[DEFEATED/DISCARDED] Lib. Federation Of Conservative Nations

[Thuzbekistan]

The Secretary-General of the World Assembly was elected on the campaign of "Full Communism For NationStates"?

And yes, but this seems rather isolated into their region.

I wasn't paying attention to the WA Secretariat election, but that was a probably a meme. Besides, communist or not, they have no effect on the outcome of WA votes, they just decide whether a proposal is legal or illegal according to WA rules.

That applies to most instances of these types of things happening, though. Regardless, it would be good to show that we don't approve of this region's actions as a community (the Security Council isn't the way to do it, but there are other ways to act.)

That was shown with KReich. There's no point in continuing offensive liberations just because we don't like the internal behavior of a region in an off-site chat.

[Gagium]

And you're embarrassing yourself by supporting this resolution. It's disgusting to see someone like you support a resolution to liberate a region which was allegedly being racist and not persecuting it's people in any way.

It's not alleged. There is very strong and conclusive evidence, unrefuted by any member of FCN.

Nothing alleged about it. Proven, guilty as charged. Done.

This embarrassing attempt at a counter-point needs to be treated for the nonsense it is.

The proposal states that members of the FCN SAY this stuff currently, while this has ceased several months ago, thus the false accusation in the proposal is indeed alleged.

[Quebecshire]

The Secretary-General of the World Assembly was elected on the campaign of "Full Communism For NationStates"?

And yes, but this seems rather isolated into their region.

I wasn't paying attention to the WA Secretariat election, but that was a probably a meme. Besides, communist or not, they have no effect on the outcome of WA votes, they just decide whether a proposal is legal or illegal according to WA rules.

That applies to most instances of these types of things happening, though. Regardless, it would be good to show that we don't approve of this region's actions as a community (the Security Council isn't the way to do it, but there are other ways to act.)

I like how it being a "meme" (when it wasn't, check the Sec-Gen's dispatch for it, and the election results, and their region and other stuff) applies just fine when you say it as a weak deflection tactic but you want to liberate a region over actual things done without serious intent.

[The Tri State Area and Maine]

I wasn't paying attention to the WA Secretariat election, but that was a probably a meme. Besides, communist or not, they have no effect on the outcome of WA votes, they just decide whether a proposal is legal or illegal according to WA rules.

That applies to most instances of these types of things happening, though. Regardless, it would be good to show that we don't approve of this region's actions as a community (the Security Council isn't the way to do it, but there are other ways to act.)

I like how it being a "meme" (when it wasn't, check the Sec-Gen's dispatch for it, and the election results, and their region and other stuff) applies just fine when you say it as a weak deflection tactic but you want to liberate a region over actual things done without serious intent.

If it wasn't, I still don't see the harm in it. Who cares if the Secretary General is Communist when it has no power?

As to your second point, I specifically said in the post that you quoted that I oppose the liberation. Also, most things of that nature don't have serious intent, so I don't see the point in ever getting mad at anything if the intent matters.

[Cedoria]

It's not alleged. There is very strong and conclusive evidence, unrefuted by any member of FCN.

Nothing alleged about it. Proven, guilty as charged. Done.

This embarrassing attempt at a counter-point needs to be treated for the nonsense it is.

The proposal states that members of the FCN SAY this stuff currently, while this has ceased several months ago, thus the false accusation in the proposal is indeed alleged.

I did not write the proposal, can't speak for its claims. Not having access to FCN's Discord, I have no idea is such behavior still persists, and only your word and the word of a few others whom I have no reason to believe. Even if it doesn't, it's not like your own comments were all that long ago.


The evidence that's been shown so far is most definitely not alleged, you did it, as did many members of FCN, several of whom remain in the region, and in highly influential positions, including yourself.

[Viridus]

That's his flag because he's Germany in the LCN RP/ Anyhow...
So what would a clean up effort even entail? In your mind?

Taking responsibility for the content, removal of those who remain in FCN were responsible, a public commitment to police such content in future, and a period of verifiable time where that pledge was kept.

If I saw all that, i'd be inclined to alter my vote on this thing. So far none of them have happened.

1. Referring to one of your other posts, we have said numerous times that we don't agree with fascism

Now, onto this post:
1. We did
2. We have
3. We are

Sorry, but this proposal came a few months late. Plus, a lot of us had the ethical framework to stamp this out: New Waldensia, Freezic Vast, Dobrobyt, myself and even Gagium in the end. The problem was that Colorado-Kansas/San Carlos Islands brought his friends in so we couldn't do anything legally in the Senate. We warned him and we fought him every step of the way until he got tired of fighting and left, then the mods finally caught up with him and deleted his nation. His friends are all gone too. The cleanup began as soon as he left when we were able to get the Senate back. Not too long ago he flamed on our RMB with his new nation. Not too long ago he tried to come back with his new nation and Gagium banned him immediately. So while it may have taken a bit too long, good has prevailed over evil

[Cedoria]

Taking responsibility for the content, removal of those who remain in FCN were responsible, a public commitment to police such content in future, and a period of verifiable time where that pledge was kept.

If I saw all that, i'd be inclined to alter my vote on this thing. So far none of them have happened.

1. Referring to one of your other posts, we have said numerous times that we don't agree with fascism

Now, onto this post:
1. We did
2. We have
3. We are

Sorry, but this proposal came a few months late. Plus, a lot of us had the ethical framework to stamp this out: New Waldensia, Freezic Vast, Dobrobyt, myself and even Gagium in the end. The problem was that Colorado-Kansas/San Carlos Islands brought his friends in so we couldn't do anything legally in the Senate. We warned him and we fought him every step of the way until he got tired of fighting and left, then the mods finally caught up with him and deleted his nation. His friends are all gone too. The cleanup began as soon as he left when we were able to get the Senate back. Not too long ago he flamed on our RMB with his new nation. Not too long ago he tried to come back with his new nation and Gagium banned him immediately. So while it may have taken a bit too long, good has prevailed over evil

You would of course say that even if it were not true. I hope it is, and if I see enough evidence over time then I will of course change my position on this.

But I think a lot of people will be watching FCN very closely as a result of this resolution, and will definitely hold you to your word.

I also don't see Gagium or anyone else expressing public contrition for their own participation. Only say they should have stopped it sooner, but why do that, when they were participants?


For the record, I don't particularly care if this is a Liberation. I would support a condemnation with even more enthusiasm if one were offered, but this is the only proposal I've been offered a vote on. I would concur that there are other means to put pressure on FCN which should absolutely be utilised in these circumstances, and will be using some of them myself in future.

[Kim Triumphant]

I would like to see the evidence too.

I've not seen the evidence either. If someone would be kind enough to tg me the evidence, that would be really appreciated.

Gladly sent!

You should send everyone a mass telegram of the evidence, if you're allowed to telegram than this doesn't break the rules

It seems like most people haven't seen the evidence, atleast I'm hoping that's the case

[Viridus]

1. Referring to one of your other posts, we have said numerous times that we don't agree with fascism

Now, onto this post:
1. We did
2. We have
3. We are

Sorry, but this proposal came a few months late. Plus, a lot of us had the ethical framework to stamp this out: New Waldensia, Freezic Vast, Dobrobyt, myself and even Gagium in the end. The problem was that Colorado-Kansas/San Carlos Islands brought his friends in so we couldn't do anything legally in the Senate. We warned him and we fought him every step of the way until he got tired of fighting and left, then the mods finally caught up with him and deleted his nation. His friends are all gone too. The cleanup began as soon as he left when we were able to get the Senate back. Not too long ago he flamed on our RMB with his new nation. Not too long ago he tried to come back with his new nation and Gagium banned him immediately. So while it may have taken a bit too long, good has prevailed over evil

You would of course say that even if it were not true. I hope it is, and if I see enough evidence over time then I will of course change my position on this.

But I think a lot of people will be watching FCN very closely as a result of this resolution, and will definitely hold you to your word.

I also don't see Gagium or anyone else expressing public contrition for their own participation. Only say they should have stopped it sooner, but why do that, when they were participants?


For the record, I don't particularly care if this is a Liberation. I would support a condemnation with even more enthusiasm if one were offered, but this is the only proposal I've been offered a vote on. I would concur that there are other means to put pressure on FCN which should absolutely be utilised in these circumstances, and will be using some of them myself in future.

Well, Gagium did stop a lot sooner than the other culprits in the evidence, he saw the negative affects that it was having on the region and he even predicted stuff like this liberation proposal happening. But seriously, if you have a Discord account you really should check out our server. Sure there may be some joking around that others may not like, but nothing made intentionally to hurt people outside of the small group of people on Discord as the joking around is between friends

[Thuzbekistan]

1. Referring to one of your other posts, we have said numerous times that we don't agree with fascism

Now, onto this post:
1. We did
2. We have
3. We are

Sorry, but this proposal came a few months late. Plus, a lot of us had the ethical framework to stamp this out: New Waldensia, Freezic Vast, Dobrobyt, myself and even Gagium in the end. The problem was that Colorado-Kansas/San Carlos Islands brought his friends in so we couldn't do anything legally in the Senate. We warned him and we fought him every step of the way until he got tired of fighting and left, then the mods finally caught up with him and deleted his nation. His friends are all gone too. The cleanup began as soon as he left when we were able to get the Senate back. Not too long ago he flamed on our RMB with his new nation. Not too long ago he tried to come back with his new nation and Gagium banned him immediately. So while it may have taken a bit too long, good has prevailed over evil

You would of course say that even if it were not true. I hope it is, and if I see enough evidence over time then I will of course change my position on this.

But I think a lot of people will be watching FCN very closely as a result of this resolution, and will definitely hold you to your word.

I also don't see Gagium or anyone else expressing public contrition for their own participation. Only say they should have stopped it sooner, but why do that, when they were participants?


For the record, I don't particularly care if this is a Liberation. I would support a condemnation with even more enthusiasm if one were offered, but this is the only proposal I've been offered a vote on. I would concur that there are other means to put pressure on FCN which should absolutely be utilised in these circumstances, and will be using some of them myself in future.

this whole thing was stupid to begin with. The SC crowd is just bored and taking out people they don't like. It's downright pathetic. I really hope this is the last liberation used as an ideological policing tool.

[Cedoria]

You would of course say that even if it were not true. I hope it is, and if I see enough evidence over time then I will of course change my position on this.

But I think a lot of people will be watching FCN very closely as a result of this resolution, and will definitely hold you to your word.

I also don't see Gagium or anyone else expressing public contrition for their own participation. Only say they should have stopped it sooner, but why do that, when they were participants?


For the record, I don't particularly care if this is a Liberation. I would support a condemnation with even more enthusiasm if one were offered, but this is the only proposal I've been offered a vote on. I would concur that there are other means to put pressure on FCN which should absolutely be utilised in these circumstances, and will be using some of them myself in future.

this whole thing was stupid to begin with. The SC crowd is just bored and taking out people they don't like. It's downright pathetic. I really hope this is the last liberation used as an ideological policing tool.

It's not really used as ideological policing. We don't know who submitted the resolution, and FCN blames it on UCS, which is definitely not a Leftist region. For myself, I have no ideological beef with any Conservative region that I would want settled through the SC (Fascist regions are a different matter). This one I'm supporting because of FCN's behavior and the evidence I've seen of it, though I would have preferred the proposal go through full drafting and proper channels beforehand.

You would of course say that even if it were not true. I hope it is, and if I see enough evidence over time then I will of course change my position on this.

But I think a lot of people will be watching FCN very closely as a result of this resolution, and will definitely hold you to your word.

I also don't see Gagium or anyone else expressing public contrition for their own participation. Only say they should have stopped it sooner, but why do that, when they were participants?


For the record, I don't particularly care if this is a Liberation. I would support a condemnation with even more enthusiasm if one were offered, but this is the only proposal I've been offered a vote on. I would concur that there are other means to put pressure on FCN which should absolutely be utilised in these circumstances, and will be using some of them myself in future.

Well, Gagium did stop a lot sooner than the other culprits in the evidence, he saw the negative affects that it was having on the region and he even predicted stuff like this liberation proposal happening. But seriously, if you have a Discord account you really should check out our server. Sure there may be some joking around that others may not like, but nothing made intentionally to hurt people outside of the small group of people on Discord as the joking around is between friends

Saying these things in private don't make them any better.

Regardless, I have no reason to believe your claims when Gagium and a number of others who were involved are still in the region and have shown no remorse for their actions. I'll continue monitoring things of course, and I do hope you are correct about things changing, I just have no reason to believe you are.

[The Tri State Area and Maine]

You would of course say that even if it were not true. I hope it is, and if I see enough evidence over time then I will of course change my position on this.

But I think a lot of people will be watching FCN very closely as a result of this resolution, and will definitely hold you to your word.

I also don't see Gagium or anyone else expressing public contrition for their own participation. Only say they should have stopped it sooner, but why do that, when they were participants?


For the record, I don't particularly care if this is a Liberation. I would support a condemnation with even more enthusiasm if one were offered, but this is the only proposal I've been offered a vote on. I would concur that there are other means to put pressure on FCN which should absolutely be utilised in these circumstances, and will be using some of them myself in future.

this whole thing was stupid to begin with. The SC crowd is just bored and taking out people they don't like. It's downright pathetic. I really hope this is the last liberation used as an ideological policing tool.

It's not really ideological in this case, it's just an argument over what to do over people saying homophobic and racist stuff, and whether people saying homophobic and racist stuff is something we find okay.

[Thuzbekistan]

this whole thing was stupid to begin with. The SC crowd is just bored and taking out people they don't like. It's downright pathetic. I really hope this is the last liberation used as an ideological policing tool.

It's not really ideological in this case, it's just an argument over what to do over people saying homophobic and racist stuff, and whether people saying homophobic and racist stuff is something we find okay.

It shouldn't matter what people say offsite.

[Cedoria]

It's not really ideological in this case, it's just an argument over what to do over people saying homophobic and racist stuff, and whether people saying homophobic and racist stuff is something we find okay.

It shouldn't matter what people say offsite.

Disagree. What people say offsite in regional comms does reflect the character and makeup of a region as much as a lot of what is said onsite.

[Jar Wattinree]

It shouldn't matter what people say offsite.

But it does.

[Gagium]

The proposal states that members of the FCN SAY this stuff currently, while this has ceased several months ago, thus the false accusation in the proposal is indeed alleged.

I did not write the proposal, can't speak for its claims. Not having access to FCN's Discord, I have no idea is such behavior still persists, and only your word and the word of a few others whom I have no reason to believe. Even if it doesn't, it's not like your own comments were all that long ago.


The evidence that's been shown so far is most definitely not alleged, you did it, as did many members of FCN, several of whom remain in the region, and in highly influential positions, including yourself.

If you’d wish, I’d be happy to telegram you the usage of the n-word from the last few months, along with an explanation of every example found that I just telegrammed to another delegate who asked for such evidence that the activity has been halted. Just send me a telegram and I’d be more than happy to send you the photos.

Nevertheless, as I see you later say in many posts, I indeed have, in several posts if I recall correctly, say I regret what I said, that I apologize for it, and that I am, and have been, against it for awhile now.

EDIT If anyone else wants a log of the words usage from the last several months, feel free to telegram me.

[Cedoria]

I did not write the proposal, can't speak for its claims. Not having access to FCN's Discord, I have no idea is such behavior still persists, and only your word and the word of a few others whom I have no reason to believe. Even if it doesn't, it's not like your own comments were all that long ago.


The evidence that's been shown so far is most definitely not alleged, you did it, as did many members of FCN, several of whom remain in the region, and in highly influential positions, including yourself.

If you’d wish, I’d be happy to telegram you the usage of the n-word from the last few months, along with an explanation of every example found that I just telegrammed to another delegate who asked for such evidence that the activity has been halted. Just send me a telegram and I’d be more than happy to send you the photos.

Nevertheless, as I see you later say in many posts, I indeed have, in several posts if I recall correctly, say I regret what I said, that I apologize for it, and that I am, and have been, against it for awhile now.

EDIT If anyone else wants a log of the words usage from the last several months, feel free to telegram me.

Let's hope all that is true.

[Sikhiadesh]

So I have not read much through the form but is there any relevant, non faulty evidence that the Federation of Conservative Nations is a "blatantly racist and homophobic" region. And also being "homophobic" is not something you should get mad about cause some of us have religious views and are devout. But anyways I just want to see some evidence on this.

[Hamstan]

If UCN just wants to up and raid FOCN, go ahead.

But using the Council to do that for you?

That is extremely low and sickens me to my core.

[Gagium]

It's not really ideological in this case, it's just an argument over what to do over people saying homophobic and racist stuff, and whether people saying homophobic and racist stuff is something we find okay.

It shouldn't matter what people say offsite.

It seems as if that’s the moderators approach to offsite comments, at least from what I’ve experienced, however it does indeed matter what people say offsite, especially on region-related discords. Of course, what matters and doesn’t matter is based on individuals and their personal beliefs, though I do believe that offsite messages do matter.

[Viridus]

this whole thing was stupid to begin with. The SC crowd is just bored and taking out people they don't like. It's downright pathetic. I really hope this is the last liberation used as an ideological policing tool.

It's not really used as ideological policing. We don't know who submitted the resolution, and FCN blames it on UCS, which is definitely not a Leftist region. For myself, I have no ideological beef with any Conservative region that I would want settled through the SC (Fascist regions are a different matter). This one I'm supporting because of FCN's behavior and the evidence I've seen of it, though I would have preferred the proposal go through full drafting and proper channels beforehand.

Well, Gagium did stop a lot sooner than the other culprits in the evidence, he saw the negative affects that it was having on the region and he even predicted stuff like this liberation proposal happening. But seriously, if you have a Discord account you really should check out our server. Sure there may be some joking around that others may not like, but nothing made intentionally to hurt people outside of the small group of people on Discord as the joking around is between friends

Saying these things in private don't make them any better.

Regardless, I have no reason to believe your claims when Gagium and a number of others who were involved are still in the region and have shown no remorse for their actions. I'll continue monitoring things of course, and I do hope you are correct about things changing, I just have no reason to believe you are.

Alright, but I disagree, Gagium has shown remorse multiple times on this thread alone saying that he does regret saying those things. Also, as the region's government operates on the Discord, any formal statement about this back then would be on there. Anyways, I'm fine with you not completely trusting me on this, before today we didn't even know each other. Thanks for talking with me though, it was fun but I'll be off for the rest of the day

[Cedoria]

So I have not read much through the form but is there any relevant, non faulty evidence that the Federation of Conservative Nations is a "blatantly racist and homophobic" region. And also being "homophobic" is not something you should get mad about cause some of us have religious views and are devout. But anyways I just want to see some evidence on this.

Telegram Kavagrad who has been passing around the evidence.

And yes, homophobia is something to be annoyed about. Religious views notwithstanding, but honestly that stuff is minor compared to the cesspool that came out of FCN.

If UCN just wants to up and raid FOCN, go ahead.

But using the Council to do that for you?

That is extremely low and sickens me to my core.

Are you as sickened by the behavior of those in FCN? If not, then what sickens you is probably not something anyone should worry about.

[Gagium]

If you’d wish, I’d be happy to telegram you the usage of the n-word from the last few months, along with an explanation of every example found that I just telegrammed to another delegate who asked for such evidence that the activity has been halted. Just send me a telegram and I’d be more than happy to send you the photos.

Nevertheless, as I see you later say in many posts, I indeed have, in several posts if I recall correctly, say I regret what I said, that I apologize for it, and that I am, and have been, against it for awhile now.

EDIT If anyone else wants a log of the words usage from the last several months, feel free to telegram me.

Let's hope all that is true.

You could always telegram me and see for yourself what I have to offer, unless you are afraid of evidence that goes against what you believe?

[Hamstan]

[

Are you as sickened by the behavior of those in FCN? If not, then what sickens you is probably not something anyone should worry about.

what sickens me is using a supposedly neutral body of the site for your own petty machinations. There is no honor in that.

and like i said before, unit I see direct evidence that FCN is secretly fascist, then they are not fascist. Conservative, yes. Fascist, no.

[Cedoria]

Let's hope all that is true.

You could always telegram me and see for yourself what I have to offer, unless you are afraid of evidence that goes against what you believe?

Not at all. Send me whatever you have.