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[DEFEATED] Ban on Capital Punishment

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:33 pm

I'll respond to comments later, but this is now at 139 characters--fitting even the old tweet limit :lol2:
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
"The Cross is steady while the world is turning"


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The Aligned People
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Posts: 26
Founded: May 07, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Aligned People » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:58 pm

The Aligned People vehemently rejects this proposal. It is the right of every nation to choose how they conduct their courts. It is a blatant overreach of power for any nation to try and take and wield power in another nations court system.
The Aligned People
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Lord Dominator
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Lord Dominator » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:54 pm

The Aligned People wrote:The Aligned People vehemently rejects this proposal. It is the right of every nation to choose how they conduct their courts. It is a blatant overreach of power for any nation to try and take and wield power in another nations court system.

"I suggest you read up on other passed rresolutions if you feel this to be an overreach of power ambassador, this is hardly the most prying thing this Assembly has enacted.

Full support of course, love the brevity."
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Jishwas Meme Republic
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Jul 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

I object

Postby Jishwas Meme Republic » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:23 pm

Yes I understand people have the right to live but what about those who dedicate their lives to make other's lives hell such as serial kills, rapists, pedophiles, those with extreme mental disorders who pose a threat to society etc. I personally don't think capital punishment should be used extremely often but with cases like these I think it's necessary.

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Bananaaaaa
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 19
Founded: Aug 28, 2017
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Bananaaaaa » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:03 am

Greetings
Even though I agree with your proposal, however, the Death Penalty is imposed in the Principality only for those who had committed grievous crimes, like Child Marriages, Paedophiles, Rape, Serial Murder, and Drug Trafficking. I can not vote for it.

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Liberimery
Envoy
 
Posts: 272
Founded: May 27, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Liberimery » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:21 am

"I ask those in favor of the law, suppose it were to be enacted?" The ambassador from Liberimery asks, calmly cleaning his glasses as he does, "And then the harshest punishment of any nation shall be life without possibility of parole, would it not? As my nation has temporarily suspended the practice under concerns of ethical review we have recently encountered a matter that has not afflicted the other member states so far as I am aware in this debate. Recently one inmate in our prison system, who is serving life without parole, allegedly killed a fellow inmate who was do for release in a few months time. Apparently, it was a gang related matter. Now, thus far the course of justice has not taken place and the matter of the question of this situation is internal to my people and our say in the matter has not concerned this body. But since you wish to tell us what is moral, I pose this question: What justice can there be for the family of the man who's life was stolen from him,if there is no punishment greater than that which he is already sentenced and can only ever serve once. I don't make this plea out of emotion. I will not insult this institution with a plea to humanity or such frivolities as has been requested. I wish to ask the question the opposition dare not ask. How do we punish those we have already said will live their natural lives in our prisons when they continue commit such terrible crimes? As heinous as it is for me to say of the deceased inmate... a criminal... he is still my fellow citizen... my fellow man... and under my government my fellow is entitled to the same justice under the law as a law abiding citizen. How do I uphold that most sacred of pledges?

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:29 am

Liberimery wrote:"I ask those in favor of the law, suppose it were to be enacted?" The ambassador from Liberimery asks, calmly cleaning his glasses as he does, "And then the harshest punishment of any nation shall be life without possibility of parole, would it not? As my nation has temporarily suspended the practice under concerns of ethical review we have recently encountered a matter that has not afflicted the other member states so far as I am aware in this debate. Recently one inmate in our prison system, who is serving life without parole, allegedly killed a fellow inmate who was do for release in a few months time. Apparently, it was a gang related matter. Now, thus far the course of justice has not taken place and the matter of the question of this situation is internal to my people and our say in the matter has not concerned this body. But since you wish to tell us what is moral, I pose this question: What justice can there be for the family of the man who's life was stolen from him,if there is no punishment greater than that which he is already sentenced and can only ever serve once. I don't make this plea out of emotion. I will not insult this institution with a plea to humanity or such frivolities as has been requested. I wish to ask the question the opposition dare not ask. How do we punish those we have already said will live their natural lives in our prisons when they continue commit such terrible crimes? As heinous as it is for me to say of the deceased inmate... a criminal... he is still my fellow citizen... my fellow man... and under my government my fellow is entitled to the same justice under the law as a law abiding citizen. How do I uphold that most sacred of pledges?

"What justice is there in such retribution? What amends does it make? I fail to consider a drawn-out and tiring legal process as providing any sort of closure or justice. Confusing rage with justice is a very dangerous path to walk down; if, indeed, every human is inherently valuable by sheer virtue of their humanity, then nothingcan take away that humanity. Killing those who kill only adds to the cycle of death."
Jishwas Meme Republic wrote:Yes I understand people have the right to live but what about those who dedicate their lives to make other's lives hell such as serial kills, rapists, pedophiles, those with extreme mental disorders who pose a threat to society etc. I personally don't think capital punishment should be used extremely often but with cases like these I think it's necessary.

"If people have the right to live, then why is capital punishment a good idea? Life without parole also prevents such people from continuing to do harm. My question then--why is the death penalty neccesary?"
The Aligned People wrote:The Aligned People vehemently rejects this proposal. It is the right of every nation to choose how they conduct their courts. It is a blatant overreach of power for any nation to try and take and wield power in another nations court system.

"In the name of fundamental human rights, it is not at all an overreach."
Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: Thats a good way to get ignored on this forum. That approach *never* works.

OOC: I'm being like the USSR or Trump Diplomats basically. Trying to be a bit unique. Though that wasn't my full intention, my apologies, it's more to set this up:

Separatist Peoples wrote:

"No, you didn't. You went on a rant about your personal politics. Why should we consider your input if you won't comply to begin with? If you have nothing to compromise on, why should we compromise with your nation?"

"Why should we comply with hypocritical resolutions. We are willing to discuss compromises and even comply, but as it stands, it is unacceptable. We are willing to negotiate for all who have an issue with this and take all of their considerations on the table, and represent them. We will work to a compromise, in fact we declare ourselves committed to finding an agreeable middle ground and forcing all to comply." Her assistants look visibly slightly less worried but still are fidgeting a bit.
"If we can find a ground that all can agree upon, that enforced morality that is not objectionable to both sides, we can preserve national integrity, sovereignty, morality, and keep the organization unified and not divided by partisan politics. We are also open to negotiating proof of our willingness and compliance with this, and that this is not some cheap trick."

"There come times where compromise is undesirable. Compromising fundamental human rights is intolerable. If a right to life exists, as we and any decent human being does, there can be no cooperation on the matter. Rights deserve protecting."
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
"The Cross is steady while the world is turning"


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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:30 am

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:" We won't allow genocide to happen in our country. You are hypocritical thus for allowing genocide."

"You didn't answer the question. If your nation refuses to abide by the laws of the General Assembly on other matters, you will as easily ignore this law. So, why should the members of the Assembly, who are compliant, consider the opposition of a member who does not? If we accommodate your nation, we cede something and you cede nothing. So, what incentive is there to engage with your delegation?"

"On the contrare, we intend to repeal this legislation as soon as possible. We are only asking for if capital punishment to be banned, then ban abortion which is essentially capital punishment or murder depending on how you look at it, for murdering an unconsenting class of organisms because they don't want a child or can't bear the responsibility. Though we should note, rapists are regularly punished according to deed, sometimes torture, sometimes punishment, sometimes execution, according to what will deter them personally. We should note that this is exclusive to rapists, and treasonists. If this is done then we'll be happy and feel it is acceptable to allow both, based on consistency and not hypocrisy, and attempt to enforce it ourselves, through diplomacy or force."

"I support a ban on abortion. It is, however, infeasible. Abortion is murder, but we shan't derail the conversation with such debate."
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
"The Cross is steady while the world is turning"


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Liberimery
Envoy
 
Posts: 272
Founded: May 27, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Liberimery » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:50 am

Ambassador, what would you do to a prisoner in that situation? One who has committed such a crime that I describe? I'd prefer to hear how it works in your nation as you seem to have the situation solved, so that I may inform my government on the proper course that this matter should take.

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 13759
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:58 am

Liberimery wrote:Ambassador, what would you do to a prisoner in that situation? One who has committed such a crime that I describe? I'd prefer to hear how it works in your nation as you seem to have the situation solved, so that I may inform my government on the proper course that this matter should take.

"Most correctional facilities would remove privilages, try the accused, and sentence them. Probably move them to a more secure block. Justice does not require constantly escalating punishments."

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

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Excidium Planetis
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7476
Founded: May 01, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Excidium Planetis » Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:06 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:"Justice does not require constantly escalating punishments."


"I disagree, Ambassador." Blackbourne replies. "If punishments don't escalate, there is no disincentive to commit further crimes. The only reason criminals don't usually attempt to break out of Excidian prisons is that if they do, we will just kill them afterwards."
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
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News: None. Good, right?

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Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 3764
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:21 am

Excidium Planetis wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"Justice does not require constantly escalating punishments."


"I disagree, Ambassador." Blackbourne replies. "If punishments don't escalate, there is no disincentive to commit further crimes. The only reason criminals don't usually attempt to break out of Excidian prisons is that if they do, we will just kill them afterwards."
"There can be disincentives. if the prison system allows there to be. Loss of priveliges, longer times before release, solitary confinement and removal of visiting time can all function as good alternatives to the death penalty."
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Excidium Planetis
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Founded: May 01, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Excidium Planetis » Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:45 am

Kenmoria wrote:"There can be disincentives. if the prison system allows there to be. Loss of priveliges, longer times before release, solitary confinement and removal of visiting time can all function as good alternatives to the death penalty."

"Firstly, for individuals who have already had all those privileges removed, there are no further disincentives. All prison systems have a limit to the level of punishment an inmate can be given, after which point the only disincentive can be death.

"Secondly, the very presence of such amenities in prisons functions as an incentive to commit crimes. The only way prisons can deter the poor, and therefore most likely to turn to crime, from actually committing crimes is if prisons are worse than the impoverished situations would be criminals live in. When prisons are better than the surrounding society, criminals are not afraid to face the consequences."
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
Tier 8, 7.5 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


News: None. Good, right?

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Aclion
Minister
 
Posts: 3046
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Aclion » Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:18 pm

Excidium Planetis wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:"There can be disincentives. if the prison system allows there to be. Loss of priveliges, longer times before release, solitary confinement and removal of visiting time can all function as good alternatives to the death penalty."

"Firstly, for individuals who have already had all those privileges removed, there are no further disincentives. All prison systems have a limit to the level of punishment an inmate can be given, after which point the only disincentive can be death.

"Secondly, the very presence of such amenities in prisons functions as an incentive to commit crimes. The only way prisons can deter the poor, and therefore most likely to turn to crime, from actually committing crimes is if prisons are worse than the impoverished situations would be criminals live in. When prisons are better than the surrounding society, criminals are not afraid to face the consequences."

"It sounds to me that your problem is the way you treat your poor, not the way you treat your criminals"
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Omigodtheykilledkenny
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Posts: 5602
Founded: Mar 14, 2005
Capitalizt

Postby Omigodtheykilledkenny » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:04 pm

I must have missed the beat somewhere. How exactly is this legal, with #375 still in force?
Omigodtheykilledkenny FAQ | "The Biggest Sovereigntist IN THE WORLD" - Chester Pearson

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:05 pm

Omigodtheykilledkenny wrote:I must have missed the beat somewhere. How exactly is this legal, with #375 still in force?

It's a replacement for 375.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
"The Cross is steady while the world is turning"


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Northern Green land
Secretary
 
Posts: 28
Founded: Jul 28, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Green land » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:07 pm

I don't want to sign this.
Last edited by Northern Green land on Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Omigodtheykilledkenny
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Posts: 5602
Founded: Mar 14, 2005
Capitalizt

Postby Omigodtheykilledkenny » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:20 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Omigodtheykilledkenny wrote:I must have missed the beat somewhere. How exactly is this legal, with #375 still in force?

It's a replacement for 375.

Well, thank you for explaining that so clearly in the OP.
Omigodtheykilledkenny FAQ | "The Biggest Sovereigntist IN THE WORLD" - Chester Pearson

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:21 pm

Omigodtheykilledkenny wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:It's a replacement for 375.

Well, thank you for explaining that so clearly in the OP.

I thought [REPLACEMENT] would do. My apologies.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
"The Cross is steady while the world is turning"


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Zone 71
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Apr 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Zone 71 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:17 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Omigodtheykilledkenny wrote:Well, thank you for explaining that so clearly in the OP.

I thought [REPLACEMENT] would do. My apologies.

OOC: Did you manage to repeal the existing legislation that permitted capital punishment?

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:23 pm

Zone 71 wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:I thought [REPLACEMENT] would do. My apologies.

OOC: Did you manage to repeal the existing legislation that permitted capital punishment?

This comes after the draft I posted for that (got dropped down a bit) passes. So, not yet. I'll bump that thread.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
"The Cross is steady while the world is turning"


User avatar
Zone 71
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Apr 20, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Zone 71 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:26 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Zone 71 wrote:OOC: Did you manage to repeal the existing legislation that permitted capital punishment?

This comes after the draft I posted for that (got dropped down a bit) passes. So, not yet. I'll bump that thread.

OOC: And this is a really real draft for what you hope to be really real GA legislation? Because, with all due respect, seems like a joke that will surely make it difficult to take your ideas on this subject seriously, and doesn't help garner support for this ban on capital punishment whatsoever.

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:29 pm

Zone 71 wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:This comes after the draft I posted for that (got dropped down a bit) passes. So, not yet. I'll bump that thread.

OOC: And this is a really real draft for what you hope to be really real GA legislation? Because, with all due respect, seems like a joke that will surely make it difficult to take your ideas on this subject seriously, and doesn't help garner support for this ban on capital punishment whatsoever.

Why do resolutions have to be long? I laid out my reasoning (basically the preamble) in the repeal.
Last edited by United Massachusetts on Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
"The Cross is steady while the world is turning"


User avatar
Imperium Anglorum
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8429
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:01 pm

Length isn't a real requirement. That something is short doesn't matter, unless there are harms from the text not covering something. That it is short, in of itself, is not a bad thing.

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 13759
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:40 am

United Massachusetts wrote:
Zone 71 wrote:OOC: And this is a really real draft for what you hope to be really real GA legislation? Because, with all due respect, seems like a joke that will surely make it difficult to take your ideas on this subject seriously, and doesn't help garner support for this ban on capital punishment whatsoever.

Why do resolutions have to be long? I laid out my reasoning (basically the preamble) in the repeal.


Ooc: short is good, to a point. You make it too short and people will think the length is a product of ineptitude rather than by design. The illusion of legal jargon does the same thing. Comes now the party of the first part, heretofore the petitioner, by and through their attorney...blegh.

To avoid this, I suggest a standard form preamble with more than one line and a single operative clause.

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

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