[PASSED] Preventing the Execution of Innocents

[Nova Trieste]

"Greetings gentlemen, I am ambassador Günther Kreidl, here to represent the Armed Republic of Nova Triest in this debate. Now, I've looked at this new proposal and..."
*phone rings*
"Oh, excuse me for one second"
"Yes Lord General? Yes, I'm at the Assembly right now. Yes, 3 days before the vote ends, more than enough to complete your... "work" at the maximum security prisons. Sure, that's the first thing I'll ask. Yes absolutely. Yes, thank you Lord General, I'll do my best. *click*

"All right, where was I? Oh yes, I would like to clarify an issue with the proposal that raised more than a few questions at our senate. You see, we're a newborn country with a relatively small population, and we're just ended a war with independence against city-states which employed PMCs. The remnants of these private armies are infesting our territory, plaguing our country with banditry, organized crime, terrorism and so on. The question is, how are we supposed to... dispose of all the scum we catch if we can't execute more than 10 convicts a year?"

Well in war, you can kill enemy combatants. That's not really an issue.

"We're not talking about a regular conflict against other military forcers, but a guerilla against said forces turned criminals."

[Hobbesistan]

Also, this never defines who's entitled to a case at all, so as long as I designate the people I don't like as for whatever legal reason not entitled to a trial or prosecution this resolution is without teeth anyway.

See GA 37 - Fairness in Criminal Trials.

Leaning on GA 37 for this definition - which is what gives this resolution any teeth - is both a shady workaround and makes this illegal per the house-of-cards rule. Should GA #37 ever be repealed this resolution would be unenforceable.

From a purely housekeeping definition this resolution itself needs to define who is entitled to a trial. It doesn't to my knowledge.

[Arasi Luvasa]

Ambassador Jimbo stands up "The republic of new jibby would like to say that this proposal is somehow worse then the original. Only allowing 1 execution a year. Huh What if its 2 people? We just throw them in jail for a year and kill them. I cant believe this. Why are you people not letting down. Why should our nation be here, if were just to suffer, but we will wait and see what happens."

"So you have a nation of less than two million? If not, then you do have access two more. As it is, my nation would be permitted around thirty-six cases."

[Revlona]

We need to show up and vote this down like the last one

[Separatist Peoples]

See GA 37 - Fairness in Criminal Trials.

Leaning on GA 37 for this definition - which is what gives this resolution any teeth - is both a shady workaround and makes this illegal per the house-of-cards rule. Should GA #37 ever be repealed this resolution would be unenforceable.

From a purely housekeeping definition this resolution itself needs to define who is entitled to a trial. It doesn't to my knowledge.

Ooc: that's not how HoC works. Would not be illegal.

[Hobbesistan]

Leaning on GA 37 for this definition - which is what gives this resolution any teeth - is both a shady workaround and makes this illegal per the house-of-cards rule. Should GA #37 ever be repealed this resolution would be unenforceable.

From a purely housekeeping definition this resolution itself needs to define who is entitled to a trial. It doesn't to my knowledge.

Ooc: that's not how HoC works. Would not be illegal.

How does HoC work then, per your definition sir/madam?

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

"I feel kind of strange complaining about mountains of paperwork, considering the country I represent, but I don't recall there being an international law specifically banning executing someone without a trial (and I didn't want to go through the 400-odd WA laws to figure out whether this was the case or not). Therefore, one can hold a trial for someone with a punishment other than death, thus complying with the regulation by not executing them for the crime committed, and then execute them for no listed reason.
While it might be tyrannical to do so, if I did not miss something in my search, it would technically be legal."
-An ambassador who probably needs to be fired

[Ruststraya]

This is an outrage! The resolution will only drive up the costs of prosecutions and delay the swift and merciful sentence from being carried out. But section 4.f requires the state prove a negative.

prove, such that there could not arise evidence (foreseeable at the time of trial) that would cast doubt on the guilt of the defendant for any charge which could carry a capital sentence, and

This resolution cannot be allowed to pass in its current form as it is impossible to comply with. It is a gross overreach by The Assembly and it is a joke to classify this intrusion up member nations judicial systems as 'mild'.

[Leifar]

The Commons Delegate and Commons Governor finally arrive to the meeting with the document in hand as they show it to all parties involved within voting standard,

"Representatives, Delegates, and those upon the floor of the General Assembly and the World Assembly. Today, we present you with a document, listing our reasons of the denial of this proposal and why you should too."

They both sit down as the document is given.

[Auralia]

If two people are convicted of similar crimes in similar circumstances, and assessed to be equally culpable, it is unacceptable for them to be treated differently because in one case the nation has exceeded its quota of capital sentences and in the other it has not. This contradicts the basic principles of justice.

Ditto. I didn't mention this in my analysis, but it is a very important point.

Martin Russell
Chief Ambassador, Auralian Mission to the World Assembly

[Tobise]

May I recommend renaming this proposal "Make WA Delegates Feel Better While Accomplishing Nothing"?

This is the most bureaucratic, naïve proposal I've seen since I joined the WA. Enforcing this would be nearly impossible, the Division would get swamped within a week even with that ridiculous "one per one million" rule, and the proposal has so many loopholes that it could be repurposed as a block of Swiss cheese. So many terms with no legal weight.

"All capital sentences shall be carried out via a method which is, upon review demanded by any party to a capital case, proven beyond any reasonable doubt not to cause pain or suffering." Death is pain. Death is suffering. If there's a method of ending a human life without causing pain and/or suffering, I'd be very curious.

TLDR: This is sophomoric do-goodedness at its worst. Imperium Anglorum is an embarrassment to the WA, as is this proposal.

If this proposal can somehow be enforced, though, I'll gladly accept the "Execute All Your Violent Prisoners in Less Than 3 Days Challenge".

[Leifar]

May I recommend renaming this proposal "Make WA Delegates Feel Better While Accomplishing Nothing"?

This is the most bureaucratic, naïve proposal I've seen since I joined the WA. Enforcing this would be nearly impossible, the Division would get swamped within a week even with that ridiculous "one per one million" rule, and the proposal has so many loopholes that it could be repurposed as a block of Swiss cheese. So many terms with no legal weight.

"All capital sentences shall be carried out via a method which is, upon review demanded by any party to a capital case, proven beyond any reasonable doubt not to cause pain or suffering." Death is pain. Death is suffering. If there's a method of ending a human life without causing pain and/or suffering, I'd be very curious.

TLDR: This is sophomoric do-goodedness at its worst. Imperium Anglorum is an embarrassment to the WA, as is this proposal.

If this proposal can somehow be enforced, though, I'll gladly accept the "Execute All Your Violent Prisoners in Less Than 3 Days Challenge".

Which we do agree we see many things wrong with this:

I'm sure a repeal would be made within that time limit.

- Garnet Rose
Leifar Commons Governor

[Jocospor]

May I recommend renaming this proposal "Make WA Delegates Feel Better While Accomplishing Nothing"?

This is the most bureaucratic, naïve proposal I've seen since I joined the WA. Enforcing this would be nearly impossible, the Division would get swamped within a week even with that ridiculous "one per one million" rule, and the proposal has so many loopholes that it could be repurposed as a block of Swiss cheese. So many terms with no legal weight.

"All capital sentences shall be carried out via a method which is, upon review demanded by any party to a capital case, proven beyond any reasonable doubt not to cause pain or suffering." Death is pain. Death is suffering. If there's a method of ending a human life without causing pain and/or suffering, I'd be very curious.

TLDR: This is sophomoric do-goodedness at its worst. Imperium Anglorum is an embarrassment to the WA, as is this proposal.

If this proposal can somehow be enforced, though, I'll gladly accept the "Execute All Your Violent Prisoners in Less Than 3 Days Challenge".

*the Delegate's Office stands to applaud with the utmost sincerity* You have spoken true, Ambassador. Alack, though, for the vote is against us. We urge you to spread these sentiments far and wide, truly we do.

Imperium Anglorum might be an embarrassment, but make no mistake: he's plenty more schemes lined up to see that he gets what he wants, we're sure of it.

Oh, and by the way: WALL. We can't believe we only just stumbled across this now! Quite literally, it's a wall, a wall made up of Balder, Europe, Europeia, International Democratic Union, and The North Pacific. Remember that block alliance we speculated on months ago? Turned out to be real - who would've thought?!

This is a black day for the World Assembly.

[Separatist Peoples]

Ooc: that's not how HoC works. Would not be illegal.

How does HoC work then, per your definition sir/madam?

Ooc: per GenSec ruling, non-explicit references to previous policy doesnt create a house of cards. Repeal of the foundational resolution may weaken a later one, but replacements may re-bolster them. It's a higher bar than you've suggested.

[Leifar]

May I recommend renaming this proposal "Make WA Delegates Feel Better While Accomplishing Nothing"?

This is the most bureaucratic, naïve proposal I've seen since I joined the WA. Enforcing this would be nearly impossible, the Division would get swamped within a week even with that ridiculous "one per one million" rule, and the proposal has so many loopholes that it could be repurposed as a block of Swiss cheese. So many terms with no legal weight.

"All capital sentences shall be carried out via a method which is, upon review demanded by any party to a capital case, proven beyond any reasonable doubt not to cause pain or suffering." Death is pain. Death is suffering. If there's a method of ending a human life without causing pain and/or suffering, I'd be very curious.

TLDR: This is sophomoric do-goodedness at its worst. Imperium Anglorum is an embarrassment to the WA, as is this proposal.

If this proposal can somehow be enforced, though, I'll gladly accept the "Execute All Your Violent Prisoners in Less Than 3 Days Challenge".

*the Delegate's Office stands to applaud with the utmost sincerity* You have spoken true, Ambassador. Alack, though, for the vote is against us. We urge you to spread these sentiments far and wide, truly we do.

Imperium Anglorum might be an embarrassment, but make no mistake: he's plenty more schemes lined up to see that he gets what he wants, we're sure of it.

Oh, and by the way: WALL. We can't believe we only just stumbled across this now! Quite literally, it's a wall, a wall made up of Balder, Europe, Europeia, International Democratic Union, and The North Pacific. Remember that block alliance we speculated on months ago? Turned out to be real - who would've thought?!

This is a black day for the World Assembly.

If we may, shall we go to the Security Council about this to condemn this "WALL"?

[Separatist Peoples]

May I recommend renaming this proposal "Make WA Delegates Feel Better While Accomplishing Nothing"?

This is the most bureaucratic, naïve proposal I've seen since I joined the WA. Enforcing this would be nearly impossible, the Division would get swamped within a week even with that ridiculous "one per one million" rule, and the proposal has so many loopholes that it could be repurposed as a block of Swiss cheese. So many terms with no legal weight.

"All capital sentences shall be carried out via a method which is, upon review demanded by any party to a capital case, proven beyond any reasonable doubt not to cause pain or suffering." Death is pain. Death is suffering. If there's a method of ending a human life without causing pain and/or suffering, I'd be very curious.

TLDR: This is sophomoric do-goodedness at its worst. Imperium Anglorum is an embarrassment to the WA, as is this proposal.

If this proposal can somehow be enforced, though, I'll gladly accept the "Execute All Your Violent Prisoners in Less Than 3 Days Challenge".

*the Delegate's Office stands to applaud with the utmost sincerity* You have spoken true, Ambassador. Alack, though, for the vote is against us. We urge you to spread these sentiments far and wide, truly we do.

Imperium Anglorum might be an embarrassment, but make no mistake: he's plenty more schemes lined up to see that he gets what he wants, we're sure of it.

Oh, and by the way: WALL. We can't believe we only just stumbled across this now! Quite literally, it's a wall, a wall made up of Balder, Europe, Europeia, International Democratic Union, and The North Pacific. Remember that block alliance we speculated on months ago? Turned out to be real - who would've thought?!

This is a black day for the World Assembly.

Ooc: I mean, WALL isn't exactly secretive. Its discord has public channels open to basically anybody. It's also been around like that for years. You just missed the elephant in the room.

[Gawdzendia]

Ooc: I mean, WALL isn't exactly secretive. Its discord has public channels open to basically anybody. It's also been around like that for years. You just missed the elephant in the room.

OOC: Anyone watching the voting trends of the bigger delegates should notice it eventually, I hope

[Jocospor]

*the Delegate's Office stands to applaud with the utmost sincerity* You have spoken true, Ambassador. Alack, though, for the vote is against us. We urge you to spread these sentiments far and wide, truly we do.

Imperium Anglorum might be an embarrassment, but make no mistake: he's plenty more schemes lined up to see that he gets what he wants, we're sure of it.

Oh, and by the way: WALL. We can't believe we only just stumbled across this now! Quite literally, it's a wall, a wall made up of Balder, Europe, Europeia, International Democratic Union, and The North Pacific. Remember that block alliance we speculated on months ago? Turned out to be real - who would've thought?!

This is a black day for the World Assembly.

Ooc: I mean, WALL isn't exactly secretive. Its discord has public channels open to basically anybody. It's also been around like that for years. You just missed the elephant in the room.

No, it's not secretive. We were a little slow on the up take there. However, its existence is the issue at hand here, not its accessibility.

[Malsti]

Ooc: I mean, WALL isn't exactly secretive. Its discord has public channels open to basically anybody. It's also been around like that for years. You just missed the elephant in the room.

No, it's not secretive. We were a little slow on the up take there. However, its existence is the issue at hand here, not its accessibility.

Shit or get off the pot ambassador. If you want to tilt at windmills, go draft an anti-WALL resolution.

I have some issues with the current resolution, however I will be damned if I am going to hand ammunition to the orcs currently occupying this chamber. Should this fail or be repealed, I will raise them in the next draft.

[PaleoAmerica]

"A quota system on my country's courts to restrict the carrying out of a perfectly legal system of punishment? Absolutely not, I strongly oppose this resolution."
-Ambassador Booker O'Brian

[Bears Armed]

" You know hes right so POW's are exempt? I mean this dosent apply to our nation but it is a good point." Jimbo rubs his chin

"POWs are already protected -- and enemy combatants given the right to have their surrender accepted -- by earlier GA legislation."

Hwa Sue,
Legal Attaché,
Bears Armed Mission to the World Assembly
(and anthropomorphic male Giant Panda).

Shall we make a resolution that bans repeatedly proposing very similar bills to the WA?

OOC
Illegal, either as a pure blocker or for Game Mechanics.

[Jocospor]

No, it's not secretive. We were a little slow on the up take there. However, its existence is the issue at hand here, not its accessibility.

Shit or get off the pot ambassador. If you want to tilt at windmills, go draft an anti-WALL resolution.

I have some issues with the current resolution, however I will be damned if I am going to hand ammunition to the orcs currently occupying this chamber. Should this fail or be repealed, I will raise them in the next draft.

We may very well, in all our spare time.

Also, a point of clarification, ambassador. We are not orcs. No, contrary to popular opinion, we are, in fact, a collective of... *subtle yet confused looks are exchanged between the Delegate's Office*

...BUT HOWEVER that's not the point! We've likely already discovered your issues - they'll be our issues too.

In the World Assembly, one's adversary should be undesirable legislation, not undesirable ambassadors. If you cut off your nose, you will spite your face.

[New Neruda]

I voted For this purely because of all the telegrams telling me to vote Against it

[Leifar]

I voted For this purely because of all the telegrams telling me to vote Against it

Then say goodbye to your judiciary branches.

[New Neruda]

I voted For this purely because of all the telegrams telling me to vote Against it

Then say goodbye to your judiciary branches.

k