[PASSED] Liberate Confederation Of Corrupt Dictators

[Caracasus]

*Stands atop soap box*
This is the biggest mistake this body has ever engaged in. Of course no reasonable person would say that fascism or communism or any other such ideology is wonderful. They are terrible ideologies. But what we are doing here in this chamber, passing offensive neoliberations so that we can "liberate" a region against its will is shameful. I will not stand for these. Leave these natives alone!

Jocospor's region is composed of nearly 489 nations. This large body of nations could be effected in the event that Jocospor goes inactive. We are setting them up for an invasion. What we are doing in this chamber, once again- just like last spring, is we are warzone creating. We aren't liberating anyone, this is warzone creation plain and simple.

Nazi Europa contains 132 nations. KAISERREICH contains 212 nations. Add it all up and we are looking at targeting three regions containing a total of about 833 nations. So what's the next step? When these founders cease to exist the Security Council will wink and nod at R/D forces who are willing to conquer these regions. And then what? We, the nations of the Security Council, will then create the largest diaspora of fascist nations the world has ever seen. We won't just be dealing with fascism in three large regions. We'll be dealing with it in our own regions!!!

Respect the regional sovereignty and native rights of these nations and regions and vote against this fake liberation. We shouldn't be wasting our time with offensive neoliberations because they aren't liberations at all. They're warzone creations and when the day inevitably comes when these founders die off, we will be seeing nearly 833 nations plunged into a needless war that this body so selfishly instigated.

We need to get our act together and act like a respectable world government.

Well I can put some of your fears to rest. Turns out that the diasporia from toxic communities do not, in fact, make things more toxic when their communities are destroyed. Quite the opposite in fact. Things get less toxic. Perhaps because they no longer have a safe space where their views go unnchallenged.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... 9gJm_a3obH

And no, for the umpteenth time, taking action to stop fascists does not make you as bad as the fascists.

[Yuretichia]

*Stands atop soap box*
This is the biggest mistake this body has ever engaged in. Of course no reasonable person would say that fascism or communism or any other such ideology is wonderful. They are terrible ideologies. But what we are doing here in this chamber, passing offensive neoliberations so that we can "liberate" a region against its will is shameful. I will not stand for these. Leave these natives alone!

Jocospor's region is composed of nearly 489 nations. This large body of nations could be effected in the event that Jocospor goes inactive. We are setting them up for an invasion. What we are doing in this chamber, once again- just like last spring, is we are warzone creating. We aren't liberating anyone, this is warzone creation plain and simple.

Nazi Europa contains 132 nations. KAISERREICH contains 212 nations. Add it all up and we are looking at targeting three regions containing a total of about 833 nations. So what's the next step? When these founders cease to exist the Security Council will wink and nod at R/D forces who are willing to conquer these regions. And then what? We, the nations of the Security Council, will then create the largest diaspora of fascist nations the world has ever seen. We won't just be dealing with fascism in three large regions. We'll be dealing with it in our own regions!!!

Respect the regional sovereignty and native rights of these nations and regions and vote against this fake liberation. We shouldn't be wasting our time with offensive neoliberations because they aren't liberations at all. They're warzone creations and when the day inevitably comes when these founders die off, we will be seeing nearly 833 nations plunged into a needless war that this body so selfishly instigated.

We need to get our act together and act like a respectable world government.

Well I can put some of your fears to rest. Turns out that the diasporia from toxic communities do not, in fact, make things more toxic when their communities are destroyed. Quite the opposite in fact. Things get less toxic. Perhaps because they no longer have a safe space where their views go unnchallenged.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... 9gJm_a3obH

And no, for the umpteenth time, taking action to stop fascists does not make you as bad as the fascists.

You may not be as bad as the fascists, but you are getting rid of anyone that could oppose you as a large region. And that is authoritarian.

[Caracasus]

Well I can put some of your fears to rest. Turns out that the diasporia from toxic communities do not, in fact, make things more toxic when their communities are destroyed. Quite the opposite in fact. Things get less toxic. Perhaps because they no longer have a safe space where their views go unnchallenged.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... 9gJm_a3obH

And no, for the umpteenth time, taking action to stop fascists does not make you as bad as the fascists.

You may not be as bad as the fascists, but you are getting rid of anyone that could oppose you as a large region. And that is authoritarian.

Nope. Afraid not. If I or LD (another Forest resident) wanted to get rid of opposition, we'd aim higher. Regions in our league. Gay for instance. Or Yddgrasil. Then we'd go after the bigger regions, Europe or The Communist Bloc.

This is literally just attempting to get rid of fascists at some point in the future.

[Prydania]

Fascists don't want or believe in free speech.

But we do, so why you are asking me to take a Fascist action to fight Fascism?

Standing up to genocidal politics is not the same as adhering to genocidal politics.

It's not a "liberation", it's imperialism and flies in the face of both freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. I'm neither a fascist nor a friend of fascists, but to be honest when people pull stunts like this I can't help but sympathize for them.

Then you’re full of it. If you sympathize with an ideology that advocates for genocide and oppression? You’re a friend of genocide and oppression.

How ironic that those who are against persecution are all for it when it's against people they don't like, hm?

Again, opposing genocidal politics is not the same as adhering to genocidal politics.

If you think this is an acceptable method of fighting fascism then I got news for you: you've become what you fight.

lol no. See above.

Respect the regional sovereignty and native rights of these nations and regions...

These people don’t even respect the fact that I’m a human being.

We need to get our act together and act like a respectable world government.

A responsible world government sees fascism on the rise and does what it can to snuff it out.

[Yuretichia]

from the Post above ^^^^

"Then you’re full of it. If you sympathize with an ideology that advocates for genocide and oppression? You’re a friend of genocide and oppression."


That's like saying, I sympathize with this, but I must immediately support it because logic says so.

[Prydania]

from the Post above ^^^^

"Then you’re full of it. If you sympathize with an ideology that advocates for genocide and oppression? You’re a friend of genocide and oppression."


That's like saying, I sympathize with this, but I must immediately support it because logic says so.

I’m just sick of the “well I’m no fascist but...” arguments.
At this point? No. Fascism is a fundamental danger to democracy, human dignity, and life itself.
These “totally not fascists” who can only manage the moral fortitude to take a “principled stand” when it’s to stand up for fascist safe spaces do not impress me.

[Imperium Anglorum]

FOR is winning the vote. If anyone opposes the FOR position, they hate democracy because they think that the majority should not win. To claim that the majority's actions are authoritarian is authoritarian because you are defaming the will of the people, who are voting in favour of the proposition. FOR the people, to the honour of our ancestors, out.

Also, after they got called out on it and still no campaign spam? I'm really agreeing with Caracasus. CCD's got cash flow problems.

[New Bremerton]

IC:

Voted FOR because New Bremerton is against any form of totalitarianism regardless of ideology, to the point of supporting military interventions abroad, particularly in cases involving genocide. The WA should not be friendly to such regimes in the first place. In the interest of fairness, however, we firmly believe that communist and theocratic regions should also be liberated. We can't afford to be hypocrites now and only go after far-right regions while turning a blind eye to communists and religious extremists. The question should simply be one of freedom vs tyranny, not fascism vs liberalism, conservatism vs communism or secularism vs theocracy.

OOC:

According to Merriam-Webster:

fascism noun
fas·cism | \ ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi- \
Definition of Fascism
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
early instances of army fascism and brutality
—J. W. Aldridge

I was going by the second definition of fascism in the sense of political repression, which would presumably include communist and neoliberal dictatorships such as that of Mao and Pinochet respectively during the Cold War, when I had my non-WA sockpuppet nation (Longterror) join the CCD, believing it to be open to corrupt dictatorships of all ideologies or none. The CCD just so happened to be (and still is) the most high-profile, non-democratic region at the time. Longterror is a fantasy-based nation that is inhabited by demons, ghouls and undead, as well as a handful of human stragglers attempting to eke out a precarious existence, and features a lava-scorched, apocalyptic landscape. Come to think of it, Longterror appears to be both fascist AND communist at the same time, and thus cannot be so easily pigeonholed or labeled as a "fascist" state in the traditional sense. It is also a repressive theocracy and an apocalyptic death cult with ever-expanding borders. Ethnic and religious minorities are oppressed in Longterror along fascist lines, but the state owns all property along communist lines. The state religion is adhered to under pain of death (true death for undead) along medieval theocratic lines. Longterror could just as easily be a member of a region that espouses communism if it so chooses. The horseshoe theory of political extremism (the idea that the far-left and far-right are merely two sides of the same coin) clearly holds true in Longterror.

There is no doubt that such a nation clearly doesn't reflect my actual views. In fact, it represents everything I abhor in real life. If the CCD is indeed destroyed by raiders, I can simply move Longterror to another non-democratic region with nothing to lose. Boo hoo if WA members of the CCD lose their endorsements or influence. They can simply create a new region or join an existing one. Their autocratic nations are not going to CTE overnight merely due to being expelled to the Rejected Realms. Again, I don't care about the ideology, merely the fact that members of the CCD oppress their own people and deserve to be punished for their abhorrent treatment of their own citizens, and what better way to do so than by liberating the region. This is why, aside from the rule limiting WA membership to only one nation per user, Longterror is not a member of the WA.

[Yuretichia]

FOR is winning the vote. If anyone opposes the FOR position, they hate democracy because they think that the majority should not win. To claim that the majority's actions are authoritarian is authoritarian because you are defaming the will of the people, who are voting in favour of the proposition. FOR the people, to the honour of our ancestors, out.

Also, after they got called out on it and still no campaign spam? I'm really agreeing with Caracasus. CCD's got cash flow problems.

With this logic, the US Democratic party isnt democratic becasue it doesnt have the majority in Congress

[Southen Mark]

OOC
Looks like now were going to be raided for just having different opinions/idealogies then others.

Oh man,both sad, and ironic. This is my last post on this thread since i cant watch this anymore.

[Lord Dominator]

FOR is winning the vote. If anyone opposes the FOR position, they hate democracy because they think that the majority should not win. To claim that the majority's actions are authoritarian is authoritarian because you are defaming the will of the people, who are voting in favour of the proposition. FOR the people, to the honour of our ancestors, out.

Also, after they got called out on it and still no campaign spam? I'm really agreeing with Caracasus. CCD's got cash flow problems.

With this logic, the US Democratic party isnt democratic becasue it doesnt have the majority in Congress

Perhaps, except that the Democratic Party is a name, not an ideology

[Caracasus]

FOR is winning the vote. If anyone opposes the FOR position, they hate democracy because they think that the majority should not win. To claim that the majority's actions are authoritarian is authoritarian because you are defaming the will of the people, who are voting in favour of the proposition. FOR the people, to the honour of our ancestors, out.

Also, after they got called out on it and still no campaign spam? I'm really agreeing with Caracasus. CCD's got cash flow problems.

I wouldn't worry too much about their finances... I have it on good authority that should the Viceroy clean their bedroom and mow the front garden they'll have enough pocket money to fund a counter campaign by tomorrow lunchtime.

[The Rhenish League]

FOR is winning the vote. If anyone opposes the FOR position, they hate democracy because they think that the majority should not win.

So I'm anti-democratic because I used my vote in a democratic assembly to vote against? Interesting, tell me more.

[Yuretichia]

With this logic, the US Democratic party isnt democratic becasue it doesnt have the majority in Congress

Perhaps, except that the Democratic Party is a name, not an ideology

Thats not the point this person is saying that anyone that doesnt go along with majority is automatically nondemocratic. I used the DFL as an example of a minority that doesnt support the majority.

[Prydania]

FOR is winning the vote. If anyone opposes the FOR position, they hate democracy because they think that the majority should not win. To claim that the majority's actions are authoritarian is authoritarian because you are defaming the will of the people, who are voting in favour of the proposition. FOR the people, to the honour of our ancestors, out.

Also, after they got called out on it and still no campaign spam? I'm really agreeing with Caracasus. CCD's got cash flow problems.

With this logic, the US Democratic party isnt democratic becasue it doesnt have the majority in Congress

The US has regaulrly scheduled elections. The Democrats don’t have a majority now but they will have the opportunity to campaign and attempt to gain one. And should they succeed? The Republicans will
have a chance to regain the majority in the next election.

Here you’re free to draft a proposal to repeal this resolution should it pass. You will have your attempt to “win a majority” if you will. As of now though? It seems as if the majority of the people want an offensive liberation slapped on the CCD.
Which means you cannot call that decision autocratic.

[Cosmopolitan borovan]

The most honored ambassador from the illustrious nation of Neontica again enters the Assembly Hall to address the dignitaries present. She has a cellphone in her hand and anxiously flips through her text messages. She nervously clears her throat and leans in to the microphone to speak.

"Most distinguished ladies and gentlemen of the Assembly, I bring forth yet another question from our remarkable Leader. Lest I inadvertently misrepresent his words, I will read his text message verbatim: ' Dafuq?' Now, if I may expound upon his question and get to the heart of our confusion, I believe the people of Neontica are having a hard time distinguishing between the two sides. With all due respect, the speakers here, as respectable as they are, have not done a sufficient job of explaining why they are correct in this action. The two primary reasons seem to be 'the region angered us with their self-commendation, so this is a suitable punishment' and 'we find their method of government distasteful.' The former reason is petty and fails to show how you are any better than the region you seek to punish. The latter reason is irrelevant, as regions and nations should be free to lead their people as they please. In fact, a core aspect of fascism, which many of you claim to deplore, is the forcible suppression of opposition. Is that not what this is? From my vantage point, you have failed to present yourselves as any sort of moral superiors and instead just seem like the opposite side of the same coin. So, our question is simply: what makes one side better than the other?"

She curtsies politely.

"Thank you for your time."

"Ambassador a female using foul language and then curtsying? That's quite an entrance"

[Crimsonfield]

I am completely against this garbage proposal. Liberations are meant for raided regions, not to be used as a political tool against people you disagree with. Adding to all of this, the region has an active founder and i really do not see the point of this Liberation. I advise all to vote AGAINST.

[Hamstan]

The Vice-Chancellor of Hamstan, Gerald McPork, steps into the Council Chamber surrounded by the Chancellors Guard, gleaming in their Prussian style uniforms

"The Parliament of Hamstan, the Marshall of Hamstan, the Minister of War, and the Chancellor all agree to this action. We cannot forget that these nations are dictatorships who deny moral and civil rights to their people. We must free these peoples from the yoke of oppression and reinstate the rights of free speech, free religion, and freedom of the press. I urge the nations of the council not to stand idly to such oppression. As the Marshall said, the Hamstanian army is weak, but united in the face of tyranny, we will win the day. Libertas omnibus!

[Cosmopolitan borovan]

The Vice-Chancellor of Hamstan, Gerald McPork, steps into the Council Chamber surrounded by the Chancellors Guard, gleaming in their Prussian style uniforms

"The Parliament of Hamstan, the Marshall of Hamstan, the Minister of War, and the Chancellor all agree to this action. We cannot forget that these nations are dictatorships who deny moral and civil rights to their people. We must free these peoples from the yoke of oppression and reinstate the rights of free speech, free religion, and freedom of the press. I urge the nations of the council not to stand idly to such oppression. As the Marshall said, the Hamstanian army is weak, but united in the face of tyranny, we will win the day. Libertas omnibus!

"I disagree a little here. Sometimes dictatorships are a necessary path. If you find that the capitalist pigs or a bunch of corrupt officials creating a stagnant state for the country, it's worth sacrificing the political process"

He then drinks " But obviously not at the expense of full denial of civil rights and human rights abuse just a need to prod the people to toe the line."

[Hamstan]

"I disagree a little here. Sometimes dictatorships are a necessary path. If you find that the capitalist pigs or a bunch of corrupt officials creating a stagnant state for the country, it's worth sacrificing the political process."

"That may be true of your nation, but Hamstan upholds democracy no matter the cost. It does not matter if our nation one day abandons communism for capitalism or abandons Hammism for Christianity. What matters is democracy. Should the day come when Hamstan is ruled by a dictator, be them foreign or domestic, I guarantee the people of Hamstan will resist with all of their vigor. It would be a hypocrisy for us to stand by and watch as millions suffer at the hands of dictators while we are free. It is time for us to stop being hypocrites and do soothing about it"

[Communaccord]

The Communaccordian delegation doesn’t usually give a damn about the security council, nor the whole issue of raiding, defending, and liberation. However, in particularly outstanding instances of overreach, it is dutiful to address present absurdities.

Under the current precedent for what necessitates liberation, and taking into account the intended course of action and outcome of such resolutions, it will be found that this resolution falls laughably short in every regard.

There is no barrier to free entry, nor occupation by foreign forces, rather a prevelance of an ideology and a tolerance of which the author of this proposal unabashedly finds intolerable and sees fit to be expunged. While this sentiment may be shared by many if not a solid majority of those present, a liberation is hardly an appropriate course of action, as there are no foreign forces to be expunged, nor native residents seeking a return.

If anything, a condemnation is in order, however this resolution is entirely uncalled for, and if it passes, a repeal will be in short order.

[Yuretichia]

The Communaccordian delegation doesn’t usually give a damn about the security council, nor the whole issue of raiding, defending, and liberation. However, in particularly outstanding instances of overreach, it is dutiful to address present absurdities.

Under the current precedent for what necessitates liberation, and taking into account the intended course of action and outcome of such resolutions, it will be found that this resolution falls laughably short in every regard.

There is no barrier to free entry, nor occupation by foreign forces, rather a prevelance of an ideology and a tolerance of which the author of this proposal unabashedly finds intolerable and sees fit to be expunged. While this sentiment may be shared by many if not a solid majority of those present, a liberation is hardly an appropriate course of action, as there are no foreign forces to be expunged, nor native residents seeking a return.

If anything, a condemnation is in order, however this resolution is entirely uncalled for, and if it passes, a repeal will be in short order.

^^^

[Sefy the Great]

FOR is winning the vote. If anyone opposes the FOR position, they hate democracy because they think that the majority should not win. To claim that the majority's actions are authoritarian is authoritarian because you are defaming the will of the people, who are voting in favour of the proposition. FOR the people, to the honour of our ancestors, out.

Also, after they got called out on it and still no campaign spam? I'm really agreeing with Caracasus. CCD's got cash flow problems.

while i agree with you Imperium,you must've read up on the golden book again.
what golden book? why, this one:

[Jar Wattinree]

FOR is winning the vote. If anyone opposes the FOR position, they hate democracy because they think that the majority should not win. To claim that the majority's actions are authoritarian is authoritarian because you are defaming the will of the people, who are voting in favour of the proposition. FOR the people, to the honour of our ancestors, out.

They can oppose it just fine, as is demonstrated with their WA vote, but the FOR will certainly ensure it'll pass. Saying that voting against the majority means you're voting against democracy is dishonest; if anything, not voting with the majority means democracy is still alive and kicking.

Apart from the fact that this proposal is the liberation of an obnoxious region (particular a fascist one), would you say the same on any other proposal? Legitimately curious. Otherwise, the rhetoric is overblown and one-sided. Sometimes, the "will of the people" can be interpreted as "tyranny by the people". But hey, just alienate the people who do vote AGAINST on other principles apart from "supporting muh fascism", that's totally a good idea.

[Prydania]

...if it passes, a repeal will be in short order.

Near-identical resolutions were passed against Nazi Europa and KREICH. These have yet to be repealed.