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[DEFEATED] Condemn the Land of Kings and Emperors

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Grenhold
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Posts: 3
Founded: Jan 15, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Grenhold » Wed May 29, 2019 7:08 pm

True, I am part of the LKE. And they have treated me fair for a long time. I have not seen or heard of them doing wrong by anyone in that time either.

This delegate encourages the proposing delegate to try crying some more, if he wants sympathy.
Last edited by Grenhold on Wed May 29, 2019 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Wed May 29, 2019 7:55 pm

Honestly, regardless of outcome this has been one of the more fascinating votes to watch the dynamics of.
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Eumaeus
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Founded: Jan 27, 2018
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Eumaeus » Wed May 29, 2019 8:08 pm

Consular wrote:Yeah your LKE flag tells us all we need to know about your opinion thanks

To be fair, LKE has the right to defend itself against claims made in a condemnation against them.

Valfor wrote:-snip-

While your opinion of Consular's motives is not necessarily invalid, it would probably serve your argument better to actually address the content of the proposal rather than the OOC history that its author has with the target region. Most of the WA won't give a second thought to conflicts of interest.
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Lord Dominator
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Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Wed May 29, 2019 8:13 pm

And given the described conflicts of interest, it'd seem they are more likely to help Consular's arguments.
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Shaktirajya
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shaktirajya » Wed May 29, 2019 8:34 pm

We, the People's Hindu Matriarchy of Shaktirajya, hereby vote FOR this resolution for no especial reason other than a general distaste for raiders. That is all.

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Shrewtopia
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Founded: Aug 17, 2004
Father Knows Best State

Postby Shrewtopia » Thu May 30, 2019 1:19 am

Shrewtopia is all for this but mostly because the LKE were devoid of any sort of humour when they came to visit. The poor little sausages just couldn't quite fit in with us.

ALL IS WELL!

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Consular
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Founded: Apr 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Consular » Thu May 30, 2019 2:20 am

Grenhold wrote:I have not seen or heard of them doing wrong by anyone in that time either.

Then you either haven't been paying attention or have a distorted view of "doing wrong". I think intentional acts of destruction against innocent players is wrong.

Grenhold wrote:This delegate encourages the proposing delegate to try crying some more, if he wants sympathy.

Lmao what even is this??

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Miporin
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Founded: Jan 12, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Miporin » Thu May 30, 2019 3:50 am

Valfor wrote:You mean the same list of "condemnable actions" that contains things you either participated in or were associated with?

Sounds like someone needs to write up a Condemn Consular :)
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Xoriet
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Xoriet » Thu May 30, 2019 7:11 am

Shrewtopia wrote:Shrewtopia is all for this but mostly because the LKE were devoid of any sort of humour when they came to visit. The poor little sausages just couldn't quite fit in with us.

ALL IS WELL!

If Shrewtopia approves, it's clearly meant to be. :hug:
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Murden
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Conflict of Interest?

Postby Murden » Thu May 30, 2019 8:41 am

It is so grossly obvious that the author has a personal vendetta against the region in question. Should we allow such pettiness to take the global stage? I should think not, yet it's clear the supporters seem to be after vengeance than justice...

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Novian Republics
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Novian Republics » Thu May 30, 2019 9:44 am

Murden wrote:It is so grossly obvious that the author has a personal vendetta against the region in question. Should we allow such pettiness to take the global stage? I should think not, yet it's clear the supporters seem to be after vengeance than justice...


I'm inclined to agree, after having read through the whole thread it is blatantly obvious. Furthermore, the language of the resolution is unbecoming of an organisation with a stature such as the WA Security Council. In fact, the language alone should be enough to warrant a nay and maybe even an outright dismissal, yet here we are. While I'm at it I may as well point out the parts of the resolution I take issue with, all of which you can see below:

Consular wrote:
The Security Council,

Reaffirming its dedication to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, and its right to condemn those who act consistently and unapologetically against this mission,

Rejecting the spurious notion that a region has some kind of perverse right to cause unjustified damage to others through acts of random aggression, and the dangerous ideal that selfish regional interests should take precedence over protecting inter-regional peace and doing what is right,

Asserting that the Land of Kings and Emperors ("the LKE") has historically acted as a belligerent state on the world stage, yet has so far escaped consequences through corrupting inter-regional politics, propagation of blatant lies, and boring everyone to death with catastrophically uninteresting text,

Enumerating the numerous acts of senseless harm the LKE has callously propagated without remorse, which includes:

  1. Random invasion and acts of destruction against too many regions to comprehensively list, but which include Belgium, The True Rebirth, Middle Earth, Fidelia, Soviet Union, Argartha, Zhe Intranational Communist, Hogwarts, Scotland, The Soviet Bloc, Slavya, Ixnay, Canada, the Coalition of Catholic States, Eastern Europe, Region Inc, Equestria, Atheist Empire, Meridon, South Pacific, The Union, Liberty Alliance, Forest, Belgium again, Philippines, Asia, Latinoamerica, The International Kingdom, The Union of Red Nations, Westphalia, United Islands, and Iran.
  2. Invasion, occupation, and eventual refounding of Slavia, which during this process was subjected to aggressive intimidation by LKE officials, in a common trend where the LKE has repeatedly used the threat of invasion to compel regions to act against their own interests.
  3. Close collaboration with a number of disreputable regions whose only purpose for being is to invade and tear down others, and who have been widely ostracised for totally unacceptable conduct and severe violations of inter-regional expectations, examples including the notorious The Black Riders and DEN.
  4. Continued acts of aggression against the Founderless Regions Alliance, a defensive organisation that sought to uphold inter-regional peace, including a series of minor tangential invasions which the LKE would use to dubiously claim some kind of victory in its ridiculous war.
  5. Invasion of The Rejected Realms ("TRR") on a massive scale, during which the Emperor of the LKE would become Delegate of TRR, a fact they would arrogantly lord over the world for years to come.
  6. Attempted manipulation of the region Osiris when it was under occupation by a rogue state, by dishonestly offering support to both sides and needlessly prolonging the conflict for its own benefit, which included leveraging its position to force Osiris to withdraw from the Pan-Sinker Security Pact and to sever all contact with the Founderless Regions Alliance, in what amounted to a blatant display of extortion.
  7. Military support for the tyrannical Khanate government in its coup and occupation of Lazarus, and being noticeably absent from a coalition of peacekeepers from most prominent regions who sought to restore peace, further demonstrating the LKE's consistent agenda of destabilising regions and their populations.
  8. Deliberate obstruction of honest efforts to rebuild the struggling community of The New Inquisition, lead by the criminally inclined Emperor of the LKE, who would personally drive many good leaders from the region and seal its decline, ultimately prefering to betray a community they had helped create instead of giving up control.
  9. Forced assimilation of regions into the lethargic empire and/or personal trophy collection of the LKE, which include Ilum, Polis, Munster, The Imperial Legion, and Vienna.
  10. Attempted invasion of the noble and tenacious region of Moldavia no less than four times, all of which were rebuked, much to the embarrassment of the LKE's surprisingly incompetent military forces.
  11. Attempted blackmail of innocent regions through the Green-Black Concordat, where such regions could either contribute militarily to the LKE's campaigns against their interests or be considered valid targets themselves.
  12. Engagement of recruitment practices that are considered against inter-regional expectations, and subsequently blaming these actions on a scapegoated individual when ultimately caught and punished.
  13. Various other assorted affronts, such as having a garbage motto that is obnoxiously written everywhere in entirely capital letters, and publishing documents with broken amateurish formatting.

Denouncing the LKE for the above described extensive history of unkind, aggressive, destructive, and occasionally laughable conduct,

Hereby condemns the Land of Kings and Emperors.


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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Founded: Dec 17, 2003
New York Times Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Thu May 30, 2019 9:52 am

Novian Republics wrote:I'm inclined to agree, after having read through the whole thread it is blatantly obvious. Furthermore, the language of the resolution is unbecoming of an organisation with a stature such as the WA Security Council. In fact, the language alone should be enough to warrant a nay and maybe even an outright dismissal, yet here we are. While I'm at it I may as well point out the parts of the resolution I take issue with, all of which you can see below:

Suggest you read the rules regarding what constitutes a legal or illegal resolution. This one has been passed as legal, whatever you may think of the language.

Personally I’ll be quite happy if this passes, a Condemnation with a bit of a bite to it.
Last edited by Bhang Bhang Duc on Thu May 30, 2019 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Novian Republics
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Founded: Nov 16, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Novian Republics » Thu May 30, 2019 10:22 am

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
Novian Republics wrote:I'm inclined to agree, after having read through the whole thread it is blatantly obvious. Furthermore, the language of the resolution is unbecoming of an organisation with a stature such as the WA Security Council. In fact, the language alone should be enough to warrant a nay and maybe even an outright dismissal, yet here we are. While I'm at it I may as well point out the parts of the resolution I take issue with, all of which you can see below:

Suggest you read the rules regarding what constitutes a legal or illegal resolution. This one has been passed as legal, whatever you may think of the language.

Personally I’ll be quite happy if this passes.


That its legal doesn't mean that the SC (as in the nations part of it) should settle with such language. (Also, I already know of the rules.)
Last edited by Novian Republics on Thu May 30, 2019 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Wizards Leave
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Founded: Sep 11, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Wizards Leave » Thu May 30, 2019 11:28 am

Get those scallywags condemned!
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Catsfern
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Catsfern » Thu May 30, 2019 11:38 am

As far as I’m concerned invading any region for any reason is worthy of a condemnation no matter how big or how small, and no matter that regions political beliefs are.
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Nocturus Terra
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Founded: Oct 04, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nocturus Terra » Thu May 30, 2019 12:11 pm

Time for them to get what they deserve

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The United Peoples of Caedis
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Founded: May 01, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Why

Postby The United Peoples of Caedis » Thu May 30, 2019 4:34 pm

This condemning of the LKE as per the language used is merely a personal vendetta against the region in its entirety

This is just a why moment as if consular has a personal grudge against the LKE then he should try and find another way to deal with it as by making this condemnation if it passes newer nations who most likely have done nothing or know of what’s even happened that is mentioned in the post who are in the LKE are being condemned for something they weren’t involved in so consular.

If you have such a personal grudge against the LKE just find a different way to settle the grudge that leaves those who have no involvement in these events out of it


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Isaris
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Founded: Jul 18, 2009
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Isaris » Thu May 30, 2019 4:51 pm

This resolution is a steaming pile of feces and anyone voting for it should feel ashamed of themselves. You all make me sick. Grow the hell up.

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Catsfern
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Postby Catsfern » Thu May 30, 2019 5:02 pm

Says the one directly flame baiting
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Consular
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Ex-Nation

Postby Consular » Thu May 30, 2019 5:30 pm

Yes, I have a personal grudge. That is the only reason this is passing. Over half of NationStates is voting to condemn these guys because of a grudge. It definitely has nothing to do with the many many MANY completely deplorable and condemnable acts outlined in the resolution.

(That's sarcasm.)

You're buying into the LKE's propaganda, playing right into their hands. They're the bad guys here and they'll use whatever argument they can to escape the consequences. Fight back!

A glance at the vote tells you a lot! Individual nations and small delegates back me. The only reason it's close is the big shot delegates are trying to shut it down, because they're under immense political pressure from the LKE and its cronies. Don't let them shut you down!

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Isaris
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Isaris » Thu May 30, 2019 5:34 pm

Catsfern wrote:Says the one directly flame baiting

Tell me how this is not flame-baiting:
13. Various other assorted affronts, such as having a garbage motto that is obnoxiously written everywhere in entirely capital letters, and publishing documents with broken amateurish formatting.


Nothing is objectively "garbage", "obnoxiously written" or "amateurish", those are all subjective adjectives and cannot be objectively proven with evidence. As far as I'm concerned, this resolution should not be legal and that NS mods continue to claim that it is shakes my entire faith in their ability to properly conduct their duties regarding SC resolutions.

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Kuriko
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kuriko » Thu May 30, 2019 5:37 pm

Catsfern wrote:Says the one directly flame baiting

If you believe there is flame baiting going on report it to moderation, otherwise don't accuse people of it.

Edit: Or else you could get spoken to by a moderator.
Last edited by Kuriko on Thu May 30, 2019 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Catsfern
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Postby Catsfern » Thu May 30, 2019 5:37 pm

Isaris wrote:
Catsfern wrote:Says the one directly flame baiting

Tell me how this is not flame-baiting:
13. Various other assorted affronts, such as having a garbage motto that is obnoxiously written everywhere in entirely capital letters, and publishing documents with broken amateurish formatting.


Nothing is objectively "garbage", "obnoxiously written" or "amateurish", those are all subjective adjectives and cannot be objectively proven with evidence. As far as I'm concerned, this resolution should not be legal and that NS mods continue to claim that it is shakes my entire faith in their ability to properly conduct their duties regarding SC resolutions.


If you don’t like it and want to claim the high ground don’t stoop to their level, or simply don’t fight fire with fire.
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Isaris
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Postby Isaris » Thu May 30, 2019 5:43 pm

Catsfern wrote:
Isaris wrote:Tell me how this is not flame-baiting:


Nothing is objectively "garbage", "obnoxiously written" or "amateurish", those are all subjective adjectives and cannot be objectively proven with evidence. As far as I'm concerned, this resolution should not be legal and that NS mods continue to claim that it is shakes my entire faith in their ability to properly conduct their duties regarding SC resolutions.


If you don’t like it and want to claim the high ground don’t stoop to their level, or simply don’t fight fire with fire.

Sometimes the pursuit of justice requires us to make use of the tools of the enemy. Not all heroes wear capes, kid.

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Catsfern
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Postby Catsfern » Thu May 30, 2019 5:48 pm

yeah seems about right.
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Interacting With me? Read This. https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1304258

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