NATION

PASSWORD

[DEFEATED] Ban on Capital Punishment

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

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Excidium Planetis
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7475
Founded: May 01, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Excidium Planetis » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:06 am

"Capital crimes call for capital punishment, Ambassador." Blackbourne remarks. "Excidium Planetis is opposed."
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
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Tier 8, 7.5 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:59 am

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"None of the crimes yet listed is an appropriate cause for judicially inefficient punishments," Bell yawns.

"Then you are heartless, and are pro-treason, genocide, and murder if you don't intend to punish them. If we can't torture them, if we can't kill them, there's no way we can create a deterrent stopping people from doing crime through fear."

"Oh. My. God." Bell's eyes go wide, and his mouth falls open. "You're right! There clearly is no alternative to either execution or torture for any of those crimes! Without execution and torture, society must clearly fall apart! What have I been doing to my country all this time?"

He resumes his previous, bored expression. "Or, you know, we can use imprisonment. Which has historically worked fine, and is reversible."


Yun Junmai snaps. "My own family was a victim of treason, genocide, and murder. This is a freaking multinational organization, not an empire!"


"Guess how much I care, ambassador, about your family. Go on, guess. I'll give you a hint: I don't succumb to emotional arguments, especially when they're as transparent as plastic wrap and about as sturdy. This is a multinational organization. You win a brownie point. Its a multinational organization that takes broad action to stop practices inimical to individual rights. Which is why genocide, torture, discrimination and mass oppression are illegal, and abortion, civil rights, and freedom of emigration are legal, despite despots and tinpot dictators making emotional cases to the contrary. Especially when they stand on the bodies of their own dead family to do so."
Last edited by Separatist Peoples on Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12281
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:38 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:"Which is why genocide, torture, discrimination and mass oppression are illegal, and abortion, civil rights, and freedom of emigration are legal"

"Yet many resolutions require criminalization and severe punishments for a good number of things that are banned by the World Assembly. Why take away the harshest of punishments? Someone convicted of having tortured and killed countless of children just for their own sexual pleasure - in other words, crimes that have been degreed crimes by the World Assembly, but do not fall under "war crimes or crimes against humanity" - cannot in good conscience ever be let out or rehabilitated to the point where it would be fair to let them out of imprisonment. Why, then, should the society pay the upkeep of such a person for several decades? Why should the inmate be tortured - yes, you heard me, tortured, which is something the World Assembly has banned, because depriving a person of a social species from all social contact is nothing short of torture - for several decades? Or are you maybe suggesting that they should be encouraged to take their own lives, since euthanasia has not yet been banned and suicide has been expressly made legal? Do you honestly mean to encourage nations to move from humane, painless and quick death to suicide-by-coercion? What does that really change but the words in the law book? And if you seek to ban that, who can claim, after the person is dead, that they did not choose to die of their own volition?"

OOC: The above is on the lines of the official Araraukarian IC view of death penalty, not necessarily mine OOCly.

OOC EDIT: If I've misunderstood and the very short text doesn't stop a nation from declaring things "war crimes" or "crimes against humanity" (since Araraukar would happily add sexual assault of children to that latter one) the things that currently would earn a death penalty, then ignore all of the above.
Last edited by Araraukar on Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:53 am

Araraukar wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"Which is why genocide, torture, discrimination and mass oppression are illegal, and abortion, civil rights, and freedom of emigration are legal"

[i]"Yet many resolutions require criminalization and severe punishments for a good number of things that are banned by the World Assembly. Why take away the harshest of punishments?

"Because the punishment is inherently irreversible, and mortal criminal justice is not infallible. And because execution meets none of the components of an effective criminal justice punishment. It is purely retributive, which is a piss-poor theory upon which to run a justice system."
Someone convicted of having tortured and killed countless of children just for their own sexual pleasure - in other words, crimes that have been degreed crimes by the World Assembly, but do not fall under "war crimes or crimes against humanity" - cannot in good conscience ever be let out or rehabilitated to the point where it would be fair to let them out of imprisonment.

"Pathos doesn't work on me, ambassador. You'd do well to find a different approach."

Why, then, should the society pay the upkeep of such a person for several decades?

"Separation from the public is a goal of criminal justice. Society spends money on all of those within it's care, even those who are unsavory. That's the point of society. Otherwise, we wouldn't spend money on silly things like medical care for prisoners or rehabilitation for drug users."

Why should the inmate be tortured - yes, you heard me, tortured, which is something the World Assembly has banned, because depriving a person of a social species from all social contact is nothing short of torture - for several decades?

"Imprisonment is not the same thing as isolation. This argument is intellectually dishonest."

Or are you maybe suggesting that they should be encouraged to take their own lives, since euthanasia has not yet been banned and suicide has been expressly made legal?

"Please point out where I suggested that, ambassador. If you're going to shove your things into my mouth, you gotta buy me dinner, first. Maybe just a couple drinks I dunno, its not like anybody else is offering these days."

Do you honestly mean to encourage nations to move from humane, painless and quick death to suicide-by-coercion?

"Strawman arguments are bad, ambassador."

What does that really change but the words in the law book?

"More straw."

And if you seek to ban that, who can claim, after the person is dead, that they did not choose to die of their own volition?"

"Found the hay field."
Last edited by Separatist Peoples on Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

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Bananaistan
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 2079
Founded: Apr 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bananaistan » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:20 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:"Found the hay field."


"You wouldn't actually find any straw in a hay field. You'd want the corn field for that. Unless you were actually looking for the literal straw man, in which case I'd direct you to the vegetable fields.

"We'd question the need for the ridiculously long preamble here. And the operative clause could be significantly shortened too."
Last edited by Bananaistan on Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Delegation of the People's Republic of Bananaistan to the World Assembly
Head of delegation and the Permanent Representative: Comrade Ambassador Theodorus "Ted" Hornwood
General Assistant and Head of Security: Comrade Watchman Brian of Tarth
There was the Pope and John F. Kennedy and Jack Charlton and the three of them were staring me in the face.

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:45 am

Bananaistan wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"Found the hay field."


"You wouldn't actually find any straw in a hay field. You'd want the corn field for that. Unless you were actually looking for the literal straw man, in which case I'd direct you to the vegetable fields.

"We'd question the need for the ridiculously long preamble here. And the operative clause could be significantly shortened too."


"Do I look like a farmer to you? Jeez, everybody is a critic..."

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

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Grays Harbor
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17854
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Grays Harbor » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:05 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Bananaistan wrote:
"You wouldn't actually find any straw in a hay field. You'd want the corn field for that. Unless you were actually looking for the literal straw man, in which case I'd direct you to the vegetable fields.

"We'd question the need for the ridiculously long preamble here. And the operative clause could be significantly shortened too."


"Do I look like a farmer to you? Jeez, everybody is a critic..."


Well, ... your office *is* the former 17th Floor men’s room ... just sayin’, my friend. ;)
I am a grumpy old man. Your first mistake was believing I care about your opinion. Get off my lawn.

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Desmosthenes and Burke
Envoy
 
Posts: 209
Founded: Oct 07, 2017
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Desmosthenes and Burke » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:54 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Bananaistan wrote:
"You wouldn't actually find any straw in a hay field. You'd want the corn field for that. Unless you were actually looking for the literal straw man, in which case I'd direct you to the vegetable fields.

"We'd question the need for the ridiculously long preamble here. And the operative clause could be significantly shortened too."


"Do I look like a farmer to you? Jeez, everybody is a critic..."


"No, you look like an agent of a left-wing hit-squad. We highly encourage you to try farming for a year or two. We hear it tends to increase civic virtue and adherence to republican values, but being the so-called liberal elite ourselves, we hypocritically have no experience therewith."

Iulia paused for a moment. "As for the resolution at hand, we are opposed in the strongest terms possible. While we agree that capital punishment ought not be lightly imposed, it is a necessary component of a just system of punishment and have nothing more to add beyond what others have already said on that topic."

User avatar
Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12281
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:53 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:"Because the punishment is inherently irreversible, and mortal criminal justice is not infallible. And because execution meets none of the components of an effective criminal justice punishment. It is purely retributive, which is a piss-poor theory upon which to run a justice system."

"It is not retributive when it is done to save resources and energy. I don't know about you, ambassador, but Araraukar shares its planet with dozens of other nations, and none of these nations, nor ours, can leave the planet to search for resources elsewhere. Resources thus being limited, individuals who have been shut out of the society already, should not have to be kept alive when all they do is use up resources and cause unnecessary expenditure of time, energy and money. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one, ambassador."

OOC: Sorry for the Spock quote, but I couldn't resist... :lol2:

"Pathos doesn't work on me, ambassador. You'd do well to find a different approach."

"Surely you understand the importance of definitions and examples, ambassador?"

"Separation from the public is a goal of criminal justice."

"Perhaps for separatists. For us the goal is to make sure the criminal cannot and will not break the law again. In the most severe cases this includes ending their life that they themselves have deemed worthless by choosing to throw away their rights of freedom."

OOC: Again, sorry, but this was too punny to not use...

"Society spends money on all of those within it's care, even those who are unsavory."

"Unsavory, I grant you, yes. Unredeemable, no."

"Imprisonment is not the same thing as isolation. This argument is intellectually dishonest."

"We were talking about the kind of inmates that cannot be let to interact with other inmates - or perhaps you consider mob justice a form of criminal justice? This, ambassador, is why I laid out the example earlier."

"If you're going to shove your things into my mouth, you gotta buy me dinner, first. Maybe just a couple drinks I dunno, its not like anybody else is offering these days."

Johan glanced at his wrist watch. "Dinner I can manage - would tonight at eight work for you? But drinks you'll have to get yourself, if you want alcoholic content; with Janis away, the anti-spendthrift committee is watching our expenses like a flock of dragons watching a dying mountain goat's last few breaths."

What does that really change but the words in the law book?

"More straw."

"So you are fine with that filling then? I guess that really solves the issue for the nations still wanting to be able to punish the most egregious offenses with death."

"Found the hay field."

"Watch out for the goats. I've been told they can be quite unwilling to give way."
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

User avatar
Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:21 pm

Desmosthenes and Burke wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:
"Do I look like a farmer to you? Jeez, everybody is a critic..."


"No, you look like an agent of a left-wing hit-squad.

"This is ironic on so very many levels."

We highly encourage you to try farming for a year or two. We hear it tends to increase civic virtue and adherence to republican values, but being the so-called liberal elite ourselves, we hypocritically have no experience therewith."

Bell coughs. "The C.D.S.P. is a centrist libertarian confederation of semi-autonomous territories, and I grew up on a goat farm. But we didn't buy straw. We bought hay and wood shavings for the barn. The perks of living near a sawmill."

Araraukar wrote:"It is not retributive when it is done to save resources and energy.

"Ah, so you euthanize your braindead and mentally ill, too. To save resources and energy."
I don't know about you, ambassador, but Araraukar shares its planet with dozens of other nations, and none of these nations, nor ours, can leave the planet to search for resources elsewhere. Resources thus being limited, individuals who have been shut out of the society already, should not have to be kept alive when all they do is use up resources and cause unnecessary expenditure of time, energy and money. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one, ambassador."

"Ambassador, if your argument is based on insufficent global resources, you have [i]so many worse problems, and capital punishment is likely a negligible solution. This is just...bad debate."

"Surely you understand the importance of definitions and examples, ambassador?"

"The severity of the crime is irrelevant. I wouldn't execute a jaywalker or a child molester for the same rationale."

"Separation from the public is a goal of criminal justice."

"Perhaps for separatists. For us the goal is to make sure the criminal cannot and will not break the law again. In the most severe cases this includes ending their life that they themselves have deemed worthless by choosing to throw away their rights of freedom."[/quote]

Bell clears his throat, "Preventing criminals from breaking the law, and thus harming society, falls under the classic example of separation from the public. You just made my point for me, ambassador. And I'd be willing to bet none of your criminals woke up the day before their crime and said 'Ya know, I think my life is worthless, so I'll throw away my freedom today.' This is an asinine and ignorant understanding of crime and it's motivations."

"Unsavory, I grant you, yes. Unredeemable, no."

"Incarceration is not solely about redemption. If you understood the classical considerations in criminal justice punishments, you know that the goals of criminal punishment has five recognized purposes: deterrence, incapacitation, rehabilitation, retribution, and restitution. Execution serves only retribution and ignores the others. The classic reply, of course, is that it also serves incapacitation (inability to harm society by being isolated from it), in which I note, as I have before, that incarceration does the same.
"We were talking about the kind of inmates that cannot be let to interact with other inmates - or perhaps you consider mob justice a form of criminal justice? This, ambassador, is why I laid out the example earlier.

"Ah, ok, so you don't have any semblance of order in your prisons? If you want, I can see about sending over some literature on prison management."

Johan glanced at his wrist watch. "Dinner I can manage - would tonight at eight work for you? But drinks you'll have to get yourself, if you want alcoholic content; with Janis away, the anti-spendthrift committee is watching our expenses like a flock of dragons watching a dying mountain goat's last few breaths."

Bell just stares.
"So you are fine with that filling then? I guess that really solves the issue for the nations still wanting to be able to punish the most egregious offenses with death."

"Your underlying premise was flawed, so the propositions that follow are, ipso facto, wrong."

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

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Eternal Lotharia
Senator
 
Posts: 3579
Founded: Dec 27, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Eternal Lotharia » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:41 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:"Then you are heartless, and are pro-treason, genocide, and murder if you don't intend to punish them. If we can't torture them, if we can't kill them, there's no way we can create a deterrent stopping people from doing crime through fear."

"Oh. My. God." Bell's eyes go wide, and his mouth falls open. "You're right! There clearly is no alternative to either execution or torture for any of those crimes! Without execution and torture, society must clearly fall apart! What have I been doing to my country all this time?"

He resumes his previous, bored expression. "Or, you know, we can use imprisonment. Which has historically worked fine, and is reversible."


Yun Junmai snaps. "My own family was a victim of treason, genocide, and murder. This is a freaking multinational organization, not an empire!"


"Guess how much I care, ambassador, about your family. Go on, guess. I'll give you a hint: I don't succumb to emotional arguments, especially when they're as transparent as plastic wrap and about as sturdy. This is a multinational organization. You win a brownie point. Its a multinational organization that takes broad action to stop practices inimical to individual rights. Which is why genocide, torture, discrimination and mass oppression are illegal, and abortion, civil rights, and freedom of emigration are legal, despite despots and tinpot dictators making emotional cases to the contrary. Especially when they stand on the bodies of their own dead family to do so."

"And we still ban abortion because it is an act of genocide to people who have caused no harm. As well, you are running this like an empire, not a multinational organization. We are not a dictatorship we should note, these were voted on before, we have a good deal of Democracy. Banning capital punishment is wrong. We have tolerated many things, but we cannot let this stand. Imprisonment is not strong enough of a punishment, people must be punished harsher according to the level of crime. We will not ban capital punishment and nor unban abortion because abortion is child genocide. However it seems we can't get it through that sick, thick, head of yours, so we'll take our seat now."


OOC: Don't worry this is purely ic stuff, I'm pro-life oocly and mixed on death penalty oocly.
Joe Biden/Beto O'Rourke 2020
or
Bernie Sanders/Steve Bullock 2020
or
Sherrod Brown/Amy Klobuchar 2020

Petrasylvania wrote:
Dahon wrote:
... is this kinky?

Not until a rolled up magazine is used.

This nation's Policies partially represent my views, partially are experimental, same thing with how my nation is in RP.

User avatar
Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:43 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:"And we still ban abortion because it is an act of genocide to people who have caused no harm.

"Lemme stop you right there. If you don't comply with other resolutions, why should any of us bother to consider your input here? Your nation has proved that it is willing to ignore WA law when it is inconvenient, and there is no reason to suspect you won't do so here. So, why should anybody consider your nation's input?"

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

User avatar
Eternal Lotharia
Senator
 
Posts: 3579
Founded: Dec 27, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Eternal Lotharia » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:45 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:"And we still ban abortion because it is an act of genocide to people who have caused no harm.

"Lemme stop you right there. If you don't comply with other resolutions, why should any of us bother to consider your input here? Your nation has proved that it is willing to ignore WA law when it is inconvenient, and there is no reason to suspect you won't do so here. So, why should anybody consider your nation's input?"

" We won't allow genocide to happen in our country. You are hypocritical thus for allowing genocide."

OOC: Also, oocly not as radical or aggressive about this. Just trying to rp an aggressive diplomat, hope I don't cause any ooc offense.
Joe Biden/Beto O'Rourke 2020
or
Bernie Sanders/Steve Bullock 2020
or
Sherrod Brown/Amy Klobuchar 2020

Petrasylvania wrote:
Dahon wrote:
... is this kinky?

Not until a rolled up magazine is used.

This nation's Policies partially represent my views, partially are experimental, same thing with how my nation is in RP.

User avatar
Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:53 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:
"Lemme stop you right there. If you don't comply with other resolutions, why should any of us bother to consider your input here? Your nation has proved that it is willing to ignore WA law when it is inconvenient, and there is no reason to suspect you won't do so here. So, why should anybody consider your nation's input?"

" We won't allow genocide to happen in our country. You are hypocritical thus for allowing genocide."

"You didn't answer the question. If your nation refuses to abide by the laws of the General Assembly on other matters, you will as easily ignore this law. So, why should the members of the Assembly, who are compliant, consider the opposition of a member who does not? If we accommodate your nation, we cede something and you cede nothing. So, what incentive is there to engage with your delegation?"

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

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Eternal Lotharia
Senator
 
Posts: 3579
Founded: Dec 27, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Eternal Lotharia » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:58 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:

" We won't allow genocide to happen in our country. You are hypocritical thus for allowing genocide."

"You didn't answer the question. If your nation refuses to abide by the laws of the General Assembly on other matters, you will as easily ignore this law. So, why should the members of the Assembly, who are compliant, consider the opposition of a member who does not? If we accommodate your nation, we cede something and you cede nothing. So, what incentive is there to engage with your delegation?"

"On the contrare, we intend to repeal this legislation as soon as possible. We are only asking for if capital punishment to be banned, then ban abortion which is essentially capital punishment or murder depending on how you look at it, for murdering an unconsenting class of organisms because they don't want a child or can't bear the responsibility. Though we should note, rapists are regularly punished according to deed, sometimes torture, sometimes punishment, sometimes execution, according to what will deter them personally. We should note that this is exclusive to rapists, and treasonists. If this is done then we'll be happy and feel it is acceptable to allow both, based on consistency and not hypocrisy, and attempt to enforce it ourselves, through diplomacy or force."
Joe Biden/Beto O'Rourke 2020
or
Bernie Sanders/Steve Bullock 2020
or
Sherrod Brown/Amy Klobuchar 2020

Petrasylvania wrote:
Dahon wrote:
... is this kinky?

Not until a rolled up magazine is used.

This nation's Policies partially represent my views, partially are experimental, same thing with how my nation is in RP.

User avatar
Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:14 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:" We won't allow genocide to happen in our country. You are hypocritical thus for allowing genocide."

"You didn't answer the question. If your nation refuses to abide by the laws of the General Assembly on other matters, you will as easily ignore this law. So, why should the members of the Assembly, who are compliant, consider the opposition of a member who does not? If we accommodate your nation, we cede something and you cede nothing. So, what incentive is there to engage with your delegation?"

"On the contrare, we intend to repeal this legislation as soon as possible. We are only asking for if capital punishment to be banned, then ban abortion which is essentially capital punishment or murder depending on how you look at it, for murdering an unconsenting class of organisms because they don't want a child or can't bear the responsibility. Though we should note, rapists are regularly punished according to deed, sometimes torture, sometimes punishment, sometimes execution, according to what will deter them personally. We should note that this is exclusive to rapists, and treasonists. If this is done then we'll be happy and feel it is acceptable to allow both, based on consistency and not hypocrisy, and attempt to enforce it ourselves, through diplomacy or force."


"You still didn't answer my question, ambassador. Do you need me to use smaller words?"

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

User avatar
Eternal Lotharia
Senator
 
Posts: 3579
Founded: Dec 27, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Eternal Lotharia » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:16 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:"On the contrare, we intend to repeal this legislation as soon as possible. We are only asking for if capital punishment to be banned, then ban abortion which is essentially capital punishment or murder depending on how you look at it, for murdering an unconsenting class of organisms because they don't want a child or can't bear the responsibility. Though we should note, rapists are regularly punished according to deed, sometimes torture, sometimes punishment, sometimes execution, according to what will deter them personally. We should note that this is exclusive to rapists, and treasonists. If this is done then we'll be happy and feel it is acceptable to allow both, based on consistency and not hypocrisy, and attempt to enforce it ourselves, through diplomacy or force."


"You still didn't answer my question, ambassador. Do you need me to use smaller words?"

"My answer was such. Would you like me to reply in baby words?" The Ambassador replied condescendingly, her associates getting nervous about her aggressiveness visibly, fidgeting slightly.
Joe Biden/Beto O'Rourke 2020
or
Bernie Sanders/Steve Bullock 2020
or
Sherrod Brown/Amy Klobuchar 2020

Petrasylvania wrote:
Dahon wrote:
... is this kinky?

Not until a rolled up magazine is used.

This nation's Policies partially represent my views, partially are experimental, same thing with how my nation is in RP.

User avatar
Sierra Lyricalia
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 3090
Founded: Nov 29, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:25 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:<snip>


OOC: Dude, what he's getting at IC is that the WA bans several things your ambassador is claiming your country does to its various criminals, and therefore is completely ignoring multiple resolutions. Why would anyone negotiate with such a country? You'd be barred from even speaking at any real organization if the people you represent are that cavalier about following its rules, so in character why would anyone care what you have to say?

(We really could use a guide to effective GA roleplay, I know it...)
Last edited by Sierra Lyricalia on Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Principal-Agent, Anarchy; Petty Officer, The Red Fleet
The Mostly Alright Steph Zakalwe *
Author: 354 GA / Issues 436, 451, 724
S.L. Ambassador to the World Assembly
Tech Level: Complicated (or not: 7/0/6 i.e. 12) / RP Details
The Semi-Honorable Leonid Berkman Pavonis,
Illustrious Bum #279
Ambassador-At-Large
Pol. Compass: Econ. -5 to -8, Soc. -8 to -9 (depending), 8values: LibSoc
"When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People’s Stick.'" -Mikhail Bakunin (to Karl Marx)


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Eternal Lotharia
Senator
 
Posts: 3579
Founded: Dec 27, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Eternal Lotharia » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:27 pm

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:<snip>


OOC: Dude, what he's getting at IC is that the WA bans several things your ambassador is claiming your country does to its various criminals, and therefore is completely ignoring multiple resolutions. Why would anyone negotiate with such a country? You'd be barred from even speaking at any real organization if the people you represent are that cavalier about following its rules, so in character why would anyone care what you have to say?

(We really could use a guide to effective GA roleplay, I know it...)

OOC: No I know, I am fully aware. Don't worry, ICly I'm just being a prick trying to force the WA to agree to my stuff. But yeah, a rp guide would be great. I'm not taking it really seriously.
Joe Biden/Beto O'Rourke 2020
or
Bernie Sanders/Steve Bullock 2020
or
Sherrod Brown/Amy Klobuchar 2020

Petrasylvania wrote:
Dahon wrote:
... is this kinky?

Not until a rolled up magazine is used.

This nation's Policies partially represent my views, partially are experimental, same thing with how my nation is in RP.

User avatar
Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:33 pm

Eternal Lotharia wrote:
Sierra Lyricalia wrote:
OOC: Dude, what he's getting at IC is that the WA bans several things your ambassador is claiming your country does to its various criminals, and therefore is completely ignoring multiple resolutions. Why would anyone negotiate with such a country? You'd be barred from even speaking at any real organization if the people you represent are that cavalier about following its rules, so in character why would anyone care what you have to say?

(We really could use a guide to effective GA roleplay, I know it...)

OOC: No I know, I am fully aware. Don't worry, ICly I'm just being a prick trying to force the WA to agree to my stuff. But yeah, a rp guide would be great. I'm not taking it really seriously.

OOC: Thats a good way to get ignored on this forum. That approach *never* works.

Eternal Lotharia wrote:"My answer was such. Would you like me to reply in baby words?" The Ambassador replied condescendingly, her associates getting nervous about her aggressiveness visibly, fidgeting slightly.


"No, you didn't. You went on a rant about your personal politics. Why should we consider your input if you won't comply to begin with? If you have nothing to compromise on, why should we compromise with your nation?"
Last edited by Separatist Peoples on Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

User avatar
Ranbowia
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Jul 18, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Ranbowia » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:40 pm

Full support.

User avatar
Eternal Lotharia
Senator
 
Posts: 3579
Founded: Dec 27, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Eternal Lotharia » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:42 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:OOC: No I know, I am fully aware. Don't worry, ICly I'm just being a prick trying to force the WA to agree to my stuff. But yeah, a rp guide would be great. I'm not taking it really seriously.

OOC: Thats a good way to get ignored on this forum. That approach *never* works.

OOC: I'm being like the USSR or Trump Diplomats basically. Trying to be a bit unique. Though that wasn't my full intention, my apologies, it's more to set this up:

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:"My answer was such. Would you like me to reply in baby words?" The Ambassador replied condescendingly, her associates getting nervous about her aggressiveness visibly, fidgeting slightly.


"No, you didn't. You went on a rant about your personal politics. Why should we consider your input if you won't comply to begin with? If you have nothing to compromise on, why should we compromise with your nation?"

"Why should we comply with hypocritical resolutions. We are willing to discuss compromises and even comply, but as it stands, it is unacceptable. We are willing to negotiate for all who have an issue with this and take all of their considerations on the table, and represent them. We will work to a compromise, in fact we declare ourselves committed to finding an agreeable middle ground and forcing all to comply." Her assistants look visibly slightly less worried but still are fidgeting a bit.
"If we can find a ground that all can agree upon, that enforced morality that is not objectionable to both sides, we can preserve national integrity, sovereignty, morality, and keep the organization unified and not divided by partisan politics. We are also open to negotiating proof of our willingness and compliance with this, and that this is not some cheap trick."
Joe Biden/Beto O'Rourke 2020
or
Bernie Sanders/Steve Bullock 2020
or
Sherrod Brown/Amy Klobuchar 2020

Petrasylvania wrote:
Dahon wrote:
... is this kinky?

Not until a rolled up magazine is used.

This nation's Policies partially represent my views, partially are experimental, same thing with how my nation is in RP.

User avatar
The United Orthodox States
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 16
Founded: Jul 05, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The United Orthodox States » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:21 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
(Image)
Ban on Capital Punishment
Category: Human Rights | Strength: Significant | Proposed by: United Massachusetts

Having already presented its rationale in GA 4XX, The General Assembly bans member nations from employing a penalty of death for any crime, excluding war crimes or crimes against humanity.

Standing at 188 characters, I have fit an entire resolution into a tweet. I will be accepting further suggestions, especially those that decrease this abhorrently high character count.


"This resolutuon is absurd!' Shouts Ambassador Justin, while simultaniously slamming his hands on the table, making one of his aids jump with suprise.

"Not only is it a violation of nations' sovernty, it removes one of the most effective deturrents to crime, death! Fully against this law."

OOC: You probably should define crimes against humanity.
Last edited by The United Orthodox States on Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Imperium Anglorum
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8427
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:19 pm

UM, just say any crime.

Author: 1 SC and 26 GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communiqué and InfoEurope
Delegate for Europe
Out-of-character unless marked otherwise
Ideological Bulwark 285, WALL delegate

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:27 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:UM, just say any crime.

OK.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
"The Cross is steady while the world is turning"


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