[PASSED] Liberate Confederation Of Corrupt Dictators

[Prydania]

These people don’t even respect the fact that I’m a human being.


A responsible world government sees fascism on the rise and does what it can to snuff it out.

Look in the mirror! You are the one who is using the world government as a weapon to trample on the regional sovereignty of regions you don't like. You don't respect the fact that this region has a vibrant community and has as much a right to exist as you do.

And no. A responsible world government practices restraint and acts only when necessary and even then with wisdom.

Standing up to an oppressive and genocidal ideology is not the same as adhering to an oppressive and genocidal ideology. The distinction seems lost on you, so I am happy to keep repeating it until it sinks in.

[Nova Trieste]

I'm not saying that, but if fascist RP is permitted and they're only RP as fascist I just can't see where the problem is

You don't see the issue with pretending to be murderous bigots? gotta be kidding me

Is it allowed to RP as a fascist nation? Yes
So what are you whining about

[Tigrexia]

You don't see the issue with pretending to be murderous bigots? gotta be kidding me

Is it allowed to RP as a fascist nation? Yes
So what are you whining about

Don't you know fun is evil? How dare you have fun!

[Forestavia]

Look in the mirror! You are the one who is using the world government as a weapon to trample on the regional sovereignty of regions you don't like. You don't respect the fact that this region has a vibrant community and has as much a right to exist as you do.

And no. A responsible world government practices restraint and acts only when necessary and even then with wisdom.

Standing up to an oppressive and genocidal ideology is not the same as adhering to an oppressive and genocidal ideology. The distinction seems lost on you, so I am happy to keep repeating it until it sinks in.

I just changed my flag. Check it out. It's a venn diagram!
Let's say that the people who "stand up to an oppressive and genocidal ideology" are represented by the left circle.
Let's also say that the people who "adhere to an oppressive and genocidal ideology" are represented by the right circle.
The red-shaded portion represents the people who use oppression and genocide to fight oppression and genocide.

The Security Council fits right inside of that red-shaded portion of the diagram. They are using authoritarianism to fight authoritarianism. This is why so many people on this thread keep bringing up the hypocrisy of the situation. The SC is being hypocritical, whether we want to admit that or not. Now, if we don't want to be hypocrites anymore then I suggest going back to using....

Condemnations!!!!!!!

[Tigrexia]

Standing up to an oppressive and genocidal ideology is not the same as adhering to an oppressive and genocidal ideology. The distinction seems lost on you, so I am happy to keep repeating it until it sinks in.

I just changed my flag. Check it out. It's a venn diagram!
Let's say that the people who "stand up to an oppressive and genocidal ideology" are represented by the left circle.
Let's also say that the people who "adhere to an oppressive and genocidal ideology" are represented by the right circle.
The red-shaded portion represents the people who use oppression and genocide to fight oppression and genocide.

The Security Council fits right inside of that red-shaded portion of the diagram. They are using authoritarianism to fight authoritarianism. This is why so many people on this thread keep bringing up the hypocrisy of the situation. The SC is being hypocritical, whether we want to admit that or not. Now, if we don't want to be hypocrites anymore then I suggest going back to using....

Condemnations!!!!!!!

An interesting way to look at this my good sir. A very interesting way indeed.

[Forestavia]

I just changed my flag. Check it out. It's a venn diagram!
Let's say that the people who "stand up to an oppressive and genocidal ideology" are represented by the left circle.
Let's also say that the people who "adhere to an oppressive and genocidal ideology" are represented by the right circle.
The red-shaded portion represents the people who use oppression and genocide to fight oppression and genocide.

The Security Council fits right inside of that red-shaded portion of the diagram. They are using authoritarianism to fight authoritarianism. This is why so many people on this thread keep bringing up the hypocrisy of the situation. The SC is being hypocritical, whether we want to admit that or not. Now, if we don't want to be hypocrites anymore then I suggest going back to using....

Condemnations!!!!!!!

An interesting way to look at this my good sir. A very interesting way indeed.

Thank you!

[Tigrexia]

An interesting way to look at this my good sir. A very interesting way indeed.

Thank you!

No problem. It's nice to see some decency towards one another.

[Lord Dominator]

You don't see the issue with pretending to be murderous bigots? gotta be kidding me

Is it allowed to RP as a fascist nation? Yes
So what are you whining about

And yet, the region advertises itself as somewhere for fascists to congregate, and maintains an embassy with Nazi Europa which is most certainly not rping.

The Security Council fits right inside of that red-shaded portion of the diagram. They are using authoritarianism to fight authoritarianism. This is why so many people on this thread keep bringing up the hypocrisy of the situation. The SC is being hypocritical, whether we want to admit that or not.

Because removing the ability for the delegate and ROs to put a password on the region is on the same scale as being a fascist

Now, if we don't want to be hypocrites anymore then I suggest going back to using....

Condemnations!!!!!!!

No

[Lord Dominator]

Oh, and just in general, I'll note that this thread really isn't going to make a difference on how the vote turns out, no matter how much you argue

[Tigrexia]

Oh, and just in general, I'll note that this thread really isn't going to make a difference on how the vote turns out, no matter how much you argue

Doesn't mean we'll stop.

[Forestavia]

The Security Council fits right inside of that red-shaded portion of the diagram. They are using authoritarianism to fight authoritarianism. This is why so many people on this thread keep bringing up the hypocrisy of the situation. The SC is being hypocritical, whether we want to admit that or not.

Because removing the ability for the delegate and ROs to put a password on the region is on the same scale as being a fascist

Now, if we don't want to be hypocrites anymore then I suggest going back to using....
Condemnations!!!!!!!

No

Removing the ability of a sovereign region to govern itself its own way IS fascist. You are taking away their ability to defend themselves and their homeland with a password in the event that the worst happens. It is on the same scale because we are interfering in the internal affairs of a sovereign region. We're interfering with the way they may govern themselves in the event that their founder, Jocospor goes inactive. The residents of that region deserve to have the option to password their region. They deserve that right of self-determination. Who are we to take that away from them? I'll tell you what we are. We are the authoritarians. We are the fascists. We are the big bad Security Council that is so full of itself that we think we have the right to undermine the safety of another region and the nations who reside within it.

The password is the equivalent of a military defense weapon for regions in this game. Now for a real life example. You think Hitler was okay with allowing nations to keep their own military weapons outside of his control? If you're going to conquer someone, then you're going to take out their defenses.

The Security Council is the aggressor. We are the invaders. We are the ones who are taking out the last resort that this region has to defend itself. We are the ones who are taking the first shot. And that is wrong. Our oppression of them is not too far from fascism itself.

[Lord Dominator]

Oh, and just in general, I'll note that this thread really isn't going to make a difference on how the vote turns out, no matter how much you argue

Doesn't mean we'll stop.

Okay

[Forestavia]

Oh, and just in general, I'll note that this thread really isn't going to make a difference on how the vote turns out, no matter how much you argue

Doesn't mean we'll stop.

[Prydania]

Standing up to an oppressive and genocidal ideology is not the same as adhering to an oppressive and genocidal ideology. The distinction seems lost on you, so I am happy to keep repeating it until it sinks in.

I just changed my flag. Check it out. It's a venn diagram!
Let's say that the people who "stand up to an oppressive and genocidal ideology" are represented by the left circle.
Let's also say that the people who "adhere to an oppressive and genocidal ideology" are represented by the right circle.
The red-shaded portion represents the people who use oppression and genocide to fight oppression and genocide.

The Security Council fits right inside of that red-shaded portion of the diagram. They are using authoritarianism to fight authoritarianism. This is why so many people on this thread keep bringing up the hypocrisy of the situation.

Nope. Sorry. This is a garbage argument. Fighting against oppression and genocide is not the moral equivalent to actually engaging in oppression and genocide.

Your arguments attempting to create a moral equivalency between the two are staggeringly empty. At best you're being incredibly naive. At worst it's you accepting a role as a fascist apologist. Where you fall in that spectrum I'm unsure, but regardless? I find your argument flawed and unconvincing.

I cannot help you if you fail to understand why people find fascism abhorrent.

The SC is being hypocritical, whether we want to admit that or not.

You know what I find hypocritical? That you, and others like you, paint yourselves as moral crusaders on this issue. Yet the only time you lot ever bothers to make a grand moral stand is when it comes to defending fascism.

If you can only ever bother to stand up for your supposedly beloved ideals in the name of an ideology that is opposed to said ideals? Then you are in fact dealing with a moral vacuum on your end.

Now, if we don't want to be hypocrites anymore then I suggest going back to using....

Condemnations!!!!!!!

Condemnations are fundamentally broken, as they have no gameplay effect. They are used as badges of honour.
This, at the very least, has consequences attached to it.

If you feel so strongly about this? I advise you to petition the Admins and see what can be done as far as adding actual consequences to Condemnations. If Condemnations had teeth to them? We'd be more willing to use them in cases such as this.

[Prydania]

You don't see the issue with pretending to be murderous bigots? gotta be kidding me

Is it allowed to RP as a fascist nation? Yes
So what are you whining about

People are allowed to RP as a fascist nation.

The thing is though, that this goes both ways. People are allowed to RP as fascists, and others are allowed to RP a response to fascism. You may consider this resolution a RP response to CCD RPing fascists.

You can RP however you like, but that does not free you from the consequences of that RP. This is the consequence.

But I guess I should not expect much from people who, unlike myself, have never experienced true fascism irl

You really don't want to go there man.

[Tigrexia]

Is it allowed to RP as a fascist nation? Yes
So what are you whining about

People are allowed to RP as a fascist nation.

The thing is though, that this goes both ways. People are allowed to RP as fascists, and others are allowed to RP a response to fascism. You may consider this resolution a RP response to CCD RPing fascists.

You can RP however you like, but that does not free you from the consequences of that RP. This is the consequence.

But I guess I should not expect much from people who, unlike myself, have never experienced true fascism irl

You really don't want to go there man.

But this isn't an RP response. Since you are forcing them to have no defense. That is improper RP. You can't say a Game mechanic is an RP response. You like your RP?

Annexation or War? Ooh an RP response.

An actual proper one. Not using a game mechanic to weaken your enemy. RP 101 with your Supreme Leader, Ghost Tigrex. And it is free. Congratulations!

[Lord Dominator]

What they rp is besides the point when they explicitly label the region as fascist, and maintain embassies with at least one region that most assuredly isn't rping any Nazi/Fascist behaviour within.

[Prydania]

But this isn't an RP response.

Says who? You?

The WA has been a setting and tool for RP since its foundation.

[Forestavia]

Nope. Sorry. This is a garbage argument. Fighting against oppression and genocide is not the moral equivalent to actually engaging in oppression and genocide.

Your arguments attempting to create a moral equivalency between the two are staggeringly empty. At best you're being incredibly naive. At worst it's you accepting a role as a fascist apologist. Where you fall in that spectrum I'm unsure, but regardless? I find your argument flawed and unconvincing.

I cannot help you if you fail to understand why people find fascism abhorrent.

The SC is being hypocritical, whether we want to admit that or not.

You know what I find hypocritical? That you, and others like you, paint yourselves as moral crusaders on this issue. Yet the only time you lot ever bothers to make a grand moral stand is when it comes to defending fascism.

If you can only ever bother to stand up for your supposedly beloved ideals in the name of an ideology that is opposed to said ideals? Then you are in fact dealing with a moral vacuum on your end.

Now, if we don't want to be hypocrites anymore then I suggest going back to using....

Condemnations!!!!!!!

Condemnations are fundamentally broken, as they have no gameplay effect. They are used as badges of honour.
This, at the very least, has consequences attached to it.

If you feel so strongly about this? I advise you to petition the Admins and see what can be done as far as adding actual consequences to Condemnations. If Condemnations had teeth to them? We'd be more willing to use them in cases such as this.

1. I do find fascism abhorrent. That's why I'm fighting so hard against this so-called "liberation". I am definitely not an apologist for authoritarian ideology. And as a member of the WA, I don't want my world government acting fascist.
2. Garbage argument? I think you missed the point. The one about fighting authoritarianism with authoritarianism. It IS a moral equivalency. The Security Council is acting like an authoritarian region.
3. I've defended many regions on this issue. Communism is abhorrent. I defended them. Feminism is abhorrent. I defended them. Give me some credit. This issue of fake liberating regions against their will is very near and dear to my heart. I have stood up for everyone even if I disagree with them. The proof is in that link in my signature. There is no moral vacuum. I would rather live in a world where a region can behave badly than in a world where the world government can behave badly. So really there is no moral equivalency because the authoritarianism of the WA is way worse than the authoritarianism of a single region.
4. Condemnations are badges of dishonor. Look up the definition in the dictionary. The only badge of honor is the Commendation.
5. Oh, my goodness no! The Security Council can't be trusted with the power it already has. Why would we add MORE teeth to Condemnations? This body has shown time and time again that it cannot handle the little bit of power that it already has.

Have a heart and leave the fascists alone.

[Lord Dominator]

Have a heart and leave the fascists alone.

No

[Sefy the Great]

Have a heart and leave the fascists alone.

No

you forgot the "you" at the end there.

[Prydania]

Have a heart and leave the fascists alone.

They want me, and others like me, dead.

So no.

[Tigrexia]

Have a heart and leave the fascists alone.

No

Yes

[Lord Dominator]

No

you forgot the "you" at the end there.

I wasn't going for a comeback, I was articulating my answer to Forestavia's question/position.

[Forestavia]

you forgot the "you" at the end there.

I wasn't going for a comeback, I was articulating my answer to Forestavia's question/position.

Here's the thing though. Today it's the fascists. Tomorrow the feminists. Next week the communists. Where does it end? What if you find that your region is the next region to be targeted in this way? If we don't stand for the fascists today, then the Security Council will be emboldened to target other regions, too. This is the reason why this fight is so important. It never stops with the first group that's singled out. It continues onto the next one and the next one.

Today it's just one terrible fascist region. Such an easy target. And it is so convenient to single them out. But what if you wake up one day and realize that you're region is next? What if you're the Security Council's next victim? One has to ask these forward thinking questions.