[DEFEATED] Condemn the Land of Kings and Emperors

[Malphe]

*munching on pocpcorn*

[Xoriet]

"I refuse to support such a resolution because of the ineffectiveness of such a resolution. It does nothing. No Sanctions, no secondary sanctions, fiscal consequences, no withdrawing investments, no Embargoes, no Tariffs...
Nothing. It's simply a badge of honor, as voiced by many before me." The Ambassador voiced.

Oh, it's not a badge of honor. LKE doesn't want to be Condemned.

[Aclion]

You have my support, however there are few things I don't like about this draft.

1. I don't much like giving recognition to TBR or DEN if no mention is made of their use of... I think we call it illegal weapons, right?
2. "LKE has repeatedly used the threat of violence" is ambiguous and could be interpreted to refer to actual threats of violence; as opposed to what I hope it refers to, threats of invasion, region destruction and the like.

"I refuse to support such a resolution because of the ineffectiveness of such a resolution. It does nothing. No Sanctions, no secondary sanctions, fiscal consequences, no withdrawing investments, no Embargoes, no Tariffs...

Go complain in moderation if you want that. As it is that sort of thing is against the SC's rules.

[Kurnugia]

"I refuse to support such a resolution because of the ineffectiveness of such a resolution. It does nothing. No Sanctions, no secondary sanctions, fiscal consequences, no withdrawing investments, no Embargoes, no Tariffs...

Go complain in moderation if you want that. As it is that sort of thing is against the SC's rules.

Wouldn't this belong in technical since it's a gameplay mechanic?


As for the resolution: I support it ^-^

[Jar Wattinree]

"I refuse to support such a resolution because of the ineffectiveness of such a resolution. It does nothing. No Sanctions, no secondary sanctions, fiscal consequences, no withdrawing investments, no Embargoes, no Tariffs...
Nothing. It's simply a badge of honor, as voiced by many before me." The Ambassador voiced.

This is the SC, not GA. RP is replaced by GP.

[Fauxia]

Yes. Support. Support. Support!

I like the length, it’s got to be at least almost half a quarter as long as the average Onderwall to do this right.

[Kuriko]

An excellent first draft. Keep it up.

Any reason you’re going after LKE and not TNI?

Probably because TNI is 100% dead as of right now.

[Frisbeeteria]

"I refuse to support such a resolution because of the ineffectiveness of such a resolution. It does nothing. No Sanctions, no secondary sanctions, fiscal consequences, no withdrawing investments, no Embargoes, no Tariffs...

Wouldn't this belong in technical since it's a gameplay mechanic?

OOC:
Yeah, but don't bother. "Eternal Lotharia" has been doing some weird roleplay stuff here lately. I'm sure it's not a serious suggestion, and we wouldn't do it anyway.

[Consular]

*ignores Onder's silly post*

Alright, read back through. In 1 you have The New Inquisition as being invaded by the LKE, yet they never were. TNI and LKE have pretty much always been allies as far as I know, and TNI was ruled by members of the LKE ruling family including Onderkelkia and NES.

For the last few months the Imperial Army has been occupying TNI.

In 5 you have the LKE invading TRR, yet that's not true at all. Onderkelkia was the ruler of TNI at that point in time, and it was under the TNI banner that they claimed victory in TRR which they proudly proclaim in the TNI WFE.

Close enough.

Also, I know I'm gonna hate asking this, but why lump TBH in with TBR and DEN? As far as I know, TBH isn't nearly on the same level of horrible as the other two orgs are.

Fair. I've removed the Hawks.

Well yeah. I know both TBR and DEN were condemned at some point but is it really necessarry to bring up two dead regions banned for rulebreaking? You can get your point through by listing other raiding regions who they hold embassies with too.

I think it shows the kind of company the LKE loves to keep. I've made it clearer why those two groups are bad now -- is that better?

Any reason you’re going after LKE and not TNI?

TNI is dead. And the LKE is worse because they're a bunch of plonkers.

I don't much like giving recognition to TBR or DEN if no mention is made of their use of... I think we call it illegal weapons, right?

Edited. Is that better?

"LKE has repeatedly used the threat of violence" is ambiguous and could be interpreted to refer to actual threats of violence; as opposed to what I hope it refers to, threats of invasion, region destruction and the like.

Fair. I've changed this.

[Lord Dominator]

Again, forum links are illegal according to the rules, just as a note.

[Consular]

Ah yep I did see your post. Leaving it in there for now for reference. Thanks

[Lord Dominator]

Ah yep I did see your post. Leaving it in there for now for reference. Thanks

Cool, carry on

[Flanderlion]

I'm liking this purely for the salt. I'm guessing it will be most likely brutally defeated by WALL but it has a chance.

[Consular]

We'll see eh. Bet I can give those WALL cabbages a run for their money

Literally

[Shrewtopia]

Moldavia love the LKE. They are like the crazed cousins, high on meth & shrooms, that keep turning up and telling us that they own us and we should be happy. Though keep raving about how they control us and how we are part of them but the truth is that they just never fit our strange and local ways and they had to go. Onder is a dear though and we hold him in high regard as he is maybe the most delusional and that is actually quite fitting with the few nations still conducting business in our gloriously free-of-any-LKE-control-whatsoever region.

ALL IS WELL!

P.S. We actually annexed one of their regions with our pathetic military for a few years before the annexer quit and we lost it again. We had a lot of fun in Ilum and consider it our de facto holiday destination.

[Armaros]

I still kinda feel like you shouldn't include TBR or DEN. The newer players will not even know who those were, and I think it should be kept that way. Maybe say something like "they work together with a number of raiders who'se only purpose is to destroy other regions, such as the twice condemned The Black hawks." And then add a separate part where you say something like "•among their former allies were at least 2 notorious regions, banmed for rulebreaking" or somethig like that.

[Aclion]

I don't much like giving recognition to TBR or DEN if no mention is made of their use of... I think we call it illegal weapons, right?

Edited. Is that better?

"LKE has repeatedly used the threat of violence" is ambiguous and could be interpreted to refer to actual threats of violence; as opposed to what I hope it refers to, threats of invasion, region destruction and the like.

Fair. I've changed this.

Perfect. \o/

[Sancta Romana Ecclesia]

Careful, Cassius. They're going to call you a Francoist Defender - you and everyone else who votes for this.

I eagerly await my labeling.

I mean, I think by being PNGed in the LKE I am already labeled Francoist-Defender, so voting for this has no benefit for me.

I'm against. The badge that condemnation gives should actually have some effect, in addition to being deserved. Onder already bored you all with his explanation of how this is undeserved (I'm on the fence regarding this point), so I will touch how this is ineffective. This condemnation will neither cause any government of the LKE to forsake condemned foreign policy, nor will it cause any players to shun them. The LKE is pretty public about being Imperialist and its (now completely derelict) colony system. As such, I think this has no effect other than pissing Onder, which was witnessed in this thread. I mean, if that's your goal, go ahead and vote for.

Also, I'm not condemning Salvarity's coding.

[Consular]

I mean, if that's your goal, go ahead and vote for.

[Kuriko]

*ignores Onder's silly post*

Alright, read back through. In 1 you have The New Inquisition as being invaded by the LKE, yet they never were. TNI and LKE have pretty much always been allies as far as I know, and TNI was ruled by members of the LKE ruling family including Onderkelkia and NES.

For the last few months the Imperial Army has been occupying TNI.

In 5 you have the LKE invading TRR, yet that's not true at all. Onderkelkia was the ruler of TNI at that point in time, and it was under the TNI banner that they claimed victory in TRR which they proudly proclaim in the TNI WFE.

Close enough.

Also, I know I'm gonna hate asking this, but why lump TBH in with TBR and DEN? As far as I know, TBH isn't nearly on the same level of horrible as the other two orgs are.

Fair. I've removed the Hawks.

Well yeah. I know both TBR and DEN were condemned at some point but is it really necessarry to bring up two dead regions banned for rulebreaking? You can get your point through by listing other raiding regions who they hold embassies with too.

I think it shows the kind of company the LKE loves to keep. I've made it clearer why those two groups are bad now -- is that better?

Any reason you’re going after LKE and not TNI?

TNI is dead. And the LKE is worse because they're a bunch of plonkers.

I don't much like giving recognition to TBR or DEN if no mention is made of their use of... I think we call it illegal weapons, right?

Edited. Is that better?

"LKE has repeatedly used the threat of violence" is ambiguous and could be interpreted to refer to actual threats of violence; as opposed to what I hope it refers to, threats of invasion, region destruction and the like.

Fair. I've changed this.

The Imperial Army isn't occupying TNI at all Consular, which you would know if you looked at TNI. I was paying attention when they passworded it, and the delegate is the native delegate. Can you honestly say that an allied army, which helped to password their allied region to stop it being raided by defender forces, is occupying their ally? The delegate there is the native delegate, and they can change anything they want if they actually cared.

Edit: And the two RO nations belong to NES and Onder, who both ruled TNI at one point. They have a very strong claim to nativism there.

[Consular]

The Imperial Army isn't occupying TNI at all Consular, which you would know if you looked at TNI.

You know Lenly, I think I might just know a bit more about TNI and its history than you eh

There are no natives in TNI to complain anymore, because Onder drove them all away. He pretty much sabotaged every effort to save the place. Then Onder brought in his boys to lock the place down and turn it into his personal trophy.

Can you honestly say that an allied army, which helped to password their allied region to stop it being raided by defender forces, is occupying their ally?

Yes.

[Kuriko]

The Imperial Army isn't occupying TNI at all Consular, which you would know if you looked at TNI.

You know Lenly, I think I might just know a bit more about TNI and its history than you eh

There are no natives in TNI to complain anymore, because Onder drove them all away. He pretty much sabotaged every effort to save the place. Then Onder brought in his boys to lock the place down and turn it into his personal trophy.

Can you honestly say that an allied army, which helped to password their allied region to stop it being raided by defender forces, is occupying their ally?

Yes.

Its Kuri or Kuriko now Consular, not Lenly. And your logic makes no sense. By saying an allied military that helped password an allied region is occupying said region, would you say that about every allied military that's ever helped password an allied region? Because that sounds to me like how your logic is going.

Edit: Ill point out again that I'm not a fan of LKE, Onder, or anyone associated with that place. However, I'll also point out again that Onder was once the ruler of TNI.

[Onderkelkia]

The Imperial Army isn't occupying TNI at all Consular, which you would know if you looked at TNI.

You know Lenly, I think I might just know a bit more about TNI and its history than you eh

There are no natives in TNI to complain anymore, because Onder drove them all away. He pretty much sabotaged every effort to save the place. Then Onder brought in his boys to lock the place down and turn it into his personal trophy.

This is categorically untrue and is symptomatic of the casual and slanted approach you take the truth in pretty much every line of the proposal.

Prior to Gryfynn appointing me as a regional officer in September 2017, the RMB community in TNI left en masse of their own accord to found The Exalted Lands. To their extent they were driven out by discontent, it was over (a) Gryfynn's absences, (b) her refusal to grant them Border Control powers and (c) her refusal to permit them to construct an embassy with Nazi Europa. Only the last of those had anything to do with me, as I alerted her to the attempted construction. After I removed their advertisement from TNI's WFE and restored some dignity, a small number of Exalted Lands members came back to TNI to spam on the RMB. None were ejected by the founder (barring some puppets created with silly names intended as a play on the name of my TNI nation). The individuals concerned soon got bored and the same degree of quiet as existed beforehand returned. Then Gryfynn's nation sadly ceased to exist again in early 2018. Following this, as one of the longest-standing natives of TNI, I acted to secure the region. I called on TNI's allies to assist me. If I had not done so, the region would now be in the hands of its enemies. A cursory glance at the region today confirms that your claims of LKE occupation are ludicrous.

You do not have the first clue about TNI's history. You have no experience in TNI to speak of, beyond involvement in factional disputes related to Albion. You never truly experienced TNI outside the context of Albion and the UIAF, when TNI's peak in domestic activity and external power occurred in 2011-12.

[Wansdyke]

The notoriety of LKE precedes it. This is a Region of Immense Stature and Reknown in Nationstates. Deserving of many capital letters at the beginning of words that go against all grammatical rules.

The Aquila, or Golden Eagle - that symbol of the Roman Empire - of Imperialism - deliberately adopted by the LKE - has grown to become feared around the game because of its longstanding and forceful in-your-face unconventional approach to NS military and game-play.

Hated. Vilified. Reviled. Despised by our enemies, whilst it basks in it's Glory.

I can't find enough adjectives to fully embrace the notoriety that the LKE has built through its many unique attributes in this game, and significant number of glorious endeavours, making it potentially worthy of this honour.

Now if there was a Region out there that deserved damnation: surely it would be LKE.

But not like this - full of lies, inaccuracies and smears.

If there is still an ounce of genuine will to conduct this condemnation appropriately, rather than turn this into an exercise in toxicity - there must be a greater effort to improve the factual accuracy of this document. There are some seriously flagrant errors in this draft which border on libel. Given this is a public document that will likely be on the record for the remainder of the history of this game, I think it is imperative we correct this.

Where there is error, may we bring truth.

1. Random invasion and acts of destruction against too many regions to comprehensively list, but which include Belgium, The True Rebirth, Middle Earth, Fidelia, Soviet Union, Argartha, Zhe Intranational Communist, Hogwarts, Scotland, The Soviet Bloc, Slavya, Ixnay, Canada, the Coalition of Catholic States, Eastern Europe, Region Inc, Equestria, Atheist Empire, Meridon, South Pacific, The Union, Liberty Alliance, Forest, Belgium again, Philippines, Middle Earth again, Asia, Latinoamerica, South Pacific again, The International Kingdom, The Union of Red Nations, Westphalia, United Islands, Iran, and The New Inquisition.

Virtually none of these operations were actually commanded by LKE, indeed in all but a couple they only participated in a reinforcement capacity. Indeed, there are a great deal many more operations, especially in the LKE's earlier history that are missing from here. Most of these operations are from the UIAF era, when you were of course a member of The Imperial Command, so it’s natural you would remember these, but yeah this is not an exclusive list. There were also some huge operations in the earlier history of LKE which you’ve totally omitted. This whole section reeks of a lack of research.

Also I'm not sure the targets were totally random, some were definitely, well, targeted. Also including TNI in this list is silly as someone else pointed out.

2. Invasion, occupation, and eventual refounding of Slavia, which during this process was subjected to blackmail by LKE officials, in a common trend where the LKE has repeatedly used the threat of invasion to compel regions to act against their own interests.

LKE did not refound Slavia, end of, thats just plain wrong. And I prefer "Intimidation" to blackmail. Blackmail infers we had compromising information about them or something, which is totally untrue and brings a most unwelcome dimension to this.

3. Close collaboration with a number of disreputable regions whose only purpose for being is to invade and tear down others, and who have been widely ostracised for totally unacceptable conduct and severe violations of inter-regional law, examples including the notorious The Black Riders and DEN.

Not sure there was much military collaboration with DEN, but TBR certainly, albeit before the violations of inter-regional law were known. And then also there is TBH. The point is these entities are themselves condemned by the WASC. This is guilt by association, and in the case of DEN isn’t even true.

[4. Continued ridiculous acts of aggression against the Founderless Regions Alliance, a defensive organisation that sought to uphold inter-regional peace, including a series of minor tangential invasions which the LKE used to dubiously claim some kind of victory in its silly little war

It's probably hard to argue the LKE played a role equaling TNI in the war against FRA, but nonetheless some kind of mention of the LKE's unbreaking commitment to prosecuting the War is probably appropriate.

5. Invasion of The Rejected Realms ("TRR") on a massive scale, during which the Emperor of the LKE would become Delegate of TRR, a fact they would arrogantly lord over the world for years to come.

It's TNI that went for the mantra: "the Empire that conquered The Rejected Realms." And it was the TNI flag that was raised over TRR, not LKE's. The invasion of TRR might form part of a justification for a condemnation of TNI, but it makes little sense to cite this specific point against the LKE as a whole without any reference to the role of TNI.

6. Attempted manipulation of the region Osiris when it was under occupation by a rogue state, by dishonestly offering support to both sides and needlessly prolonging the conflict for its own benefit, which included leveraging its position to force Osiris to withdraw from the Pan-Sinker Security Pact and from the Founderless Regions Alliance, in what amounted to a blatant display of extortion.

Well if we buy this narrative, it wasn't merely "attempted" manipulation, it was successful manipulation of the highest order. But the debate over whether the UIAF's intervention in Osiris prolonged or reduced the length of the conflict is one that we will never honestly fully resolve. I masterminded the intervention and even I am not sure, because there are too many variables in these situations. Remember that the UIAF deployment was known by the Osiran leadership, who frankly had run out of ideas. No doubt it gave them a considerable morale boost knowing there was a definitive path to victory, whilst lulling the occupiers into a false sense of security.

All I know for sure is it gave UIAF control of the situation, which it used to restore the elected Pharaoh's rule, and show the entire NS world what we could do. Those are the facts.

Subsequently we have seen several GCR civil wars/conflicts where rebel Delegates have both managed to secure the region in perpetuity, and equally examples where people have blown it, from a similar military advantage to that of the Dourian Embassy in Osiris in summer 2013, so it's really difficult to be sure. Overall, it seems quite probable to me that without the UIAF intervention the Osiris coup would have been permanent.

Oh and Osiris was never in the Founderless Regions Alliance.

7. Military support for the tyrannical Khanate government in its coup and occupation of Lazarus, and being noticeably absent from a coalition of peacekeepers from most prominant regions who sought to restore peace, further demonstrating the LKE's consistent agenda of destabilising regions and their populations.

One could argue the "LKE's consistent agenda of imposing their will on regions and their populations through the violent application of military force" would be more consistent with the message of the rest of the resolution.

8. Forced assimilation of regions into the lethargic empire and/or personal trophy collection of the LKE, which include Ilum, Polis, Munster, The Imperial Legion, and Vienna.

Polis and Vienna were both founded by Lucius, the original Founder of LKE, so its hard to claim forced assimilation. I am sure there are examples of other regions held by LKE, that are factually correct, that were taken by forceful military occupations wherein the native nations were forcibly removed and resettled into TRR, and the region was absorbed into the Empire. Efforts could be made to provide such a list, but right now I’m beginning to think you’re more interested in smearing LKE than ascertaining the facts.

9. Attempted invasion of the noble and tenacious region of Moldavia no less than four times, all of which were rebuked, much to the embarrassment of the LKE's surprisingly incompetent military forces.

I can't remember the specifics of this operation, though if it was a case of incompetence, I'm surprised it was not something you commanded. Nonetheless, I have no doubt that Moldavia is very noble and tenacious indeed, to survive such a brutal onslaught, and should accordingly by permitted mention for holding out no less than 4 times. Also I feel the stress of these missions probably handicapped Moldavia's future and mention of that could be made, if thats the line you wanted to take, rather than focusing on LKE’s alleged “incompetence”.

10. Attempted blackmail of small innocent regions through the Green-Black Concordat, where such regions could either contribute militarily to the LKE's campaigns or be considered valid targets themselves.

Don't know the specifics on this, but I'll take your word for it.

11. Engagement of recruitment practices that are considered against inter-regional law, and subsequently blaming these actions on a scapegoated individual when ultimately caught and punished.

This is probably the single biggest affront and most offensive lie in this text. How on earth can you honestly sit there and call Bob Moran a scapegoat, given he single-handedly instigated the illegal recruitment and executed it without telling anyone else in LKE. He was punished to the full extent, and LKE went above and beyond to rectify the situation going forwards both for themselves and others. Using this to smear the personal integrity of LKE leadership when even our worst enemies back in 2015 didn’t stoop this low, is gross. You know damn well that Bob Moran was acting alone, and calling him a scapegoat is an outrageous misjustice, both falsely smearing the personal integrity of LKE leadership and equally dangerously rehabilitating Bob’s reputation.

12. Various other assorted affronts to the inter-regional community, such as having a garbage motto that its members feel the obnoxious need to post everywhere in entirely capital letters, and posting dispatches with broken amateurish coding.

[size=666][B]TERRA REGUM IMPERATORUMQUE TOTUM MUNDUM REGET![\b][\size]

*edited 13 times and still can't get it right*

---

- Wilhelm Somerset, Lord Protector of the LKE

[Xoriet]

[size=666][b]TERRA REGUM IMPERATORUMQUE TOTUM MUNDUM REGET![\b][\size]
*edited 12 times and still can't get it right*

[size=666]

LKE is true evil confirmed.

Code: Select all

[b][/b]

Code: Select all

[size][/size]