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[DEFEATED] Condemn the Land of Kings and Emperors

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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sun May 26, 2019 9:50 pm

Nice!

Good luck
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Lenlyvit
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Lenlyvit » Sun May 26, 2019 9:54 pm

Good luck Consular :bow:
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Cormactopia Prime
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Ex-Nation

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sun May 26, 2019 10:33 pm

All the support. All of it.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Mon May 27, 2019 3:31 am

I was still CTE when this was drafted so this is the first time I’ve seen it. Well written, comprehensive in scope and occasionally humorous.

Good luck with this Consular.
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Aexnidaral
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Postby Aexnidaral » Mon May 27, 2019 5:59 am

And I -- oop.
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Ransium
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Postby Ransium » Mon May 27, 2019 6:08 am

I was surprised to see Forest on the list. Providing some support for region crashing hardly seems of note to me.

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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Mon May 27, 2019 7:17 am

Ransium wrote:I was surprised to see Forest on the list. Providing some support for region crashing hardly seems of note to me.

Already argued that point, now grudgingly live with it :p
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Eumaeus
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Postby Eumaeus » Mon May 27, 2019 8:38 am

Like BBD, I was inactive (although not cte'd) when this was originally drafted, and this was my first time reading this. I had two comments, but they are both related to aesthetics and represent my subjective preferences rather than any sort of objective critique, so I'll keep them to myself. Otherwise, I only have two additional comments: this is well written and well argued.
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Lord Dominator
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Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Mon May 27, 2019 4:35 pm

Did you, uh, send out a campaign to for this Consular?
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Consular
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Ex-Nation

Postby Consular » Mon May 27, 2019 6:59 pm

Nah

I'll telegram some Delegates in a bit to get the approvals. Not gonna mass TG.

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Lenlyvit
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Lenlyvit » Mon May 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Consular wrote:Nah

I'll telegram some Delegates in a bit to get the approvals. Not gonna mass TG.

If you don't mass telegram then it won't reach queue and it'll die.....
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RiderSyl
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Postby RiderSyl » Mon May 27, 2019 8:08 pm

Consular wrote:Nah

I'll telegram some Delegates in a bit to get the approvals. Not gonna mass TG.


Manual campaigning?

If you get it to queue that way, then you deserve some sort of extra special SC author badge.
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Consular
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Postby Consular » Mon May 27, 2019 11:27 pm

It was possible once upon a time :(

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LollerLand
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby LollerLand » Tue May 28, 2019 1:49 am

Consular wrote:It was possible once upon a time :(

'once upon a time'

After all the effort you have put into this, it would be a shame if it didn't get enough approvals..
Last edited by LollerLand on Tue May 28, 2019 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Tue May 28, 2019 4:34 am

Consular wrote:It was possible once upon a time :(

Looking good at the moment - more than halfway there.
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Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

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Catsfern
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Postby Catsfern » Tue May 28, 2019 8:59 am

This proposal has the full support of Catsfern and the personal support of John Henry Eden.
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Consular
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Postby Consular » Tue May 28, 2019 7:44 pm

Nice unapprove campaign. Desperate, but nice. :p

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Lord Dominator
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Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue May 28, 2019 9:07 pm

Don't suppose anyone has a copy, for posterity and amusement? :p
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King HEM
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Postby King HEM » Wed May 29, 2019 6:38 am

Doubtless, the months put into writing and revising this was a huge investment in time and I would be remiss if I didn't say this was both well-written and argued.

That being said, it remains unfortunate that this resolution stands with a high probability of passing. The Land of Kings and Emperors has undoubtedly been one of the strongest forces behind the development and politicization of Nationstates, providing political frameworks that have defined entire swaths of regions' government, politik, and culture. It's safe to say that Nationstates would not have so rich a history and politics if Lucius Magnus Rex hadn't founded the LKE in 2006.

I suppose my point is that, through a history spanning nearly 15 years, it is possible to find things worthy of condemnation. The same is true of any region that has existed that long. But it would be far, far, easier to write a commendation than a condemnation. The Security Council, of course, is not a history book with all those nuances laid out, but it would be a great shame for this resolution to pass.

A few other points:

Continued acts of aggression against the Founderless Regions Alliance, a defensive organisation that sought to uphold inter-regional peace, including a series of minor tangential invasions which the LKE would use to dubiously claim some kind of victory in its ridiculous war.


The idea that the FRA was an organization that sought peace is completely laughable. The FRA was behind numerous offensive intelligence missions throughout its history, all of which sought to either topple or co-opt neutral or invader regions. It existed before the word "subversive" was mainstream, but they doubtless were case study #1 of subversion.

In addition, the FRA was not above conducting "pre-emptive defending" where they topped a native delegate to "protect" the region from potential invaders. The whole org was a total sham, and ought not to have even been brought into this conversation.

Invasion of The Rejected Realms ("TRR") on a massive scale, during which the Emperor of the LKE would become Delegate of TRR, a fact they would arrogantly lord over the world for years to come.


This precedent where merely invading a region is worthy of condemnation is highly problematic and bad. I feel like we are doing the retro disco back to 2012.

Random invasion and acts of destruction against too many regions to comprehensively list, but which include Belgium, The True Rebirth, Middle Earth, Fidelia, Soviet Union, Argartha, Zhe Intranational Communist, Hogwarts, Scotland, The Soviet Bloc, Slavya, Ixnay, Canada, the Coalition of Catholic States, Eastern Europe, Region Inc, Equestria, Atheist Empire, Meridon, South Pacific, The Union, Liberty Alliance, Forest, Belgium again, Philippines, Asia, Latinoamerica, The International Kingdom, The Union of Red Nations, Westphalia, United Islands, and Iran.


See above. Phew. Bad.

Various other assorted affronts, such as having a garbage motto that is obnoxiously written everywhere in entirely capital letters, and publishing documents with broken amateurish formatting.


Okay lmao. Hope you don't find the first flag I designed for my nation in 2006, or I'll likely be condemned too.

--

Anyway, to the bated breath waiting to know, I definitely won't be supporting this.
Last edited by King HEM on Wed May 29, 2019 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
HEM

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Consular
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Founded: Apr 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Consular » Wed May 29, 2019 7:32 am

It would be far, far, easier to write a commendation for a region that has spent the better part of a decade trying to tear down the work of other players? No.

All of your points are technicalities and obfuscations, and they do not lessen the LKE's clear legacy of aggression.

Your defence of them is however unsurprising.

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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Wed May 29, 2019 8:01 am

King HEM wrote:
This precedent where merely invading a region is worthy of condemnation is highly problematic and bad.

33 regions is not 'a region' :p
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Armaros
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Founded: Apr 06, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Armaros » Wed May 29, 2019 8:21 am

I missed this in my first read-through, but I'm heavily against 12. The LKE didn't simply "blame these actions on a scapegoated individual". This is a disgusting propaganda act for which the LKE was punished by the moderators, and they are not to blame for the actions of Bob Moran. Truly shameful.

EDIT: This is now at vote.
Last edited by Armaros on Wed May 29, 2019 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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King HEM
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Founded: Mar 07, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby King HEM » Wed May 29, 2019 10:14 am

Consular wrote:It would be far, far, easier to write a commendation for a region that has spent the better part of a decade trying to tear down the work of other players? No.

All of your points are technicalities and obfuscations, and they do not lessen the LKE's clear legacy of aggression.

Your defence of them is however unsurprising.


Believing that merely invading is not condemnable isn’t a technicality or obfuscation, it’s a core principal that cuts to the heart of this proposal.
HEM

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Leporias
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Founded: Nov 28, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Regarding "Condemn the Land of Kings and Emperors"

Postby Leporias » Wed May 29, 2019 11:02 am

"...boring everyone to death with catastrophically uninteresting text..."

"...a series of minor tangential invasions which the LKE would use to dubiously claim some kind of victory in its ridiculous war."

"...the Emperor of the LKE would become Delegate of TRR, a fact they would arrogantly lord over the world for years to come."

"...much to the embarrassment of the LKE's surprisingly incompetent military forces.

"...having a garbage motto that is obnoxiously written everywhere."

Umm....what? I may not have heard about the LKE or its conflicts before I read this, but I really don't think this is the way to write a Condemnation. To those who wrote this, your tone makes it sound like you've got a massive grudge against the nations/leader of this region. This type of language is unacceptable for a Resolution.

I'm not saying that I side with the LKE or their rivals/enemies. I just find it strange that this Resolution is up with such a condescending tone to it.
Last edited by Leporias on Wed May 29, 2019 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Flanderlion
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Founded: Nov 25, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Flanderlion » Wed May 29, 2019 11:13 am

The author does have a grudge against LKE. They used to be allied through UIAF. LKE is a strong bastion of hope, native rights and democracy in this dangerously authoritarian raider dominated world.
As always, I'm representing myself.

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