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[DEFEATED/DISCARDED] Lib. Federation Of Conservative Nations

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Kuriko
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Democratic Socialists

[DEFEATED/DISCARDED] Lib. Federation Of Conservative Nations

Postby Kuriko » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:25 am

I'm not the author, nor involved in this resolution, but it seems likely to reach queue so I'm making a thread.

Nominee (region): Federation of Conservative Nations

Proposed by: Sonoraland

The World Assembly,

Clarifying the Federation of Conservative Nations is not Founderless as of now;

Horrified at the Region's tolerance and presence of blatantly racist and homophobic material behind closed doors;

Appalled that they portray themselves as "Conservative" so as to conceal their true identity;

Noting the Region has assisted KAISERREICH, Liberated by SC #245 in Military Operations such as on The Commie Confederacy and others;

Also Noting KAISERREICH's Army, notorious for it's own attempts to enforce their Fascist ideology on other regions, has joined the Army of Freedom, the raiding force of the FCN;

Abhorred by their attempts to eliminate ideologies they disagree with using raids;

Believing a Liberation would leave the region open to invasion after the Founder is gone;

Certain that this Liberation will warn other regions which portray themselves as "Conservative" when in reality embrace fascist ideals and accept these views within their hallowed halls.

Hereby Liberates Federation of Conservative Nations
Last edited by Wrapper on Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:42 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:28 am

In my personal opinion, having seen the evidence via telegram, I believe an offensive liberation is not the correct course in this instance. The more correct stance would be to blacklist the target region, and offending nations, and keep offensive libs to fascists and nazis.
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Consular
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Postby Consular » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:28 am

It's actually fairly well written but this liberation spam is getting out of hand.

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Kavagrad
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kavagrad » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:42 am

I've seen the evidence myself, I've heard the excuses both from involved in the behaviour, and those who claimed to oppose it, but defended the region anyway. This liberation is more than deserved. Offensive liberations aren't going to stop, we need to ensure that they're used the right way, and this is it.
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Caracasus
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Postby Caracasus » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:55 am

Can we all see the evidence? Unlike the COD, KR or NE where they handily admitted that they were fascists and anyone who cared to could check out their RMB/Telegram spam etc confirming this, this isn't a region that either seems to actively promote fascism on their WFE or elsewhere.

I'd really, really like offensive liberations to be confined to fascist regions - so I think there's a need to see some pretty damning evidence that they're fascists or at the very least have a lot of fascist types running unchecked by higher ups in their region to say whether or not they're fascists or providing a safe space for fascists.
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Armaros
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Postby Armaros » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:02 am

Oh god. I was all for the anti-fascist libs, but now everyone decides to try to liberate every group they hate.
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Kavagrad
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Postby Kavagrad » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:27 am

Caracasus wrote:Can we all see the evidence? Unlike the COD, KR or NE where they handily admitted that they were fascists and anyone who cared to could check out their RMB/Telegram spam etc confirming this, this isn't a region that either seems to actively promote fascism on their WFE or elsewhere.

I'd really, really like offensive liberations to be confined to fascist regions - so I think there's a need to see some pretty damning evidence that they're fascists or at the very least have a lot of fascist types running unchecked by higher ups in their region to say whether or not they're fascists or providing a safe space for fascists.

I don't believe that I can post links to the screenshots here, but I'll TG you what I have. I'm happy to give the same evidence to anybody else who hasn't yet seen it, upon request.
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New Waldensia
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Postby New Waldensia » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:28 am

Caracasus wrote:Can we all see the evidence? Unlike the COD, KR or NE where they handily admitted that they were fascists and anyone who cared to could check out their RMB/Telegram spam etc confirming this, this isn't a region that either seems to actively promote fascism on their WFE or elsewhere.

I'd really, really like offensive liberations to be confined to fascist regions - so I think there's a need to see some pretty damning evidence that they're fascists or at the very least have a lot of fascist types running unchecked by higher ups in their region to say whether or not they're fascists or providing a safe space for fascists.

The only self-proclaimed fascist we had left after a failed coup and helped found a new region.

Earlier this year, we helped an ally raid a fascist region. We may be right-wing, which is apparently a crime worthy of punishment to much of NS, but we absolutely are not, never have been, and never will be fascist.
Last edited by New Waldensia on Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Caracasus
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Postby Caracasus » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:28 am

Kavagrad wrote:
Caracasus wrote:Can we all see the evidence? Unlike the COD, KR or NE where they handily admitted that they were fascists and anyone who cared to could check out their RMB/Telegram spam etc confirming this, this isn't a region that either seems to actively promote fascism on their WFE or elsewhere.

I'd really, really like offensive liberations to be confined to fascist regions - so I think there's a need to see some pretty damning evidence that they're fascists or at the very least have a lot of fascist types running unchecked by higher ups in their region to say whether or not they're fascists or providing a safe space for fascists.

I don't believe that I can post links to the screenshots here, but I'll TG you what I have. I'm happy to give the same evidence to anybody else who hasn't yet seen it, upon request.


Cheers! I don't know (you'd have to check with the mods or someone first) but I wonder if it might be allowable provided you spoiler it?
As an editor I seam to spend an awful lot of thyme going threw issues and checking that they're no oblivious errars. Its a tough job but someone's got too do it!



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Kavagrad
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Postby Kavagrad » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:29 am

Caracasus wrote:
Kavagrad wrote:I don't believe that I can post links to the screenshots here, but I'll TG you what I have. I'm happy to give the same evidence to anybody else who hasn't yet seen it, upon request.


Cheers! I don't know (you'd have to check with the mods or someone first) but I wonder if it might be allowable provided you spoiler it?

If I remember the precedent set in the KReich thread correctly, it wouldn't be allowed, but I'm not 100% certain on that.
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Visionary Union
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Visionary Union » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:31 am

Kavagrad wrote:
Caracasus wrote:Can we all see the evidence? Unlike the COD, KR or NE where they handily admitted that they were fascists and anyone who cared to could check out their RMB/Telegram spam etc confirming this, this isn't a region that either seems to actively promote fascism on their WFE or elsewhere.

I'd really, really like offensive liberations to be confined to fascist regions - so I think there's a need to see some pretty damning evidence that they're fascists or at the very least have a lot of fascist types running unchecked by higher ups in their region to say whether or not they're fascists or providing a safe space for fascists.

I don't believe that I can post links to the screenshots here, but I'll TG you what I have. I'm happy to give the same evidence to anybody else who hasn't yet seen it, upon request.

I would like to see the evidence too. Also, my fellow members, don't you think that the amount of the liberation attempts have gotten out of hand?

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Armaros
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Postby Armaros » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:34 am

I've not seen the evidence either. If someone would be kind enough to tg me the evidence, that would be really appreciated.
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Kavagrad
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Postby Kavagrad » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:35 am

Visionary Union wrote:
Kavagrad wrote:I don't believe that I can post links to the screenshots here, but I'll TG you what I have. I'm happy to give the same evidence to anybody else who hasn't yet seen it, upon request.

I would like to see the evidence too.

Armaros wrote:I've not seen the evidence either. If someone would be kind enough to tg me the evidence, that would be really appreciated.

Gladly sent!
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Armaros
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Postby Armaros » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:41 am

Alright, after having reviewed the evidence, I think (if this ever comes to vote) I will support this. This shit is bad on many levels. I also encourage every region who holds relations with these people to cut relations.
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Cedoria
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Postby Cedoria » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:45 am

Armaros wrote:Alright, after having reviewed the evidence, I think (if this ever comes to vote) I will support this. This shit is bad on many levels. I also encourage every region who holds relations with these people to cut relations.

Indeed.

I am glad Secretary Kavagrad has provided the evidence within their disposal to support this Liberation. I encourage anybody to contact Secretary Kava for access to said evidence if they need convincing that this Liberation is required and necessary.

I too would not favour this were there not convincing evidence that such actions were necessary. Having seen such evidence, I fail to see how any unbiased reading of it could not lead to that conclusion.
Last edited by Cedoria on Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Crimsonfield
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Founded: Feb 26, 2018
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Postby Crimsonfield » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:54 am

Visionary Union wrote:
Kavagrad wrote:I don't believe that I can post links to the screenshots here, but I'll TG you what I have. I'm happy to give the same evidence to anybody else who hasn't yet seen it, upon request.

I would like to see the evidence too. Also, my fellow members, don't you think that the amount of the liberation attempts have gotten out of hand?

Don't worry, if you have or after you see the evidence you should be certain it was deserved. The horrifying material they have on there is absolutely appalling. In fact, i am certain FCN is worse than KAISERREICH when it comes to the evidence. Another thing is that KAISERREICH did sometimes attempt to deny their actions and say they are Centrists, yet FCN seems to say they are right wing.... but not fascist. Don't be deceived, the evidence proves otherwise. Should anyone want to see it, i am also available. Preferably via TG.

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Cedoria
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Postby Cedoria » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:56 am

Crimsonfield wrote:
Visionary Union wrote:I would like to see the evidence too. Also, my fellow members, don't you think that the amount of the liberation attempts have gotten out of hand?

Don't worry, if you have or after you see the evidence you should be certain it was deserved. The horrifying material they have on there is absolutely appalling. In fact, i am certain FCN is worse than KAISERREICH when it comes to the evidence. Another thing is that KAISERREICH did sometimes attempt to deny their actions and say they are Centrists, yet FCN seems to say they are right wing.... but not fascist. Don't be deceived, the evidence proves otherwise. Should anyone want to see it, i am also available. Preferably via TG.


Yeah... What I saw seemed worse then the KR stuff.
In real life I am a libertarian socialist/democratic socialist
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Likes: Freedom of speech, Freedom of Expression, Direct Democracy, Worker Owned Cooperatives, Secularism, Anti-Theism, Freedom of civil disobediance, Libertarian Socialism, Social equity for minorities.

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The Rhenish League
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Founded: Sep 14, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Rhenish League » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:58 am

Armaros wrote:Oh god. I was all for the anti-fascist libs, but now everyone decides to try to liberate every group they hate.

How unexpected ...

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Armaros
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Postby Armaros » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:59 am

Crimsonfield wrote:
Visionary Union wrote:I would like to see the evidence too. Also, my fellow members, don't you think that the amount of the liberation attempts have gotten out of hand?

Don't worry, if you have or after you see the evidence you should be certain it was deserved. The horrifying material they have on there is absolutely appalling. In fact, i am certain FCN is worse than KAISERREICH when it comes to the evidence. Another thing is that KAISERREICH did sometimes attempt to deny their actions and say they are Centrists, yet FCN seems to say they are right wing.... but not fascist. Don't be deceived, the evidence proves otherwise. Should anyone want to see it, i am also available. Preferably via TG.

Eh, wait a second. After I got the evidence, I got a tg from a native of FCN. They told me, that in fact, a number of the people in the evidence went over with you after you failed to stage a coup in FCN. These people include a self-proclaimed fascist, according to the native in question. After that, and another accusation against, this post of yours sounds a bit hypocritical.
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Visionary Union
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Visionary Union » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:59 am

After examining the evidence and communicating with FCN, I have come to a conclusion that they are truly an abhorrent region who deserves condemnation, but it appears that fascists view those as badges of honor, it appears that a liberation is indeed called for. Here's to hoping that it will be the last liberation in a while.
Last edited by Visionary Union on Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Cedoria
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Postby Cedoria » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:00 am

Visionary Union wrote:After examining the evidence *and* communicating with FCN, I have come to a conclusion that they are truly an abhorrent region who deserves condemnation, but it appears that fascists view those as badges of honor, it appears that a liberation is indeed called for. Here's to hoping that it will be the last liberation in a while.

For the record, I agree. I think the Liberation of CCD recently was deserved, and that this one is as well, but I do hope to see them used sparingly.
Last edited by Cedoria on Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
In real life I am a libertarian socialist/democratic socialist
★Comrade of the Commonwealth of Socialist States (CSS)★
Likes: Freedom of speech, Freedom of Expression, Direct Democracy, Worker Owned Cooperatives, Secularism, Anti-Theism, Freedom of civil disobediance, Libertarian Socialism, Social equity for minorities.

Dislikes: Neo-Conservatism, Neo-Liberalism, Stalinism, Capitalism, American Exceptionalism, Most world leaders, Religious bigotry, Despots of virtually any kind, Imperialism, Putinism, Economic Inequality, Identity Politics, Fascism and assorted far-right movements.



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Kavagrad
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Founded: Nov 22, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kavagrad » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:01 am

Armaros wrote:
Crimsonfield wrote:Don't worry, if you have or after you see the evidence you should be certain it was deserved. The horrifying material they have on there is absolutely appalling. In fact, i am certain FCN is worse than KAISERREICH when it comes to the evidence. Another thing is that KAISERREICH did sometimes attempt to deny their actions and say they are Centrists, yet FCN seems to say they are right wing.... but not fascist. Don't be deceived, the evidence proves otherwise. Should anyone want to see it, i am also available. Preferably via TG.

Eh, wait a second. After I got the evidence, I got a tg from a native of FCN. They told me, that in fact, a number of the people in the evidence went over with you after you failed to stage a coup in FCN. These people include a self-proclaimed fascist, according to the native in question. After that, and another accusation against, this post of yours sounds a bit hypocritical.

The vast number of people in the screenshots provided remain in FCN, including their Founder and Senate Speaker. I can't speak for Crimsonfield or UCS, but if there is such behaviour going on over there too, that should be looked into after FCN is dealt with, rather than allowing FCN to use it as an excuse or a way to deflect.
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Armaros
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Founded: Apr 06, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Armaros » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:03 am

Cedoria wrote:
Visionary Union wrote:After examining the evidence *and* communicating with FCN, I have come to a conclusion that they are truly an abhorrent region who deserves condemnation, but it appears that fascists view those as badges of honor, it appears that a liberation is indeed called for. Here's to hoping that it will be the last liberation in a while.

For the record, I agree. I think the Liberations recently have been deserved, and that this one is as well, but I do hope to see them used sparingly.

This. However, I think that in this case a condemnation will do. If the condemnation labels them as homophobic, fascist (or harbouring fascists) and more of that, I think many will be driven away and new players will hesitate to join. I'm not sure if a lib is needed here.
An average Jo.
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Cedoria
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Founded: Feb 22, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Cedoria » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:04 am

Armaros wrote:
Cedoria wrote:For the record, I agree. I think the Liberations recently have been deserved, and that this one is as well, but I do hope to see them used sparingly.

This. However, I think that in this case a condemnation will do. If the condemnation labels them as homophobic, fascist (or harbouring fascists) and more of that, I think many will be driven away and new players will hesitate to join. I'm not sure if a lib is needed here.


Trouble is that Condemnations generally get weaponised by the offending nations to mobilise more support and followers. I agree it would be ideal if there was something that we could do that wouldn't have the effect of essentially rewarding FCN, but I don't see that in any way possible except to do this.

The condemnation alone really wouldn't cover the level of some of the disgust I have at some of the material that's around.
In real life I am a libertarian socialist/democratic socialist
★Comrade of the Commonwealth of Socialist States (CSS)★
Likes: Freedom of speech, Freedom of Expression, Direct Democracy, Worker Owned Cooperatives, Secularism, Anti-Theism, Freedom of civil disobediance, Libertarian Socialism, Social equity for minorities.

Dislikes: Neo-Conservatism, Neo-Liberalism, Stalinism, Capitalism, American Exceptionalism, Most world leaders, Religious bigotry, Despots of virtually any kind, Imperialism, Putinism, Economic Inequality, Identity Politics, Fascism and assorted far-right movements.



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Caracasus
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Founded: Apr 23, 2015
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Caracasus » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:05 am

Wow.

Yeah, that's horrific. Stuff I'm not going to repeat here - antisemitism, racism and fantasising about killing black people and jews feature very, very heavily. I guess the question is how much of this the founder was aware of and what steps they took to stop it.
As an editor I seam to spend an awful lot of thyme going threw issues and checking that they're no oblivious errars. Its a tough job but someone's got too do it!



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