NationStates

Hesskin Empire wrote:I am fully against. Self Commendation, not worthy even if you exclude that. Also it is fascist.

I suggest people just stop commenting on this publicity stunt and let it die on the assembly floor before even going to vote. That’s all.

No, I think it’ll reach the quorum, but like all of Jocospor’s previous proposals, be completely defeated with a wide margin

Jocospor wrote:We'll be expecting the moderators' intervention on this one, otherwise we'll know the game is engineered against us.

Jocospor wrote:We're most happy to inform this audience that we're not prepared to stoop to the level of manually reporting anyone.

You can either report stuff so that it is brought to moderator attention to review, or you can risk having actionable material not seen and addressed. You can't have it both ways.

Now, timeout, go grab a coffee or something folks, thread trawl in progress.

Jocospor wrote:That nation is a) an idiot

You've been told before that flaming in not acceptable conduct here. Dawn Kingdom's behavior does not give you a free pass to flame them.

*** Jocospor, 1-day ban for flaming. ***

Christ Triumphant wrote:OOC:

This is just the latest example of trolling from similarly-minded nations that I've seen recently.

Then why weren't you reporting it in the appropriate forum for the moderators to address? The only place where calling someone out for trolling is in the Moderation forum, NOT as a way to shut down one's opponents in a debate. You can attack the proposal without that, learn to do so.

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:Dictatorial nations need to stand strong and united in spite of the trolling from this huge coalition of liberal scum.

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:meanwhile the other half are flaming our region for being fascists.

You need to review the site rules. You can argue with your detractors without resorting to trolling/flaming and calling your opponents scum. Given your persistently flippant responses to people, even those trying to give you helpful feedback on navigating the SC's notoriously tricky currents, I'm almost inclined to believe you're intentionally trying to rile people up. However, as you have a clean record so far, I'm letting you off with only an unofficial warning for trolling/flaming. I suggest you review the site rules linked previously, as well as spend some time reviewing the various pinned advice threads regarding the SC in particular.

Additionally, as I just yelled at Christ Triumphant for above, the only place you should be making accusations that someone is flaming/trolling/otherwise breaking the site rules is to the moderators so that it can be dealt with accordingly. Not as a tool to try and discredit or denigrate your detractors.

Jocospor wrote:

The New California Republic wrote:OOC: The entire thing is a shameless publicity ploy, I mean it is a self-commendation for fuck's sake, it is so unbelievably self-serving...

We'll be expecting the moderators' intervention on this one, otherwise we'll know the game is engineered against us.

It is still an attack and criticism of the proposal, not on any player. This is not mod-actionable. Proposals and the author's motivations get ripped to shreds all the time.

As for the rest of the thread, the temperature could stand to be dialed back a few degrees in general. The sniping is getting a bit much. Make your arguments and move on.

Thread will be unlocked after I finish filing the paperwork. And done.


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

Against.

Against

This reached queue. Hopefully it will get campaigned out or something.

Anyway, against.

Fauxia wrote:This reached queue. Hopefully it will get campaigned out or something.

Anyway, against.

Personally, I prefer to see it stomped into oblivion

I approve!
HEIL!

Lord Dominator wrote:

Fauxia wrote:This reached queue. Hopefully it will get campaigned out or something.

Anyway, against.

Personally, I prefer to see it stomped into oblivion

By the TNP vote thread, I'd say that they're already set to stomp against.

Kuriko wrote:

Lord Dominator wrote:Personally, I prefer to see it stomped into oblivion

By the TNP vote thread, I'd say that they're already set to stomp against.

I'd be rather worried if they weren't

Nay

Totally against.

This abomination of a resolution is not at vote, and the stomping has begun

The word "against" doesn't anywhere near describe how I feel about this proposal.

Can't wait to see this fail. This entire vote is a waste of the WASC's time and energy.

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:

Armaros wrote:This isn't gonna pass anyway, drafting or not. The SC is generally made up of decent people who don't support fascism. In fact, every major region will stomp this. Why bother? Drop it already please, and you can go spread your hate in your own region. I've complained that the SC were inactive the last few weeks, but I didn't ask for fash trash to show up. And also, if the proposal didn't make clear you guys are fascists, then your campaigning certainly did. I doubt it will even pass delegate approval, and if it does, it will get destroyed.

Thank you for your valuable input. I'm glad that despite claiming you're strongly opposed to fascism, you've ultimately decided that your own personal opinion trumps the yet-to-be-determined collective opinion of the Security Council.

It'll be determined, dramatically against you.

How this farcical attempt at a self-commendation was considered legal I do not know. No matter, it shall be smashed on the floor with an overwhelming majority.

Jocospor wrote:

Sancta Romana Ecclesia wrote:Fascism is merely "less conventional form of government" apparently.

Anyway, as much as I dislike the actions SC takes against fascist regions (neo-liberations, etc), it is out of no love for fascism. Quite frankly, such actions are ineffective since 1) liberation is only effective in a select few situations 2) condemnation has only effect on those players that would detest fascism or anything resembling it anyway. Needless to say, I am opposed to this draft, for the reason that I would be opposed to commending fascism irl. And that you have a right to maintain a region does not mean that SC should commend you for doing so. Neither does it mean that some injustice is done to you if (when) you are raided.

Also, I concur with the Armaros. Regions and nations are mostly commended for the things they have done, although sometimes ideology comes into it (e.g. this). That is also the reason why I am against. SC ought to commend established regions as a recognition, not recognize regions so they become established.

To respond:

Interesting that you've decided to bring up rights. People have been commended by the Security Council for exercising rights in the past - and, make no mistake, exercising a right is something someone "has done". Need an example? Regions have exercised their rights to take hostile actions against other regions, and labelled these actions as defensive measures to protect global stability. The very first regional commendation was actually based entirely off this aggressive foreign policy - oh, and because said region was "big" and "functional". Hmm. Go figure, hey.

So, we're quite prepared to celebrate and advocate for rights for LGBTQ+ people - but fascist nations can forget it? Why is that? Sure, fascism might upset a few people. Don't tell me LGBTQ+ communities haven't caused grief to numerous other communities. Don't bother bringing up the whole "good versus evil" argument...

Unless you can point to cogent, concrete examples of this, this point is as nonsensical as it is irrelevant. This is still a shameless, self-serving attempt at a self-commendation by a group that has done nothing to deserve it, with a farcical eight minutes of debate time before it went to the floor. Either leave it there long enough to have it properly critiqued, or don't bother, as it'll likely be voted down en masse simply as punishment for wasting everybody's time, if nothing else.

No.

Just saying that you are fascist and using that as a major point instead of actual contributions to GP or the WA guarantees the proposal to be stomped.

And no, having 300 or so nations is not much of an achievement.

*ahem*
eight minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSUy2JI ... e=youtu.be

Spreading fascism is not commendable.
Against.

Against.

We cannot believe anyone thought the items in this bill was worthy of a commendation.

Against, not because of the dictatorial support (we ourselves are a dictatorship) nor because of its fascist leanings, but because we just can't see enough contribution to the general community, nor enough evidence to support the Commendation's claims, to warrant said Commendation being passed. In our view, merely having an old region, attracting others to join that region, and enjoying a period of growth is not sufficient to earn a commendation, particularly where it only serves to further the interests of one ideological branch rather than contributing to the international community as a whole.

Huh. So, we can commend gay people for no real particular reason, but when it's fascists, everybody just raise their hands with their palms open in the air and wave them, while repeatedly saying "no"? It's just a plain, simple decision to increase freedom of expression and make sure every opinion is not feared, but respected to a certain degree. Or, at least, it seems so in my opinion.

"Honored Representative from Basileustan, this is a commendation. That means we are being asked to commend the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators based upon the merits presented in the proposal. We are not asked to 'even out' the ideological bent of the commended nations and regions. The merits in the proposal are weak. None of them stand apart from any other with the exception of the size of the region, which is not itself entirely exceptional.

None of the claims aside from the number of nations makes it appear unique. The claims are large, mind you. Great contributions to the fascist community? Show us this. What contributions to the World Assembly? No evidence is detailed. An old region with a rich history? Three years is hardly old in the history of NationStates and far from notable, and what detail in its history makes it rich? How has it influenced the spread of fascism across the world?

This proposal is riddled with claims that are provided with no supporting evidence. It comes across as a hastily written proposal in which no care was given to its quality. It fails on an objective quality long before any subjective debate upon the merits of commending a fascist region can even be broached. And even before we get to fascism, the fact that this is a self-commendation written and submitted with nary a care for the feedback of the World Assembly engenders little respect for its arguments already," Ambassador Twilight Sparkle said before reaching out with her magic to pick up a quill. She began writing something else, even as she continued talking.

"Subjectively, it is almost impossible to imagine the World Assembly, or the Republic of Akila, approving the commendation of a fascist region that seems to do nothing of great, exceptional quality. Maybe being fascist makes such a hill harder to climb, but such is subjectivity. The Confederation has every right to be the region it is, and those who run it can be more than proud from an administrative point of view if nothing else. But none of that points to it deserving a commendation. The Republic of Akila has voted against this proposal on objective grounds of merit and the subjective nature of its total disagreement with fascist ideologies. Have a Harmonious day."

Basileustan wrote:Huh. So, we can commend gay people for no real particular reason, but when it's fascists, everybody just raise their hands with their palms open in the air and wave them, while repeatedly saying "no"? It's just a plain, simple decision to increase freedom of expression and make sure every opinion is not feared, but respected to a certain degree. Or, at least, it seems so in my opinion.

Full text of Gay's commendation. I am going to colour code this to help people understand a bit better.

In blue I have highlighted where this resolution has been proposed by someone other than the target region - a key argument against this is that it's a piece of shameless self promotion. This proposal was made by the region that is for commendation.

In read I have highlighted where it shows that Gay has done something other than simply be a large region. They were involved in military gameplay and involved in raising awareness of issues facing members of their community.

The target region here has simply been around a while(ish) and has a large number of members. They haven't done anything else - or rather if they have it simply hasn't been recorded or noted in the draft in any real way that we can check.

Honestly, let's not give out commendations for being overly large and not doing much.

A resolution to recognize outstanding contribution by a nation or region.

Category: Commendation

Nominee: Gay

Proposed by: Cormactopia Prime

The Security Council:

Recognizing Gay as the largest and oldest extant region that offers a home and safe haven explicitly for LGBTQ+ people, and which has tirelessly advocated for the acceptance of LGBTQ+ people and for LGBTQ+ rights;

Acknowledging that, like most communities, Gay has had to constantly work toward greater inclusivity and intersectionality, having once limited involvement in the community and government of the region based on military alignment;

Applauding Gay's recent decision to constitutionally mandate the region's military neutrality, to explicitly reject discrimination based on military alignment, and to ensure that all LGBTQ+ people can participate in the regional community and government regardless of alignment;

Celebrating Gay's history of LGBTQ+ advocacy, dating back to regional support for NSUN Resolution #12, entitled "Gay Rights," among the earliest international legislation to address the rights of LGBTQ+ people;

Praising Gay's commitment to opposing intolerance and bigotry against LGBTQ+ people not only by condemning such behavior, but also by offering educational resources to encourage greater understanding of LGBTQ+ people and the issues they face;

Honoring Gay's history as a defender region and the region's participation in the defense of vulnerable regions against unjust invasion as a member region of the now-defunct Founderless Regions Alliance;

Lauding Gay for remaining committed to the protection of LGBTQ+ related regions and, according to Gay's regional constitution, continuing to take "an active interest in their well-being and continued flourishing";

Congratulating Gay for its storied history as the premier LGBTQ+ region in the world, and for remaining committed to progressive reform and growth so that it may better fulfill its mission to promote LGBTQ+ acceptance and the rights of LGBTQ+ people;

Hereby Commends Gay.

Additionally, this website provides welcome to fascists. Fascists are allowed here, and to some extent they are allowed to promote their.... ideology provided they're smart enough to read and follow the rules. That is all that any kind of freedom of expression guarantees.

There is absolutely no case whatsoever to demand or even ask that anyone takes proponents of fascism seriously or even offers it a modicum of respect. It doesn't deserve it and if NS players decide that they want to use this vote to restate for the nth time that they don't like fascists much that is not some sort of terrible injustice - it is simply a refusal to commend a group of self proclaimed fascists. This website may tolerate fascists existing on it, it doesn't have to like the ideology or treat it with respect.