspicious as to why your region condoned the comments for so long before anybody involved in them actually left the region (that's before we get into the fact that some of them still haven't, yourself among them)? Or is an apparent delay in action only suspicious when FCN needs to use the fact to make an opportunist case for why they should avoid a thoroughly deserved liberation?

To put it bluntly, the mere fact that this stuff was even said and not jumped on immediately proves at best apathy, and at worst outright complicity by the leadership of FCN. Nothing you've said in your own defence would change any of that, even if it were all true (which it isn't.)

Gagium wrote:

Kavagrad wrote:The comment I referred to actually took place on May 25th, ain't that fun?

Aw, you got me! You got me good!

Oh, it's not fun when you're not trying! I shouldn't find it this easy to know more about these comments than the guy who provided a good chunk of the source material.

Kavagrad wrote:

Gagium wrote:Aw, you got me! You got me good!

Oh, it's not fun when you're not trying! I shouldn't find it this easy to know more about these comments than the guy who provided a good chunk of the source material.

With knowing that one of the screenshots are from May though..correct me if I’m wrong, but May is in the spring?

Gagium wrote:

Kavagrad wrote:Oh, it's not fun when you're not trying! I shouldn't find it this easy to know more about these comments than the guy who provided a good chunk of the source material.

With knowing that one of the screenshots are from May though..correct me if I’m wrong, but May is in the spring?

Indeed it is, and you'll notice that I never said that they all came from the summer. Just pointed out that some did.

Also, I tend to work with the meteorological calendar, so I had summer starting on the 1st of June, not the 21st, as is the case with the astronomical calendar, which I am assuming you subscribe to. Happy to clear that up.

Deleted

Jumping back a second, if I may, Gagium has stated that the only open Fascist in FCN has been gone for a long time.

Irou 3 seems pretty open.

All I'm saying is, before you make those broad statements, have a quick check.

Kavagrad wrote:Jumping back a second, if I may, Gagium has stated that the only open Fascist in FCN has been gone for a long time.

Irou 3 seems pretty open.

All I'm saying is, before you make those broad statements, have a quick check.

They have the whole Fascist Doctrine copy pasted as a dispatch..?

I don’t recall him ever openly expressing that he was a fascist on the RMB (And I don’t believe he’s on our discord), but that is certainly an interesting find.

As such, I’m sure the lot of us disagree with fascism, but the FCN does allow fascists. I personally disagree with fascism as it is a form of socialism and authoritarianism, though we are tolerant of fascists, so long as they aren’t national socialists.

Of course, one openly fascist person, who is not active in the FCN nor is in our discord, isn’t grounds upon which to claim our whole region is fascist and is “hiding its true nature”, as the proposal in question does (In wording oddly similar to the liberate kaiserreich resolution).

I do thank you for pointing this out though!

Lalop wrote:Reading through Kavagrads evidence. I'm in shock. They might have been right.

Imagine that. I'm honestly not sure I could roll my eyes any harder.

Man we've really dredged up the worst parts of NS haven't we?

Gagium wrote:

Kavagrad wrote:Jumping back a second, if I may, Gagium has stated that the only open Fascist in FCN has been gone for a long time.

Irou 3 seems pretty open.

All I'm saying is, before you make those broad statements, have a quick check.

They have the whole Fascist Doctrine copy pasted as a dispatch..?

I don’t recall him ever openly expressing that he was a fascist on the RMB (And I don’t believe he’s on our discord), but that is certainly an interesting find.

As such, I’m sure the lot of us disagree with fascism, but the FCN does allow fascists. I personally disagree with fascism as it is a form of socialism and authoritarianism, though we are tolerant of fascists, so long as they aren’t national socialists.

Of course, one openly fascist person, who is not active in the FCN nor is in our discord, isn’t grounds upon which to claim our whole region is fascist and is “hiding its true nature”, as the proposal in question does (In wording oddly similar to the liberate kaiserreich resolution).

I do thank you for pointing this out though!

I'm not arguing any of the above (from this source, anyway), just thought you should be aware. I'm just not comfortable with those kinds of inconsistencies, as you might have already gathered : )

Consular wrote:

Lalop wrote:Reading through Kavagrads evidence. I'm in shock. They might have been right.

Imagine that. I'm honestly not sure I could roll my eyes any harder.

Man we've really dredged up the worst parts of NS haven't we?

Yeah, it's almost like Kava's evidence actually shows what he says it shows, and not the wheedling non-explanations and non-apologies that have been offered for it since then.