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[DEFEATED] Commend Confederation Of Corrupt Dictators

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Frisbeeteria
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Postby Frisbeeteria » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:19 pm

Armaros wrote:since you seem not to be aware of it yourself, i'm just gonna go ahead and point out that regions generally are commended not for ideology but for activity and good communities

Actually, they're commended or condemned for whateverthehell authors can convince other players to commend or condemn. If somebody can make a cogent and legal argument for commending someone because they hate ice cream (and convince voters to vote it in), that's fine with the rest of us.

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Dawn Kingdom
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Postby Dawn Kingdom » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:31 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Armaros wrote:since you seem not to be aware of it yourself, i'm just gonna go ahead and point out that regions generally are commended not for ideology but for activity and good communities

Actually, they're commended or condemned for whateverthehell authors can convince other players to commend or condemn. If somebody can make a cogent and legal argument for commending someone because they hate ice cream (and convince voters to vote it in), that's fine with the rest of us.


Here you have it. I bet there’s nothing more to discuss.

Hail the Confederation!!!

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Jocospor
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Postby Jocospor » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:29 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Armaros wrote:since you seem not to be aware of it yourself, i'm just gonna go ahead and point out that regions generally are commended not for ideology but for activity and good communities

Actually, they're commended or condemned for whateverthehell authors can convince other players to commend or condemn. If somebody can make a cogent and legal argument for commending someone because they hate ice cream (and convince voters to vote it in), that's fine with the rest of us.

Precisely. Look passed ideologies and government types. Our region provides a home for nations that none of you want. What, if it was up to you all, would you just cast these nations aside and leave them to cease to exist? But they fall into the minority! Aren't you all supposed to be inclusive and cater for even the tiniest groups of people?

If we dictators are scum, a disgrace, or any other label you might hurl at us, then you liberals and democrats are hypocrites.
HAIL THE CONFEDERATION!
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JOCOSPOR | FOREIGN AFFAIRS OFFICE


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Armaros
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Postby Armaros » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:22 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:
Armaros wrote:since you seem not to be aware of it yourself, i'm just gonna go ahead and point out that regions generally are commended not for ideology but for activity and good communities

Actually, they're commended or condemned for whateverthehell authors can convince other players to commend or condemn. If somebody can make a cogent and legal argument for commending someone because they hate ice cream (and convince voters to vote it in), that's fine with the rest of us.

I'm not saying they can't be commended for ideology. I'm saying they most of the time aren't.
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Sancta Romana Ecclesia
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Postby Sancta Romana Ecclesia » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:37 am

Fascism is merely "less conventional form of government" apparently.

Anyway, as much as I dislike the actions SC takes against fascist regions (neo-liberations, etc), it is out of no love for fascism. Quite frankly, such actions are ineffective since 1) liberation is only effective in a select few situations 2) condemnation has only effect on those players that would detest fascism or anything resembling it anyway. Needless to say, I am opposed to this draft, for the reason that I would be opposed to commending fascism irl. And that you have a right to maintain a region does not mean that SC should commend you for doing so. Neither does it mean that some injustice is done to you if (when) you are raided.

Also, I concur with the Armaros. Regions and nations are mostly commended for the things they have done, although sometimes ideology comes into it (e.g. this). That is also the reason why I am against. SC ought to commend established regions as a recognition, not recognize regions so they become established.
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Jocospor
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Postby Jocospor » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:49 am

Sancta Romana Ecclesia wrote:Fascism is merely "less conventional form of government" apparently.

Anyway, as much as I dislike the actions SC takes against fascist regions (neo-liberations, etc), it is out of no love for fascism. Quite frankly, such actions are ineffective since 1) liberation is only effective in a select few situations 2) condemnation has only effect on those players that would detest fascism or anything resembling it anyway. Needless to say, I am opposed to this draft, for the reason that I would be opposed to commending fascism irl. And that you have a right to maintain a region does not mean that SC should commend you for doing so. Neither does it mean that some injustice is done to you if (when) you are raided.

Also, I concur with the Armaros. Regions and nations are mostly commended for the things they have done, although sometimes ideology comes into it (e.g. this). That is also the reason why I am against. SC ought to commend established regions as a recognition, not recognize regions so they become established.

To respond:

Interesting that you've decided to bring up rights. People have been commended by the Security Council for exercising rights in the past - and, make no mistake, exercising a right is something someone "has done". Need an example? Regions have exercised their rights to take hostile actions against other regions, and labelled these actions as defensive measures to protect global stability. The very first regional commendation was actually based entirely off this aggressive foreign policy - oh, and because said region was "big" and "functional". Hmm. Go figure, hey.

So, we're quite prepared to celebrate and advocate for rights for LGBTQ+ people - but fascist nations can forget it? Why is that? Sure, fascism might upset a few people. Don't tell me LGBTQ+ communities haven't caused grief to numerous other communities. Don't bother bringing up the whole "good versus evil" argument.

Oh, and the Confederation is an established region, one that has been around for far longer than the nation you posted the above from. We'd like to think you governed another realm prior to Sancta Romana Ecclesia if you're going to give lectures on establishment.
HAIL THE CONFEDERATION!
CONFEDERATION OF CORRUPT DICTATORS | OFFICE OF THE VICEROY | DELEGATE'S OFFICE
JOCOSPOR | FOREIGN AFFAIRS OFFICE


"Destroy democracy. End degeneracy. Love your Emperor. Thou shalt know no fear."
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Sancta Romana Ecclesia
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Postby Sancta Romana Ecclesia » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:33 am

Jocospor wrote:To respond:

Interesting that you've decided to bring up rights. People have been commended by the Security Council for exercising rights in the past - and, make no mistake, exercising a right is something someone "has done". Need an example? Regions have exercised their rights to take hostile actions against other regions, and labelled these actions as defensive measures to protect global stability. The very first regional commendation was actually based entirely off this aggressive foreign policy - oh, and because said region was "big" and "functional". Hmm. Go figure, hey.

So, we're quite prepared to celebrate and advocate for rights for LGBTQ+ people - but fascist nations can forget it? Why is that? Sure, fascism might upset a few people. Don't tell me LGBTQ+ communities haven't caused grief to numerous other communities. Don't bother bringing up the whole "good versus evil" argument.

Oh, and the Confederation is an established region, one that has been around for far longer than the nation you posted the above from. We'd like to think you governed another realm prior to Sancta Romana Ecclesia if you're going to give lectures on establishment.

To do anything, you need to posses or claim the right to do said thing. You misconstrue my argument.

I do not and I have no intention to support LGBTQ+ through any WA institution. I only mentioned it, because it would be dishonest to say that the WA votes completely disregarding ideological issues. Sometimes it does not, as the case above.

Establishment is not counted in years, region could exist for three years and have little to show for. Which I think is the case here. This is not my first nation, but I think it goes neither hither nor thither to engage with you in an age measuring contest.
Last edited by Sancta Romana Ecclesia on Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jocospor
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Postby Jocospor » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:42 am

Sancta Romana Ecclesia wrote:To do anything, you need to posses or claim the right to do said thing. You misconstrue my argument.

I do not and I have no intention to support LGBTQ+ through any WA institution. I only mentioned it, because it would be dishonest to say that the WA votes completely disregarding ideological issues. Sometimes it does not, as the case above.

Establishment is not counted in years, region could exist for three years and have little to show for. Which I think is the case here. This is not my first nation, but I think it goes neither hither nor thither to engage with you in an age measuring contest.

You, too, clearly misconstrue our argument.

We are pleased to note that you did not bring up Gay's commendation in an attempt to aid your argument; we respect you for that.

If establishment is not counted in years then we're going to say that establishment is very difficult to assess. Just because our World Assembly endeavours haven't been successful as some others' doesn't mean we haven't cultivated a region with a rich history and a unique community. We resent the idea that you, having had no interaction with our region whatsoever prior to this Security Council motion, feel you are qualified to assess its import to NationStates.
HAIL THE CONFEDERATION!
CONFEDERATION OF CORRUPT DICTATORS | OFFICE OF THE VICEROY | DELEGATE'S OFFICE
JOCOSPOR | FOREIGN AFFAIRS OFFICE


"Destroy democracy. End degeneracy. Love your Emperor. Thou shalt know no fear."
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:43 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Aureumterra wrote:eight minutes?
You’re supposed to forum draft first, and let it sit on the forum for weeks until you submit it

I let it sit on the forum for exactly as long as needed to gather what I felt was a sufficient level of input from the WA community.

OOC: Yup, because eight minutes is sufficient time to get feedback on a draft before submitting it. Are you serious? :roll:
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:56 am

Jocospor wrote:
Sancta Romana Ecclesia wrote:To do anything, you need to posses or claim the right to do said thing. You misconstrue my argument.

I do not and I have no intention to support LGBTQ+ through any WA institution. I only mentioned it, because it would be dishonest to say that the WA votes completely disregarding ideological issues. Sometimes it does not, as the case above.

Establishment is not counted in years, region could exist for three years and have little to show for. Which I think is the case here. This is not my first nation, but I think it goes neither hither nor thither to engage with you in an age measuring contest.

You, too, clearly misconstrue our argument.

We are pleased to note that you did not bring up Gay's commendation in an attempt to aid your argument; we respect you for that.

If establishment is not counted in years then we're going to say that establishment is very difficult to assess. Just because our World Assembly endeavours haven't been successful as some others' doesn't mean we haven't cultivated a region with a rich history and a unique community. We resent the idea that you, having had no interaction with our region whatsoever prior to this Security Council motion, feel you are qualified to assess its import to NationStates.

Hate to break it to you, but mainstream players of NS don't like to associate with fascists, which in this proposal your region is proudly proclaiming to be.
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ShrewLlamaLand
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Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:38 am

Kuriko wrote:Hate to break it to you, but mainstream players of NS don't like to associate with fascists, which in this proposal your region is proudly proclaiming to be.

Isn't it a little ironic that you dislike fascism, but yet claim to speak on behalf of all "mainstream players of NS".

The New California Republic wrote:OOC: Yup, because eight minutes is sufficient time to get feedback on a draft before submitting it. Are you serious? :roll:

As I said earlier, it was sufficient to achieve the level of feedback on the draft that I desired. You can interpret that as you like.
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Caracasus
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Postby Caracasus » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:59 am

The Security Council,

Acknowleding the efforts made by the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators (herein the Confederation) in creating the most populous collective of fascist nations in the world;

Believing that the Security Council has the responsibility to recoginise contributions of regions founded on less conventional systems of government;

Applauding the great contributions made to the fascist community by the Confederation, in particular the efforts of the Supreme Council led by the regional founder, Jocospor;

Noting that the Confederation is an old region with a very rich history, which has recently seen immense growth and now ranks among the most populous regions in the world;

Admiring the great contributions of the Confederation to the World Assembly; in particular, by encouraging less-prominent factions within both the General Assembly and Security Council not to be misled by influental magnates;

Recognising that the Confederation has exercised its international power to promote the spread of fascism and dictatorial governance throughout the world, and in doing so has provided a new home for many hundreds of like-minded nations;

Hereby commends the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators.


Hmmm.... I'm seeing an awful lot of fluff - things like "great contributions" without any detail at all as to what those contributions are.... In fact, aside from the size of this region and its self proclaimed fascist ideology, there seems to be precious little about it that we can actually see referenced or check for ourselves at all.

I mean, if the only thing going for this region is its size, then it seems like it's even less worthy for commendation. You'd expect a region of 300 odd nations to at least have a couple of WA/SC resolutions, authored issues, gameplay raiding and defending accounts under their belt and referenced.

I'm not sure being able to purchase 30K recruitment TG stamps is particularly worth rewarding at all.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:05 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:OOC: Yup, because eight minutes is sufficient time to get feedback on a draft before submitting it. Are you serious? :roll:

As I said earlier, it was sufficient to achieve the level of feedback on the draft that I desired. You can interpret that as you like.

OOC: Sorry to say that I need to interpret it as complete shit, as there is no way that eight minutes is enough time to get feedback and do any editing before submitting it. Hell, most people won't even get a chance to see it within that time. Come on, you must admit that it was a bit ridiculous, surely you can see that?
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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Kuriko
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Postby Kuriko » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:27 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
Kuriko wrote:Hate to break it to you, but mainstream players of NS don't like to associate with fascists, which in this proposal your region is proudly proclaiming to be.

Isn't it a little ironic that you dislike fascism, but yet claim to speak on behalf of all "mainstream players of NS".

The New California Republic wrote:OOC: Yup, because eight minutes is sufficient time to get feedback on a draft before submitting it. Are you serious? :roll:

As I said earlier, it was sufficient to achieve the level of feedback on the draft that I desired. You can interpret that as you like.

I don't see where I said I speak on behalf of "all mainstream NS players", care to point out where I do? Like I said before, most of NS is anti-fascist, which includes most of the mainstream players.
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Xoriet
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Postby Xoriet » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:32 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:Isn't it a little ironic that you dislike fascism, but yet claim to speak on behalf of all "mainstream players of NS".

Hi, just recently raided a fascist region and have been raiding those or regularly ending fascist occupations of regions for months and years. Not even a Communist. Mainstream Gameplay won't lift a finger to give more acknowledgment to fascists than taking their trophies away or Liberating their home regions so they can't stop us from taking them down should their founders CTE. Don't expect any of us to support a region of fascists. :)
Last edited by Xoriet on Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aureumterra
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Postby Aureumterra » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:53 am

Xoriet wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:Isn't it a little ironic that you dislike fascism, but yet claim to speak on behalf of all "mainstream players of NS".

Hi, just recently raided a fascist region and have been raiding those or regularly ending fascist occupations of regions for months and years. Not even a Communist. Mainstream Gameplay won't lift a finger to give more acknowledgment to fascists than taking their trophies away or Liberating their home regions so they can't stop us from taking them down should their founders CTE. Don’t expect any of us to support a region of fascists. :)

Ya know, your region is the one deserving of a commendation
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Sancta Romana Ecclesia
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Postby Sancta Romana Ecclesia » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:07 am

Aureumterra wrote:Ya know, your region is the one deserving of a commendation

"let's commend NPO!"
No.

Anyway, being off-topic here :P
Last edited by Sancta Romana Ecclesia on Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ShrewLlamaLand
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Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:14 am

The New California Republic wrote:OOC: Sorry to say that I need to interpret it as complete shit, as there is no way that eight minutes is enough time to get feedback and do any editing before submitting it. Hell, most people won't even get a chance to see it within that time. Come on, you must admit that it was a bit ridiculous, surely you can see that?

As I've said multiple times now, it's more than enough time to get the level of feedback that I want from the forum. I'll give you another hint - that level of feedback is probably a touch less than is wanted on the average forum draft.

Kuriko wrote:I don't see where I said I speak on behalf of "all mainstream NS players", care to point out where I do? Like I said before, most of NS is anti-fascist, which includes most of the mainstream players.

By stating that most of NS is anti-fascist, you're effectively speaking on their behalf.

At that point let's not have a World Assembly, let's just let one person decide on behalf of everyone based on what they perceive to be the community's best interests... hang on a minute, that system of government sounds familiar...
Last edited by ShrewLlamaLand on Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Caracasus
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Postby Caracasus » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:39 am

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:OOC: Sorry to say that I need to interpret it as complete shit, as there is no way that eight minutes is enough time to get feedback and do any editing before submitting it. Hell, most people won't even get a chance to see it within that time. Come on, you must admit that it was a bit ridiculous, surely you can see that?

As I've said multiple times now, it's more than enough time to get the level of feedback that I want from the forum. I'll give you another hint - that level of feedback is probably a touch less than is wanted on the average forum draft.

Kuriko wrote:I don't see where I said I speak on behalf of "all mainstream NS players", care to point out where I do? Like I said before, most of NS is anti-fascist, which includes most of the mainstream players.

By stating that most of NS is anti-fascist, you're effectively speaking on their behalf.

At that point let's not have a World Assembly, let's just let one person decide on behalf of everyone based on what they perceive to be the community's best interests... hang on a minute, that system of government sounds familiar...


You probably should have waited longer, to be honest. As it stands, there are individual players more worthy of commendation based on what the ever shifting sort of consensus is on these things than your entire region. It's vague, doesn't go into detail and gives us no real references to actual things we can say are worth commending other than the size of the region.

I'm also not seeing the connection between someone stating that the SC is largely antifascist and them also being some sort of tyrant or even really speaking for everyone. I would read that more as a player giving their informed opinion on the matter at hand rather than a player dictating how others feel or think.
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Isvataan
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Postby Isvataan » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:04 pm

I ain't if fascists either but I also ain't a fan of communists, socialists, anarchists, theocrats, dictators and extremists (the left and the right).

In all honesty, I prefer the ideology that's for the people (like good old republics and democracies) and replace all government types with this ideology because all I mentioned and not mentioned are pretty terrible for Mankind.

But, since this site is suppose to have different and diverse beliefs and governments, then sure, lets commend it.

It would be nice to see less political correctness (because honestly, that's one of many reasons why there hasn't been any drafts dispense since July) and more uniqueness to the game (regardless if we disagree or agree with this commendation).

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Postby Marshite Ponies » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:11 pm

"This is a self-commend. That by itself is reason for it to not be given much weight, let alone the fact it seems to lack the sort of gravitas one would want behind a commendation. The only element even considered above-average is their size. Nothing else comes across as especially remarkable or commendable," Ambassador Sparkle said, looking over the proposal, "and that isn't even getting into the truly subjective territory or morality, which once again would be reason enough to oppose this. The Republic stands in opposition to this on grounds of merit and morality."
Last edited by Marshite Ponies on Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:46 pm

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:OOC: Sorry to say that I need to interpret it as complete shit, as there is no way that eight minutes is enough time to get feedback and do any editing before submitting it. Hell, most people won't even get a chance to see it within that time. Come on, you must admit that it was a bit ridiculous, surely you can see that?

As I've said multiple times now, it's more than enough time to get the level of feedback that I want from the forum. I'll give you another hint - that level of feedback is probably a touch less than is wanted on the average forum draft.

OOC: So you want no feedback at all and for this to fail miserably as a result? Fine by me, as the result will be that this will crash and burn...
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

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Lamoni
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Postby Lamoni » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:10 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
ShrewLlamaLand wrote:As I've said multiple times now, it's more than enough time to get the level of feedback that I want from the forum. I'll give you another hint - that level of feedback is probably a touch less than is wanted on the average forum draft.

OOC: So you want no feedback at all and for this to fail miserably as a result? Fine by me, as the result will be that this will crash and burn...


OOC: As it stands at present, the chances of this passing are very, very, very low.
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[04:20] * Yohannes enjoys having the position of being Lamoni's younger sister in NS


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Part of the Meow family in Gameplay, and a GORRAM MOD!

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The New California Republic
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9528
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Anarchy

Postby The New California Republic » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:12 pm

Lamoni wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:OOC: So you want no feedback at all and for this to fail miserably as a result? Fine by me, as the result will be that this will crash and burn...


OOC: As it stands at present, the chances of this passing are very, very, very low.

OOC: I know. I just don't see the point in posting a draft to the forum if they don't want feedback. It makes no sense.
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

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Ransium
Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 5483
Founded: Oct 17, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ransium » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:19 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Lamoni wrote:
OOC: As it stands at present, the chances of this passing are very, very, very low.

OOC: I know. I just don't see the point in posting a draft to the forum if they don't want feedback. It makes no sense.


Abraham: Do you bite your thumb at us, sir?
Sampson (to Gregory): Are the moderators on our side if I say ay?
Gregory: No.
Sampson: No, sir, I do not bite my thumb at you sir; but I bite my thumb, sir.

Commended by SC 236,
WA Delegate of Forest since March 20th, 2007.
Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, SC 233, SC 243, SC 265, GA 403, GA 439, GA 445.
Issues Editor since January 20th, 2017.
Author of 20 issues. First editor of 43.
Forum Moderator since November 10th, 2017. Game Moderator since March 15th, 2018.

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