NationStates

Posted: **Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:28 pm**

Ramelia wrote:"We are appalled by the unserious nature of what seems to be more than half of the proposal, which has significantly more place in a middle school's student government than the World Assembly, especially with relation to such an important issue as ridding the world of the abomination that is capital punishment.

"Were the bill to remove its utterly ridiculous portions related to length (which would make it much shorter), we would be in complete support. The one suggestion I have, out of fear that the proposal would fail otherwise, is that an exemption be created for crimes against humanity. While Ramelia unyieldingly opposes capital punishment in any cases whatsoever, I feel many national governments will not support the bill unless such a provision exists. If crimes against humanity need be defined and (unless my memory fails me and they are defined by an existing Resolution) they really ought be, so be it, the bill has already been lengthened to somewhat reasonable."

Lighten up. It does what it's supposed to do. People wanted me to make this longer. This is my way of responding to them.

Posted: **Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:36 pm**

Ramelia wrote:"We are appalled by the unserious nature of what seems to be more than half of the proposal, which has significantly more place in a middle school's student government than the World Assembly, especially with relation to such an important issue as ridding the world of the abomination that is capital punishment.

"Were the bill to remove its utterly ridiculous portions related to length (which would make it much shorter), we would be in complete support. The one suggestion I have, out of fear that the proposal would fail otherwise, is that an exemption be created for crimes against humanity. While Ramelia unyieldingly opposes capital punishment in any cases whatsoever, I feel many national governments will not support the bill unless such a provision exists. If crimes against humanity need be defined and (unless my memory fails me and they are defined by an existing Resolution) they really ought be, so be it, the bill has already been lengthened to somewhat reasonable."

This is what the bill looked like pre-revision (185 character version)

Ban on Capital Punishment
Category: Human Rights | Strength: Significant | Proposed by: United Massachusetts
Having already presented its rationale in GA 4XX, The General Assembly bans member nations from employing a penalty of death for any crime, excluding war crimes or crimes against humanity.

That is a longer version, the only reason I didn't post the penultimate revision (135 characters) was that I can't find a copy of it. UM, you might want to post previous versions in spoilers.

Posted: **Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:25 pm**

The Xanthalian legal system does not subscribe to the theory of punitive justice. The death "penalty" is employed as a practical measure, not a retributive one. For those who cannot be reformed, and for whom an accommodating nation cannot be found which the convicted considers agreeable, merely caging the individual for the remainder of his natural life is a costly and inhumane alternative to execution.

Posted: **Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:27 pm**

The Delegate for the The Republic Of Squirrels will give their support for the Bill, but does request revising of the amendment for allowing the death penalty to be sentenced for individuals committing crimes against humanity, e.g. Genocide.

It is expensive to hold criminals for life, if we know they are too dangerous to be released, and can not be reformed.

Posted: **Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:47 pm**

"Prohibits member nations from extraditing individuals to a foreign nation where they are likely to face a penalty of death,"

I would have liked to see this reworded to say "face execution or capital punishment inline with prohibited punishment above"

Posted: **Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:52 pm**

Kranostav wrote:"Prohibits member nations from extraditing individuals to a foreign nation where they are likely to face a penalty of death,"

I would have liked to see this reworded to say "face execution or capital punishment inline with prohibited punishment above"

Will do.

Posted: **Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:52 am**

OOC: Lose the jokes. It won't go down well at vote.

Also if you were still interested in brevity, section 3 is unnecessary. GAR#147 would prevent this anyway. No harm to restate it IMO but it's not absolutely necessary.

Posted: **Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:29 pm**

I am in full support of the abolishment of capital punishment. -President Gold, Presidential debate, September 10, 2009.

Posted: **Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:13 pm**

No support. The WA should not decide on this. This is, quite frankly, one nation trying to force their morals on others, which is wrong.

Posted: **Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:22 pm**

"This resolution must replicate the other provisions on crime and punishment in the resolution that this intends to replace. GA#375 does not exclusively exist to permit the desth penalty, and its other provisions MUST be included in this replacement."

Posted: **Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:25 am**

Support. Yelah Rekkab can fully control the prisons & rehabilitation centers. If a nation can not feel that their prisons are good at keeping criminals in, I would not want to live there. Yelah also fully believes in peace & wants to help people reform always. This is a fundamental belief of Snowman.

~Snowman Secretary

Posted: **Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:24 am**

"I would suggest that you exclude war crimes and cards - ahem, crimes against humanity from the ban, to make it acceptable for more nations."

Posted: **Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:21 pm**

East Gondwana wrote:"This resolution must replicate the other provisions on crime and punishment in the resolution that this intends to replace. GA#375 does not exclusively exist to permit the desth penalty, and its other provisions MUST be included in this replacement."

I'm not sure to what specifically the delegate from East Gondwana is referring, but the provisions on extradition and torture are already replicated and expounded upon by other extant resolutions, as noted by the delegate from Lammas in the debate regarding the repeal now at vote.

New Min wrote:"I would suggest that you exclude war crimes and cards - ahem, crimes against humanity from the ban, to make it acceptable for more nations."

The Federation objects to such an inclusion- as previously stated, we seek clear and unequivocal guidance from the General Assembly on the legitimacy of the death penalty. Our judicial system does not regard the nature of the offense as the most important determinant of the appropriate remedy, and WA restrictions on that basis are injurious to the dispensation of equal justice under our system. To reiterate, Xanthal prefers that the current limits on the death penalty exercised by this body be repealed without the replacement United Massachusetts has submitted, but the replacement is still preferred to the current law.

Posted: **Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:02 pm**

United Massachusetts wrote:
(Image)
Ban on Capital Punishment
Category: Human Rights | Strength: Significant | Proposed by: United Massachusetts
Having already presented its rationale in GA 4XX,

Restating, however, that the death penalty institutionalizes a model of justice based solely on revenge, a model inherently flawed in its assertion that violence and killing are best dealt with by more bloodshed,

Concerned, further, that in their reckless pursuit of such an system, member nations have institutionalized the murder of innocent blood, unless they do consider themselves omnipotent,

Further angered that the complex legal mechanisms associated with capital punishment only serve to prolong the closure of crime victims by dragging them into a long legal process,

Somberly noting that every second spent on this preamble is another second of dehumanizing punishment, murder of the innocents, inefficiency, and barbarism on the global scale,

Bewailing, therefore, the insufferable length of this resolution, which could have been written in as few as 139 characters,

Realizing that the very sentence above is an example of such a needless clause,

Told, however, that the masses would prefer a preamble to this resolution, even where one already exists in GA 4XX,

Putting a very long clause here in an attempt to make a profound and grandiose gesture comparing our inability to act on something so simple to this resolution, whose preamble, in an ironic sense, has captured perfectly the World Assembly's inability to act,

Declaring that this nonsense ends now, with the resolution before this Assembly,

Again invoking dramatic symbolism to draw out a needless preamble to what is already known to be true,

The General Assembly, at long last, invoking its august power in this session assembled, and by the advice and consent of its delegates and member nations, hereby:

Bans member nations from employing a penalty of death for any crime within their jurisdiction,

Mandates that member nations reprieve and cancel the execution of those already sentenced to death within their jurisdiction, and instead determine through their legal processes an alternate punishment,

Prohibits member nations from extraditing individuals to a foreign nation where they are likely to face execution or capital punishment inline with prohibited punishment above,

Urges member nations to issue official reports condemning the length of this resolution.

The delegate from Gunmetal walks in, pointing his cane while searching for his seat. While searching, he interjects with the following statement, "Capital Punishment is horrible, and I agree with you on that, but I don't support this. Some criminals do unthinkable and disgusting acts that require far more than imprisonment. I suggest that you attempt to limit capital punishment, don't ban it. Every so often a terrorist better get themselves a good ounce of lead in the head, while low-life mugged twenty people should just be stuck in prison for life."

Posted: **Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:17 pm**

Gunmetal wrote:"Capital Punishment is horrible, and I agree with you on that, but I don't support this. Some criminals do unthinkable and disgusting acts that require far more than imprisonment. I suggest that you attempt to limit capital punishment, don't ban it. Every so often a terrorist better get themselves a good ounce of lead in the head, while low-life mugged twenty people should just be stuck in prison for life."

I hate to be the one to point out the obvious, but that's what GAR375 does, and that's going down faster than a... well, I'm sure you're familiar with the vernacular.

Posted: **Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:20 pm**

Xanthal wrote:
Gunmetal wrote:"Capital Punishment is horrible, and I agree with you on that, but I don't support this. Some criminals do unthinkable and disgusting acts that require far more than imprisonment. I suggest that you attempt to limit capital punishment, don't ban it. Every so often a terrorist better get themselves a good ounce of lead in the head, while low-life mugged twenty people should just be stuck in prison for life."

I hate to be the one to point out the obvious, but that's what GAR375 does, and that's going down faster than a... well, I'm sure you're familiar with the vernacular.

The delegate runs his nails through his hair. "Sorry, first time here, and arrived on short notice. If GAR375 does that, then keep GAR375 and don't ban capital punishment. Limitation is enough."

Posted: **Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:59 pm**

New Min wrote:"I would suggest that you exclude war crimes and cards - ahem, crimes against humanity from the ban, to make it acceptable for more nations."

"We second this, although we would prefer that such an exception be expanded to treason, murder, rape, and similarly vicious crimes. Unfortunately, the delegation from United Massachusetts has made it clear that nothing but a total ban on justice for the most vile criminals will suffice."

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:17 am**

Gunmetal wrote:
Xanthal wrote:I hate to be the one to point out the obvious, but that's what GAR375 does, and that's going down faster than a... well, I'm sure you're familiar with the vernacular.

The delegate runs his nails through his hair. "Sorry, first time here, and arrived on short notice. If GAR375 does that, then keep GAR375 and don't ban capital punishment. Limitation is enough."

“Unfortunately for you, GA #375 is in the process of being removed, with the majority of votes going for a repeal that has also been drafted by the United Massachusetts delegation. Said repeal was written firmly with the intent of banning capital punishment in all cases, and that is the intention with this proposal. Although an exception for perpetrators of serious war crimes such as genocide would be ideal, it runs the risk that member nations may just classify generic, low-level infractions of the law as such to avoid the provisions of this.”

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:26 am**

New Min wrote:"I would suggest that you exclude war crimes and cards - ahem, crimes against humanity from the ban, to make it acceptable for more nations."

Emphatically not, Ambassador. Either we are banning capital punishment here or we are not.

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:29 am**

Uan aa Boa wrote:
New Min wrote:"I would suggest that you exclude war crimes and cards - ahem, crimes against humanity from the ban, to make it acceptable for more nations."

Emphatically not, Ambassador. Either we are banning capital punishment here or we are not.

"Ahem - have you ever heard of compromising, Mr Ambassador?"

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:40 am**

New Min wrote:
Uan aa Boa wrote:Emphatically not, Ambassador. Either we are banning capital punishment here or we are not.

"Ahem - have you ever heard of compromising, Mr Ambassador?"

“Have you ever heard of the middle ground fallacy? If one wants to destroy a vengeful punishment with little purpose, why do it halfway?”

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:48 am**

New Min wrote:"Ahem - have you ever heard of compromising, Mr Ambassador?"

That's Ms Ambassador to you, and while there is a time for compromise there is also a time for bold action.

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:33 am**

Kenmoria wrote:
New Min wrote:"Ahem - have you ever heard of compromising, Mr Ambassador?"

“Have you ever heard of the middle ground fallacy? If one wants to destroy a vengeful punishment with little purpose, why do it halfway?”

"Whether or not it is vengeful with little purpose is an opinion, which your nation is free to exercise within its own borders, but some nations believe differently and that is what compromising is about. Some might want it banned, other's don't, so to make it acceptable to most nations, this assembly should exclude the most severe crimes."

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:25 am**

New Min wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:“Have you ever heard of the middle ground fallacy? If one wants to destroy a vengeful punishment with little purpose, why do it halfway?”

"Whether or not it is vengeful with little purpose is an opinion, which your nation is free to exercise within its own borders, but some nations believe differently and that is what compromising is about. Some might want it banned, other's don't, so to make it acceptable to most nations, this assembly should exclude the most severe crimes."

"You can make the same argument about slavery, discrimination, abortion, so on and so forth. Compromise is only beneficial insofar as it creates a beneficial end. Permitting capital punishment creates more difficulties than solutions. Ergo, compromise is not the best solution."

Posted: **Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:18 am**

United Massachusetts wrote:"If people have the right to live, then why is capital punishment a good idea? Life without parole also prevents such people from continuing to do harm. My question then--why is the death penalty neccesary?"

Your question seems logically quite reversed. At the point when the criminal justice system of a nation has deemed that a person has committed a crime (or multiple crimes) that deem the person such a safety concern that he or she will never, ever be allowed out prison again what is the point of continuing to keep that person alive? What value to anyone does this person provide that is worth such resources?

The audacity of this body to tell taxpayers that it must keep serial rapists and murderers alive for fifty years in a box, while many states and economic systems fail to keep innocent and good families fed is detestable. No grain should be wasted on a rapist. No meat wasted on a murderer. GA #9 appears to require that we give food and drink to prisoners, so that brings me to my impasse with this proposal.

The Pharaoh

NationStates

[DEFEATED] Ban on Capital Punishment