[PASSED] Liberate Confederation Of Corrupt Dictators

[Lord Dominator]

I wasn't going for a comeback, I was articulating my answer to Forestavia's question/position.

Here's the thing though. Today it's the fascists. Tomorrow the feminists. Next week the communists. Where does it end? What if you find that your region is the next region to be targeted in this way? If we don't stand for the fascists today, then the Security Council will be emboldened to target other regions, too. This is the reason why this fight is so important. It never stops with the first group that's singled out. It continues onto the next one and the next one.

Today it's just one terrible fascist region. Such an easy target. And it is so convenient to single them out. But what if you wake up one day and realize that you're region is next? What if you're the Security Council's next victim? One has to ask these forward thinking questions.

No we don't, because we went through this last April, and nothing of what you're suggesting has happened. Slippery slope arguments are complete bullshit.

[Prydania]

Exactly. The offensive liberations against KREICH and Nazi Europa didn't lead to offensive liberations against anyone else. The line, where it stopped, was clear. It started with fascists and it ends with fascists.

[Forestavia]

How quickly we forget the past...

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Have a heart and leave the fascists alone.

They want me, and others like me, dead.

So no.

You are accusing members of a region you have no dealings with of wanting you dead? Whatever gave you that idea.

[Lord Dominator]

How quickly we forget the past...

Forget the past what?

[Atzcapotzalco]

I wasn't going for a comeback, I was articulating my answer to Forestavia's question/position.

Here's the thing though. Today it's the fascists. Tomorrow the feminists. Next week the communists. Where does it end? What if you find that your region is the next region to be targeted in this way? If we don't stand for the fascists today, then the Security Council will be emboldened to target other regions, too. This is the reason why this fight is so important. It never stops with the first group that's singled out. It continues onto the next one and the next one.

Today it's just one terrible fascist region. Such an easy target. And it is so convenient to single them out. But what if you wake up one day and realize that you're region is next? What if you're the Security Council's next victim? One has to ask these forward thinking questions.

I agree with you and Tigrexia. Everyone should respect each other's differences and ideologies. It will make the galaxy a more peaceful and better place.

And remember! I am the senate!

[San Macalin]

How quickly we forget the past...

Ah yes, I too remember how we got into WWII to fight Nazi aggression and ended up butchering people who don't put pineapple on pizza.

[Atzcapotzalco]

How quickly we forget the past...

Forget the past what?

Yo, doo u even English bro?

[Prydania]

They want me, and others like me, dead.

So no.

You are accusing members of a region you have no dealings with of wanting you dead? Whatever gave you that idea.

They adhere to an ideology that considers me degenerate sub-human scum.

Or are you unfamiliar with "fascism" as a concept?

[San Macalin]

Here's the thing though. Today it's the fascists. Tomorrow the feminists. Next week the communists. Where does it end? What if you find that your region is the next region to be targeted in this way? If we don't stand for the fascists today, then the Security Council will be emboldened to target other regions, too. This is the reason why this fight is so important. It never stops with the first group that's singled out. It continues onto the next one and the next one.

Today it's just one terrible fascist region. Such an easy target. And it is so convenient to single them out. But what if you wake up one day and realize that you're region is next? What if you're the Security Council's next victim? One has to ask these forward thinking questions.

I agree with you and Tigrexia. Everyone should respect each other's differences and ideologies. It will make the galaxy a more peaceful and better place.

And remember! I am the senate!

That's slightly problematic when fascism explicitly doesn't respect people's differences and different ideologies.

[West Leas Oros 2]

I agree with you and Tigrexia. Everyone should respect each other's differences and ideologies. It will make the galaxy a more peaceful and better place.

And remember! I am the senate!

That's slightly problematic when fascism explicitly doesn't respect people's differences and different ideologies.

I wouldn’t consider that unique to fascism.

[Forestavia]

How quickly we forget the past...

Forget the past what?

I am so glad you asked.
This is an old post from last spring.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=437955&p=33675138#p33675138

If that's not enough let me remind you and others. The Red Fleet was targeted. Feminists were targeted. Arcem. Enadia. KAISERREICH. The flood gates were opened. The slippery slope is not a fallacy when it comes to fake politicized liberations in this chamber.

[Prydania]

If that's not enough let me remind you and others. The Red Fleet was targeted. Feminists were targeted. Arcem. Enadia. KAISERREICH. The flood gates were opened. The slippery slope is not a fallacy when it comes to fake politicized liberations in this chamber.

Every attempt to use offensive liberations against non-fascist regions failed.

Seems like proof that the slippery slope argument is a fallacy. The SC decided to use them against fascists, and only used them against fascists.

[San Macalin]

That's slightly problematic when fascism explicitly doesn't respect people's differences and different ideologies.

I wouldn’t consider that unique to fascism.

True, that's just because fascism is the ideology in question.

[West Leas Oros 2]

If that's not enough let me remind you and others. The Red Fleet was targeted. Feminists were targeted. Arcem. Enadia. KAISERREICH. The flood gates were opened. The slippery slope is not a fallacy when it comes to fake politicized liberations in this chamber.

Every attempt to use offensive liberations against non-fascist regions failed.

Seems like proof that the slippery slope argument is a fallacy. The SC decided to use them against fascists, and only used them against fascists.

Wouldn’t that just show bias within the SC?

[Forestavia]

I agree with you and Tigrexia. Everyone should respect each other's differences and ideologies. It will make the galaxy a more peaceful and better place.

And remember! I am the senate!

That's slightly problematic when fascism explicitly doesn't respect people's differences and different ideologies.

Kind of like the WA Security Council's so-called "liberations".

[Greater vakolicci haven]

You are accusing members of a region you have no dealings with of wanting you dead? Whatever gave you that idea.

They adhere to an ideology that considers me degenerate sub-human scum.

Or are you unfamiliar with "fascism" as a concept?

They're...probably more likely to be roleplayers, honestly. And I think you're talking about Nazism, rather than fascism. Different things.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

That's slightly problematic when fascism explicitly doesn't respect people's differences and different ideologies.

Kind of like the WA Security Council's so-called "liberations".

To fight intollerence, we must replicate it in ourselves.

Because that obviously makes perfect sense.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Forget the past what?

I am so glad you asked.
This is an old post from last spring.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=437955&p=33675138#p33675138

If that's not enough let me remind you and others. The Red Fleet was targeted. Feminists were targeted. Arcem. Enadia. KAISERREICH. The flood gates were opened. The slippery slope is not a fallacy when it comes to fake politicized liberations in this chamber.

That liberation attempt on Enadia may actually, weirdly, have gone to help us. It let us know that our ways really weren't good, and we've made ourselves a better, more respectable region for it. The drafter of the proposal even frequents Enadia from time to time now.

[Forestavia]

If that's not enough let me remind you and others. The Red Fleet was targeted. Feminists were targeted. Arcem. Enadia. KAISERREICH. The flood gates were opened. The slippery slope is not a fallacy when it comes to fake politicized liberations in this chamber.

Every attempt to use offensive liberations against non-fascist regions failed.

Seems like proof that the slippery slope argument is a fallacy. The SC decided to use them against fascists, and only used them against fascists.

Then we have a moral obligation to stand against the SC's prejudice toward fascists. We have to stand with the fascists. They need us, Prydania. We have to show the fascists how much love we have in our hearts. And we can do it together.
(I think I'm running out of steam.)

[Prydania]

1. I do find fascism abhorrent.

And yet you can't help but make principled stands to defend it.

That's why I'm fighting so hard against this so-called "liberation". I am definitely not an apologist for authoritarian ideology. And as a member of the WA, I don't want my world government acting fascist.

Standing up to fascism does not make you a fascist. I have no problem repeating this point btw.

2. Garbage argument? I think you missed the point. The one about fighting authoritarianism with authoritarianism. It IS a moral equivalency. The Security Council is acting like an authoritarian region.

Oh look! You acknowledged the above point. With your only counter being, essentially, "no you."
Sorry, there is no moral equivalency.

Someone who says "let's kill the gays, Jews, blacks, and all other deviants or non-Aryans" is NOT morally equivalent to the person who says "I will do whatever is necessary to stop you from killing those people."

3. I've defended many regions on this issue. Communism is abhorrent. I defended them. Feminism is abhorrent. I defended them. Give me some credit. This issue of fake liberating regions against their will is very near and dear to my heart. I have stood up for everyone even if I disagree with them. The proof is in that link in my signature. There is no moral vacuum.

Oh but there is a moral vacuum. You don't get to build a reputation off of standing up for morally abhorrent ideologies and then claim that you're the the moral one.

4. Condemnations are badges of dishonor. Look up the definition in the dictionary. The only badge of honor is the Commendation.

You're either very naive of the way dishonourable nations and regions have co-opted Condemnations or you're being wilfully obtuse.

5. Oh, my goodness no! The Security Council can't be trusted with the power it already has. Why would we add MORE teeth to Condemnations? This body has shown time and time again that it cannot handle the little bit of power that it already has.

People wanted something with actual teeth to deal with fascists. Condemnations were not providing that. So they turned to offensive liberations.
You can either try to convince the SC that Condemnations are still the preferable option, which you will not do unless they are changed to have consequences behind them, or you can stop whining about the players of the game adopting to a changing meta.

Have a heart and leave the fascists alone.

Again, fascism considers me sub-human scum worthy of nothing but death. Why should I just leave them alone?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Every attempt to use offensive liberations against non-fascist regions failed.

Seems like proof that the slippery slope argument is a fallacy. The SC decided to use them against fascists, and only used them against fascists.

Then we have a moral obligation to stand against the SC's prejudice toward fascists. We have to stand with the fascists. They need us, Prydania. We have to show the fascists how much love we have in our hearts. And we can do it together.
(I think I'm running out of steam.)

And I'm going out soon so won't be able to take up the slack. God damn it SC, I'm on holiday. Just stop already.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

1. I do find fascism abhorrent.

And yet you can't help but make principled stands to defend it.

That's why I'm fighting so hard against this so-called "liberation". I am definitely not an apologist for authoritarian ideology. And as a member of the WA, I don't want my world government acting fascist.

Standing up to fascism does not make you a fascist. I have no problem repeating this point btw.

2. Garbage argument? I think you missed the point. The one about fighting authoritarianism with authoritarianism. It IS a moral equivalency. The Security Council is acting like an authoritarian region.

Oh look! You acknowledged the above point. With your only counter being, essentially, "no you."
Sorry, there is no moral equivalency.

Someone who says "let's kill the gays, Jews, blacks, and all other deviants or non-Aryans" is NOT morally equivalent to the person who says "I will do whatever is necessary to stop you from killing those people."

3. I've defended many regions on this issue. Communism is abhorrent. I defended them. Feminism is abhorrent. I defended them. Give me some credit. This issue of fake liberating regions against their will is very near and dear to my heart. I have stood up for everyone even if I disagree with them. The proof is in that link in my signature. There is no moral vacuum.

Oh but there is a moral vacuum. You don't get to build a reputation off of standing up for morally abhorrent ideologies and then claim that you're the the moral one.

4. Condemnations are badges of dishonor. Look up the definition in the dictionary. The only badge of honor is the Commendation.

You're either very naive of the way dishonourable nations and regions have co-opted Condemnations or you're being wilfully obtuse.

5. Oh, my goodness no! The Security Council can't be trusted with the power it already has. Why would we add MORE teeth to Condemnations? This body has shown time and time again that it cannot handle the little bit of power that it already has.

People wanted something with actual teeth to deal with fascists. Condemnations were not providing that. So they turned to offensive liberations.
You can either try to convince the SC that Condemnations are still the preferable option, which you will not do unless they are changed to have consequences behind them, or you can stop whining about the players of the game adopting to a changing meta.

Have a heart and leave the fascists alone.

Again, fascism considers me sub-human scum worthy of nothing but death. Why should I just leave them alone?

Nazism considers me sub-human scum also, and we're on different sides. Perhaps I think that freedom of expression is a little more important than my feelings not getting hurt by mean internet people.

[Prydania]

They adhere to an ideology that considers me degenerate sub-human scum.

Or are you unfamiliar with "fascism" as a concept?

They're...probably more likely to be roleplayers, honestly. And I think you're talking about Nazism, rather than fascism. Different things.

Roleplayers who like to RP as people who "irl" marched my family to death camps illicit no sympathy from me OOC.

As far as Nazism and fascism goes? The differences ceased to be relevant in 1938 when Benito Mussolini enacted Nazi Germany's racial laws in Fascist Italy. At that point any attempt to argue that "fascism" need not have a genocidal racial component was a lost argument.

These days? Fascism and Nazism are practically indistinguishable from each other in modern politics. All active self-admitted fascist organizations hold true to some or all of Nazism's theories on race and the need for ethnic cleansing as a matter of policy.

Nazism considers me sub-human scum also, and we're on different sides. Perhaps I think that freedom of expression is a little more important than my feelings not getting hurt by mean internet people.

It says to me that you're naive to the point of self-danger, certainly.

Every attempt to use offensive liberations against non-fascist regions failed.

Seems like proof that the slippery slope argument is a fallacy. The SC decided to use them against fascists, and only used them against fascists.

Wouldn’t that just show bias within the SC?

It shows that the SC is biased against fascism, certainly. Which is not a bad thing.
Are the reasons why fascism is abhorrent lost on you?

Every attempt to use offensive liberations against non-fascist regions failed.

Seems like proof that the slippery slope argument is a fallacy. The SC decided to use them against fascists, and only used them against fascists.

Then we have a moral obligation to stand against the SC's prejudice toward fascists. We have to stand with the fascists. They need us, Prydania. We have to show the fascists how much love we have in our hearts. And we can do it together.
(I think I'm running out of steam.)

Nope, sorry. An ice cream cone has a better chance of surviving a tour through hell then you do of convincing me to stand up for fascists.

[Forestavia]

I'll be back tomorrow to fight some more. I have to go. I'm worn out. My arguments aren't even making sense to me anymore.