NationStates

The Empire of Dramancass appeals to all member nations of the World Assembly to reject this proposed ban on capital punishment. It is the hope of Emperor Jadus and the people of Dramancass that the member nations of the World Assembly shall see reason and recognize this resolution as a clear violation against national sovereignty, and an attempt by certain member nations to impose their personal convictions (religious or otherwise) on the World Assembly in its entirety. If this resolution is passed, the Empire of Dramancass shall withdrawal from the World Assembly in protest. Our Supreme Majesty, Emperor Jadus, petitions all member nations who value sovereignty and independence to follow suit should this resolution be passed.

Xanthal wrote:

Hamstan wrote:"I, Oscar Hamer, representative of the Confederacy of Hamstan, here in the presence of these witnesses, do hereby state Hamstan's intentions to draft a repeal for GA #438, therefore rescinding GA #375 back into international law, believing that both the resolution at vote, as well as GA #438, violate national sovereignty. With the passing of GA #438, there are now no international laws governing capital punishment. This will not stand. Should this resolution fail, the assembly should do what is just and strike down GA #438 as well."

OOC: Can't repeal repeals, though it might be funny if we could.

OOC: I thought you could. The thing that you can't do is repeal a resolution to revive the resolution it repealed - once something's repealed, it's gone.

Dramancass wrote:The Empire of Dramancass appeals to all member nations of the World Assembly to reject this proposed ban on capital punishment. It is the hope of Emperor Jadus and the people of Dramancass that the member nations of the World Assembly shall see reason and recognize this resolution as a clear violation against national sovereignty, and an attempt by certain member nations to impose their personal convictions (religious or otherwise) on the World Assembly in its entirety. If this resolution is passed, the Empire of Dramancass shall withdrawal from the World Assembly in protest. Our Supreme Majesty, Emperor Jadus, petitions all member nations who value sovereignty and independence to follow suit should this resolution be passed.

If it does pass, and you do leave, can I have your stapler, old bean. Mine's broken and you wouldn't believe the Red tape and forms you have to fill out from Building Management to get a replacement.
Excelsior,
Sen. Horatio Sulla

Separatist Peoples wrote:

The Sect Meces wrote:
OOC: Nothing's stopping it.

OOC: GAR#9 does. So does the Patient Rights Act.

OOC: Crap you're right.

"Why is this still being debated?",sighs Ambassador Irons.
"The Capital Punishment is a necessity and those nations who dare call others who practice it "barbarians" they are mere pretenders whose criminals are still running lose and are afraid to arrest them cause "muh feelings"."says the Ambassador, ironically.
"Some lives need to be taken, because these people are irredeemable. They are traitors, rapists, murderers. One may wonder, when does this end. I answer them when there is no more crime, when people can live without fear and not lose their parents to some thug with a gun. I have read stories on other nations that don't have the Capital Punishment, and it sickens me that those people are ruled by indecision and cowardice. The Capital Punishment serves as a means of example. That if a citizen breaks the law by committing one of the aforementioned crimes, neither the state nor the honest tax payer will house them in a prison cell."
He cracks a little smile
"When Earth united under the Alliance, monarchs and corrupt officials tried to stop this. When they were revealed, the world uproared. The monarchs and the corrupt officials were presented before a court. Some said we should execute them, that their greed and lust cost the lives of millions. Instead, we put them to work. They built with their own hands roads, homes, bridges. And they begged for the Capital Punishment. They redeemed themselves, so we granted it to them. Now, the Alliance has come a long way from being a corrupt state. There were those of the royals who didn't work. They were killed, they served their purpose as messengers. They were criminals, traitors of the people and the Republic. And they were treated as such. They had become a threat, and they were dealt with. To those nations that support the Ban, I tell this: your will is weak, because it can't take a strong decision against criminals. But when a deviant, for example, rapes and kills your family, will you still be pro-ban?"

The Earth Systems Alliance wrote:"Why is this still being debated?",sighs Ambassador Irons.
"The Capital Punishment is a necessity and those nations who dare call others who practice it "barbarians" they are mere pretenders whose criminals are still running lose and are afraid to arrest them cause "muh feelings"."says the Ambassador, ironically.
"Some lives need to be taken, because these people are irredeemable. They are traitors, rapists, murderers. One may wonder, when does this end. I answer them when there is no more crime, when people can live without fear and not lose their parents to some thug with a gun. I have read stories on other nations that don't have the Capital Punishment, and it sickens me that those people are ruled by indecision and cowardice. The Capital Punishment serves as a means of example. That if a citizen breaks the law by committing one of the aforementioned crimes, neither the state nor the honest tax payer will house them in a prison cell."
He cracks a little smile
"When Earth united under the Alliance, monarchs and corrupt officials tried to stop this. When they were revealed, the world uproared. The monarchs and the corrupt officials were presented before a court. Some said we should execute them, that their greed and lust cost the lives of millions. Instead, we put them to work. They built with their own hands roads, homes, bridges. And they begged for the Capital Punishment. They redeemed themselves, so we granted it to them. Now, the Alliance has come a long way from being a corrupt state. There were those of the royals who didn't work. They were killed, they served their purpose as messengers. They were criminals, traitors of the people and the Republic. And they were treated as such. They had become a threat, and they were dealt with. To those nations that support the Ban, I tell this: your will is weak, because it can't take a strong decision against criminals. But when a deviant, for example, rapes and kills your family, will you still be pro-ban?"

"What can I say, he's right."

The Sect Meces wrote:

Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: GAR#9 does. So does the Patient Rights Act.

OOC: Crap you're right.

OOC: in the future, assume I am presumptively right.

Thyerata wrote:

Xanthal wrote:OOC: Can't repeal repeals, though it might be funny if we could.

OOC: I thought you could. The thing that you can't do is repeal a resolution to revive the resolution it repealed - once something's repealed, it's gone.

Ooc: it's not just illegal, its mechanically impossible. Try to find the repeal button on a repeal.

The Earth Systems Alliance wrote:"Why is this still being debated?",sighs Ambassador Irons.
"The Capital Punishment is a necessity and those nations who dare call others who practice it "barbarians" they are mere pretenders whose criminals are still running lose and are afraid to arrest them cause "muh feelings"."says the Ambassador, ironically.
"Some lives need to be taken, because these people are irredeemable. They are traitors, rapists, murderers. One may wonder, when does this end. I answer them when there is no more crime, when people can live without fear and not lose their parents to some thug with a gun. I have read stories on other nations that don't have the Capital Punishment, and it sickens me that those people are ruled by indecision and cowardice.

"I am sorry, but what criminals? Our criminals are all imprisoned unless you are insinuating that you have a very low bar before individuals are convicted. We simply realize that capital punishment does little to deter crime but also abhor the infringement of the most basic of human rights. We are not God and therefore we cannot know, without error, whether an individual is actually guilty. By your own words you have suggested you are more than happy to kill many innocents just to ensure that you kill off what you perceive to be the most heinous of crimes. Ad we have made no suggestion that we hesitate to arrest individuals, that is simply a fabrication on your part with so substantive foundation. Being unwilling to kill a man is very different from being unwilling to take him off the streets to rehabilitate him and protect other citizens." The archbishop says glaring at the ambassador. "Besides crime will almost certainly always exist, or at least until the end-of-days. Our unwillingness to execute however is not cowardice or indecision. We have chosen to value human rights and by that merit we cannot take another life as a punitive measure, this notably is different from killing an individual to save a life that is being directly threatened at that very second. We are not against the second of these situations, merely the first. Furthermore it sickens us that you are so bloodthirsty that you cannot see the value in protecting the innocent from execution. Regardless of the strength of your court system, there will undoubtedly be innocents who fall through the cracks and you show no regard for these lives or the people who were close to that innocent."

Arasi Luvasa wrote:

The Earth Systems Alliance wrote:"Why is this still being debated?",sighs Ambassador Irons.
"The Capital Punishment is a necessity and those nations who dare call others who practice it "barbarians" they are mere pretenders whose criminals are still running lose and are afraid to arrest them cause "muh feelings"."says the Ambassador, ironically.
"Some lives need to be taken, because these people are irredeemable. They are traitors, rapists, murderers. One may wonder, when does this end. I answer them when there is no more crime, when people can live without fear and not lose their parents to some thug with a gun. I have read stories on other nations that don't have the Capital Punishment, and it sickens me that those people are ruled by indecision and cowardice.

"I am sorry, but what criminals? Our criminals are all imprisoned unless you are insinuating that you have a very low bar before individuals are convicted. We simply realize that capital punishment does little to deter crime but also abhor the infringement of the most basic of human rights. We are not God and therefore we cannot know, without error, whether an individual is actually guilty. By your own words, you have suggested you are more than happy to kill many innocents just to ensure that you kill off what you perceive to be the most heinous of crimes. Ad we have made no suggestion that we hesitate to arrest individuals, that is simply a fabrication on your part with so substantive foundation. Being unwilling to kill a man is very different from being unwilling to take him off the streets to rehabilitate him and protect other citizens." The archbishop says glaring at the ambassador. "Besides crime will almost certainly always exist, or at least until the end-of-days. Our unwillingness to execute however is not cowardice or indecision. We have chosen to value human rights and by that merit, we cannot take another life as a punitive measure, this notably is different from killing an individual to save a life that is being directly threatened at that very second. We are not against the second of these situations, merely the first. Furthermore, it sickens us that you are so bloodthirsty that you cannot see the value in protecting the innocent from execution. Regardless of the strength of your court system, there will undoubtedly be innocents who fall through the cracks and you show no regard for these lives or the people who were close to that innocent."

"So you don't kill consistent rapists and mass murderers? Those that don't want to be changed? Alright, fine by me!"

A letter comes in from Garnet Rose, straight to the World Assembly, with all stamps from The Rift's General Assembly and Security Council. It reads as follows:

To the honourable World Assembly,

Capital Punishment, as we describe and define it, is execution during time of imprisonment. But what if the definition is different for another nation, with different vocabulary. What if Capital Punishment, for a nation, means death in prison in general? If that nation classifies the death as Capital Punishment, does that not mean we are, outright, banning imprisonment? I raise this question do we truly need to have prisons, if majority of deaths happen there?

With this, I leave you adue,

Garnet Rose

Arasi Luvasa wrote:

The Earth Systems Alliance wrote:"Why is this still being debated?",sighs Ambassador Irons.
"The Capital Punishment is a necessity and those nations who dare call others who practice it "barbarians" they are mere pretenders whose criminals are still running lose and are afraid to arrest them cause "muh feelings"."says the Ambassador, ironically.
"Some lives need to be taken, because these people are irredeemable. They are traitors, rapists, murderers. One may wonder, when does this end. I answer them when there is no more crime, when people can live without fear and not lose their parents to some thug with a gun. I have read stories on other nations that don't have the Capital Punishment, and it sickens me that those people are ruled by indecision and cowardice.

"I am sorry, but what criminals? Our criminals are all imprisoned unless you are insinuating that you have a very low bar before individuals are convicted. We simply realize that capital punishment does little to deter crime but also abhor the infringement of the most basic of human rights. We are not God and therefore we cannot know, without error, whether an individual is actually guilty. By your own words you have suggested you are more than happy to kill many innocents just to ensure that you kill off what you perceive to be the most heinous of crimes. Ad we have made no suggestion that we hesitate to arrest individuals, that is simply a fabrication on your part with so substantive foundation. Being unwilling to kill a man is very different from being unwilling to take him off the streets to rehabilitate him and protect other citizens." The archbishop says glaring at the ambassador. "Besides crime will almost certainly always exist, or at least until the end-of-days. Our unwillingness to execute however is not cowardice or indecision. We have chosen to value human rights and by that merit we cannot take another life as a punitive measure, this notably is different from killing an individual to save a life that is being directly threatened at that very second. We are not against the second of these situations, merely the first. Furthermore it sickens us that you are so bloodthirsty that you cannot see the value in protecting the innocent from execution. Regardless of the strength of your court system, there will undoubtedly be innocents who fall through the cracks and you show no regard for these lives or the people who were close to that innocent."

Well congratulations, you imprison the worst scum humanity has to offer, on VALUABLE TAX PAYER DOLLAR NO LESS, letting them live the remainder of their lives in an overall content existence. Care to argue to the contrary? Unless your prisons are proper internment camps, they are getting a minimum of two square meals a day, do not have to work to pay for room and board, have functioning bathing and medical facilities (again paid for by your TAX PAYERS MONEY that could be allocated elsewhere) just because you feel like you have taken the 'moral high ground'. You argue that Capital Punishment causes innocent blood to be shed, but how many pedophiles who have raped pre-schoolers, or traitors who have leaked government secrets to not only the media but your political and military enemies, or mass murderers who have body counts larger than most men and women in your armed services even during wartime, or mayhaps even serial rapists who have left countless men and women with their own human rights violated to the most base of degrees have slipped through YOUR justice system when they were infact guilty and you were too afraid to pull the trigger? Many people who try to take your little moral high ground often say 'an eye for an eye makes the world blind', however with this proposal, the World Assembly is trying to impose and force their own views on many nations own sovereignty. We in Demiurges, honestly do not intend to make a proposal forcing other nations to surrender their sovereignty of their justice systems to our ideals, much as the idea appeals to us. HOWEVER, we expect that these Leftist ideals not be shoved upon nations who have no desire to play 'nice' with our criminals simply because the World Assembly deems justice too great a luxury to be dealt upon irredeemable scum!

Demiurges wrote:

Arasi Luvasa wrote:
"I am sorry, but what criminals? Our criminals are all imprisoned unless you are insinuating that you have a very low bar before individuals are convicted. We simply realize that capital punishment does little to deter crime but also abhor the infringement of the most basic of human rights. We are not God and therefore we cannot know, without error, whether an individual is actually guilty. By your own words you have suggested you are more than happy to kill many innocents just to ensure that you kill off what you perceive to be the most heinous of crimes. Ad we have made no suggestion that we hesitate to arrest individuals, that is simply a fabrication on your part with so substantive foundation. Being unwilling to kill a man is very different from being unwilling to take him off the streets to rehabilitate him and protect other citizens." The archbishop says glaring at the ambassador. "Besides crime will almost certainly always exist, or at least until the end-of-days. Our unwillingness to execute however is not cowardice or indecision. We have chosen to value human rights and by that merit we cannot take another life as a punitive measure, this notably is different from killing an individual to save a life that is being directly threatened at that very second. We are not against the second of these situations, merely the first. Furthermore it sickens us that you are so bloodthirsty that you cannot see the value in protecting the innocent from execution. Regardless of the strength of your court system, there will undoubtedly be innocents who fall through the cracks and you show no regard for these lives or the people who were close to that innocent."

Well congratulations, you imprison the worst scum humanity has to offer, on VALUABLE TAX PAYER DOLLAR NO LESS, letting them live the remainder of their lives in an overall content existence. Care to argue to the contrary? Unless your prisons are proper internment camps, they are getting a minimum of two square meals a day, do not have to work to pay for room and board, have functioning bathing and medical facilities (again paid for by your TAX PAYERS MONEY that could be allocated elsewhere) just because you feel like you have taken the 'moral high ground'. You argue that Capital Punishment causes innocent blood to be shed, but how many pedophiles who have raped pre-schoolers, or traitors who have leaked government secrets to not only the media but your political and military enemies, or mass murderers who have body counts larger than most men and women in your armed services even during wartime, or mayhaps even serial rapists who have left countless men and women with their own human rights violated to the most base of degrees have slipped through YOUR justice system when they were infact guilty and you were too afraid to pull the trigger? Many people who try to take your little moral high ground often say 'an eye for an eye makes the world blind', however with this proposal, the World Assembly is trying to impose and force their own views on many nations own sovereignty. We in Demiurges, honestly do not intend to make a proposal forcing other nations to surrender their sovereignty of their justice systems to our ideals, much as the idea appeals to us. HOWEVER, we expect that these Leftist ideals not be shoved upon nations who have no desire to play 'nice' with our criminals simply because the World Assembly deems justice too great a luxury to be dealt upon irredeemable scum!

Here Here!

"The Wastelands will never follow this doctrine if it is passed. We will do as we so will please if it does."
-The sole Survivor

August 12, 2018- Executive Mansion, Galdoria, United States of Illemenia

To the esteemed, august body of the World Assembly;
Relating to this matter of Capital Punishmrnt, I, the President of this nation have my own opinions. In Illemenia, Capital Punishment is illegal because it violates our national value that all people have the right to life, and that the taking of life who has violated another is reminiscent of the ancient codes which spoke of "an eye for an eye". While I, and the vast majority of Illemenia feel the same way, I do not want to force my beliefs and values on other people's, who may have good reason to have such punishments. While I deeply disapprove of Capital Punishment, I believe that nations have the right to determine their own stance on this matter. Forcing a particular agenda on sovereign states will only prompt an exodus from the body, so while the vote appears to have failed, I recommend that the sovereign rights of individual governments should be protected, and at the current moment, I feel that they are in jeopardy. I hope you take this into consideration.
-President Gold

The Against faction is nearing victory. At this point, there is little more need for debate on the matter.

The Confederation is currently pondering its next move.

President Wilhelm is pleased to see that the nations of the WA have choosen to protect their right to punish the most degenerate of criminals as they see fit. Now the convicts of Ardiveds can rest easy knowing they shall not be banished to deserted islands but will hang proudly in their own nation.

I do hope when the vote for the ban on Capital Punishment fails which is now certain it will, we who voted against the ban do hope those who voted for the ban can gracefully stop pushing the agenda to have it banned.

I have an inkling they will try to push the agenda some way, morr than likely a little at a time instrad of a full ban until they get what they want.

The yes camp needs to respect the will of the World Assembly, if you dont like capital punishment dont have it as an option in your nation.

Nuclear Wastelands wrote:"The Wastelands will never follow this doctrine if it is passed. We will do as we so will please if it does."
-The sole Survivor

(OOC: Once again, the ACA (Administrative Compliance Act) exists which will fine any nation that does not comply with a GA resolution. This is a moot point as this proposal looks set to, unfortunately from my point of view, fail at the vote, but it’s still important to not just ignore WA law. There are ways of noncomplying well, but just using Nat-Sov isn’t one of them.)

The Great Emperor of the Holy Empire of Deosdora sits on his chair, drinking the most expensive of wines.

"Capital Punishment is something necessary. Why? Because there are people who do not deserve to live. People who have committed heinous crimes. I will not waste the money my citizens worked hard for and payed as taxes to keep those scums alive. If anything, capital punishment is a form of mercy. Because if there were no capital punishment, barren islands will be full, prisoners will go and starve. Catch my drift?"

Deosdora wrote:The Great Emperor of the Holy Empire of Deosdora sits on his chair, drinking the most expensive of wines.

"Capital Punishment is something necessary. Why? Because there are people who do not deserve to live. People who have committed heinous crimes. I will not waste the money my citizens worked hard for and payed as taxes to keep those scums alive. If anything, capital punishment is a form of mercy. Because if there were no capital punishment, barren islands will be full, prisoners will go and starve. Catch my drift?"

"And you have the authority, the right to say who those people are? with all your flaws and lacking qualities?"

This is important to know, because soon Jesus will return to earth and collect what belongs to Him. He will defeat the followers of Satan and claim His elect for Himself. Ultimately, Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire and “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10). Afterward, Jesus will judge unbelievers according to what they have done during their lives. Anyone whose name is not found written in the Book of Life is thrown into the lake of fire where Satan and his minions will be by that time (Revelation 20:13, 15). Hell and death are also thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14), so, technically speaking, at no time does Satan reside in hell. But he will be confined permanently in a very hot place that could be called a “hellish” location, to be tormented eternally.

Other words even Satan himself was contained, restricted, seized, locked down, chained, tormented & what not anything else but not killed.

Life is the first law & everything spiral around it. Purpouse of life is the life itself. Capital punishment is against the creation itself. Its the easy escape for serpent while he laughing to the face of puppet who don't understand it.

Enjoy lads.

Kenmoria wrote:

Nuclear Wastelands wrote:"The Wastelands will never follow this doctrine if it is passed. We will do as we so will please if it does."
-The sole Survivor

(OOC: Once again, the ACA (Administrative Compliance Act) exists which will fine any nation that does not comply with a GA resolution. This is a moot point as this proposal looks set to, unfortunately from my point of view, fail at the vote, but it’s still important to not just ignore WA law. There are ways of noncomplying well, but just using Nat-Sov isn’t one of them.)

(OOC: Reviewing ACA, it is rather toothless. Short of actually expelling a non-compliant state, there's nothing the WA can do to force compliance.)

Blackledge wrote:

Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: Once again, the ACA (Administrative Compliance Act) exists which will fine any nation that does not comply with a GA resolution. This is a moot point as this proposal looks set to, unfortunately from my point of view, fail at the vote, but it’s still important to not just ignore WA law. There are ways of noncomplying well, but just using Nat-Sov isn’t one of them.)

(OOC: Reviewing ACA, it is rather toothless. Short of actually expelling a non-compliant state, there's nothing the WA can do to force compliance.)

(OOC: It’s the best possible resolution given that it would be illegal to expel a member from the WA or punish the man with anything gameplay wise due to the game mechanics rule. The WA may not be able to force compliance, but it is poor role playing to ignore GA resolutions without a good response to the challenges the ACA brings.)

Kenmoria wrote:

Blackledge wrote:(OOC: Reviewing ACA, it is rather toothless. Short of actually expelling a non-compliant state, there's nothing the WA can do to force compliance.)

(OOC: It’s the best possible resolution given that it would be illegal to expel a member from the WA or punish the man with anything gameplay wise due to the game mechanics rule. The WA may not be able to force compliance, but it is poor role playing to ignore GA resolutions without a good response to the challenges the ACA brings.)

(OOC: Thing is, the challenges really aren't all that much. The GAO has no way to enforce payment of fines levied by the IAO. The only real meat to the resolution is getting other WA states to enforce sanctions, and given the sheer size of the WA and the diversity of its member-states there's no real way of making sure the right states (if any) are imposing sanctions. Some nations are even autarkies, so there's no pressure there. If roleplay takes into account that the WA can't force members out, then that's about it for consequences. The fines can stack up, but GAO can't enforce them, nations can't be expelled, and a violator may not have any sanctioners or even be in a position where sanctions matter. *shrugs*)

Blackledge wrote:

Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: It’s the best possible resolution given that it would be illegal to expel a member from the WA or punish the man with anything gameplay wise due to the game mechanics rule. The WA may not be able to force compliance, but it is poor role playing to ignore GA resolutions without a good response to the challenges the ACA brings.)

(OOC: Thing is, the challenges really aren't all that much. The GAO has no way to enforce payment of fines levied by the IAO. The only real meat to the resolution is getting other WA states to enforce sanctions, and given the sheer size of the WA and the diversity of its member-states there's no real way of making sure the right states (if any) are imposing sanctions. Some nations are even autarkies, so there's no pressure there. If roleplay takes into account that the WA can't force members out, then that's about it for consequences. The fines can stack up, but GAO can't enforce them, nations can't be expelled, and a violator may not have any sanctioners or even be in a position where sanctions matter. *shrugs*)

Ooc: except we presume the majority of WA members comply in good faith. So the presumption is that most of the members are sanctioning properly. While not all nations are coerced, all nations in noncompliance do face significant consequences. Frozen financial assets, no trade with Members, political and diplomatic pressure, exclusion from treaties...basically anything normal about international relations dissolves when you trigger sanctions. Shrugging those off as entirely ineffectual is silly.