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[DEFEATED] Ban on Capital Punishment

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

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New Min
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 159
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New Min » Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:31 am

Podrovny wrote:
New Min wrote:"Our sovereign nation exercises it's right to execute enemies of the state, like people stealing chewing gum" says the Ambassor, as the General-Secretary is busy visiting the executions museum.

Zladny: "Never knew that murder was a right."

"We don't call it murder, but fair punishment."
Last edited by New Min on Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
MINISTER OF WORLD ASSEMBLY AFFAIRS
of The People's Republic of The Communist Bloc

Central Committee member
Justice on The People's Tribunal

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Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 3993
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:33 am

New Min wrote:
Podrovny wrote:Zladny: "Never knew that murder was a right."

"We don't call it murder, but fair punishment."

“I wouldn’t quite describe execution for stealing gum as a ‘fair’ punishment. Your current system of justice is the exact reason why this sort of proposal is neeeded, while some nations might use capital punishment responsibly, a blanket ban is the only way to stop loophole-abusers. This is the problem that was found in the resolution this is trying to replace.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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New Min
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 159
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New Min » Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:55 am

Kenmoria wrote:
New Min wrote:"We don't call it murder, but fair punishment."

“I wouldn’t quite describe execution for stealing gum as a ‘fair’ punishment. Your current system of justice is the exact reason why this sort of proposal is neeeded, while some nations might use capital punishment responsibly, a blanket ban is the only way to stop loophole-abusers. This is the problem that was found in the resolution this is trying to replace.”

"Mr Ambassador, you underestimate the severity of stealing chewing gum"
MINISTER OF WORLD ASSEMBLY AFFAIRS
of The People's Republic of The Communist Bloc

Central Committee member
Justice on The People's Tribunal

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Goverwal
Envoy
 
Posts: 205
Founded: Jul 14, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Goverwal » Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:03 am

The delegate for Goverwal is strongly opposed to this resolution, as it is the delegate's opinion that it is the only fail-safe method of dealing with severe threats to national secruity such as leaders of terrorist organisations or those convicted of treason.
Last edited by Goverwal on Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Podrovny
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 16
Founded: Aug 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Podrovny » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:34 pm

New Min wrote:
Podrovny wrote:Zladny: "Never knew that murder was a right."

"We don't call it murder, but fair punishment."

"Call it whatever the hell you want. The death penalty is inhumane and unnecessary. It should be abolished worldwide."

Goverwal wrote:The delegate for Goverwal is strongly opposed to this resolution, as it is the delegate's opinion that it is the only fail-safe method of dealing with severe threats to national secruity such as leaders of terrorist organisations or those convicted of treason.

Sartova: "We should just execute all criminals, it’s fail-safe!"
Last edited by Podrovny on Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stefan Zladny, Representative of the World Assembly Delegation of the Free Socialist Workers’ Republic of Podrovny
Alina Sartova, Assistant to the Esteemed Ambassador
Vladimir Hodrov, Assistant to the Esteemed Ambassador

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New Min
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 159
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New Min » Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:26 pm

Podrovny wrote:
New Min wrote:"We don't call it murder, but fair punishment."

"Call it whatever the hell you want. The death penalty is inhumane and unnecessary. It should be abolished worldwide."

"Ahem - was it inhumane when we took the live of a person who took 50 thousand lives, including 10 thousand children?"
MINISTER OF WORLD ASSEMBLY AFFAIRS
of The People's Republic of The Communist Bloc

Central Committee member
Justice on The People's Tribunal

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Massachusetts United
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 4
Founded: May 20, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Massachusetts United » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:27 pm

I am considering making a quick couple words to restore clause 2 of C&P:

2. Forbids member nations from issuing criminal sentences disproportionate to the crime committed;

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Auze
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1373
Founded: Oct 31, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Auze » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:12 pm

IC against, OC mixed.
I suggest changing "employing" to "using" to decrease this horribly high character count.
Tarsonis wrote: You broke the chain Auze, shame on you.
If you are reading this...
Hello, I'm an LDS kid from South Carolina!
I'm a straight, cis male with socialist leanings.
Best thread title ever.
We can win World War Glitter!

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Silverfalls
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: Aug 05, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Silverfalls » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:46 pm

"This is a blatant abuse of powers, banning something that should be left to the judgement of individual nations! Capital Punishment should be left to the nations, NOT the WA."

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Cosmopolitan borovan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1033
Founded: Jan 18, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Cosmopolitan borovan » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:56 pm

Against

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Oppermenia
Minister
 
Posts: 2142
Founded: Apr 03, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Oppermenia » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:59 pm

Oppermenia is opposed to such a resolution. The death penalty keeps crime low, and thus Oppermenian citizens safe. Oppermenia needs the death penalty in order to ensure the safety of its citizens.
The criminals that attempt murder and rape lose the right to live the moment they threaten the life or sanctity thereof of another living individual.
We are a leftist nation. But we do understand the need for the death penalty.
And, Oppermenia's position aside, there are many WA nations that have the death penalty. Probably a lot. So, if this is outright banned, then what happens to them? Are they kicked from the WA? Is it repealed? Maybe if it were a small number of WA nations, but we're talking about probably a significant chunk of the WA, here.
If you want to ban it, then don't do it right away. Do it slowly over time, and give WA nations time to adjust to the new change.
"Stick to the pack, and the pack will provide."
We are a leftist nation that believes in the "we" over "I". That's why we are fond of wolves, because the Alpha looks after the pack.
Stick with us, and give us loyalty, and we'll do things that benefit you, and we'll stick with you.
If you cross us, however, then as a pack, we will hunt you.
Don't underestimate us.
To learn more about the nation, click here: https://www.nationstates.net/nation=oppermenia/detail=factbook
To learn about our government structure, click here:
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=oppermenia/detail=factbook/id=1057437

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2173
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:40 pm

Amended. Enjoy.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Ave Crux, spes unica nostra!"
"Hail to the Cross, our only hope!"


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Auze
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1373
Founded: Oct 31, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Auze » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:33 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:Amended. Enjoy.

CHANGE IT BACK >:( . preserve the current for posterity, however
Tarsonis wrote: You broke the chain Auze, shame on you.
If you are reading this...
Hello, I'm an LDS kid from South Carolina!
I'm a straight, cis male with socialist leanings.
Best thread title ever.
We can win World War Glitter!

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Ramelia
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: Apr 06, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Ramelia » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:25 pm

"We are appalled by the unserious nature of what seems to be more than half of the proposal, which has significantly more place in a middle school's student government than the World Assembly, especially with relation to such an important issue as ridding the world of the abomination that is capital punishment.

"Were the bill to remove its utterly ridiculous portions related to length (which would make it much shorter), we would be in complete support. The one suggestion I have, out of fear that the proposal would fail otherwise, is that an exemption be created for crimes against humanity. While Ramelia unyieldingly opposes capital punishment in any cases whatsoever, I feel many national governments will not support the bill unless such a provision exists. If crimes against humanity need be defined and (unless my memory fails me and they are defined by an existing Resolution) they really ought be, so be it, the bill has already been lengthened to somewhat reasonable."

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2173
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:28 pm

Ramelia wrote:"We are appalled by the unserious nature of what seems to be more than half of the proposal, which has significantly more place in a middle school's student government than the World Assembly, especially with relation to such an important issue as ridding the world of the abomination that is capital punishment.

"Were the bill to remove its utterly ridiculous portions related to length (which would make it much shorter), we would be in complete support. The one suggestion I have, out of fear that the proposal would fail otherwise, is that an exemption be created for crimes against humanity. While Ramelia unyieldingly opposes capital punishment in any cases whatsoever, I feel many national governments will not support the bill unless such a provision exists. If crimes against humanity need be defined and (unless my memory fails me and they are defined by an existing Resolution) they really ought be, so be it, the bill has already been lengthened to somewhat reasonable."

Lighten up. It does what it's supposed to do. People wanted me to make this longer. This is my way of responding to them.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Ave Crux, spes unica nostra!"
"Hail to the Cross, our only hope!"


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Auze
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1373
Founded: Oct 31, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Auze » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:36 pm

Ramelia wrote:"We are appalled by the unserious nature of what seems to be more than half of the proposal, which has significantly more place in a middle school's student government than the World Assembly, especially with relation to such an important issue as ridding the world of the abomination that is capital punishment.

"Were the bill to remove its utterly ridiculous portions related to length (which would make it much shorter), we would be in complete support. The one suggestion I have, out of fear that the proposal would fail otherwise, is that an exemption be created for crimes against humanity. While Ramelia unyieldingly opposes capital punishment in any cases whatsoever, I feel many national governments will not support the bill unless such a provision exists. If crimes against humanity need be defined and (unless my memory fails me and they are defined by an existing Resolution) they really ought be, so be it, the bill has already been lengthened to somewhat reasonable."

This is what the bill looked like pre-revision (185 character version)
Ban on Capital Punishment
Category: Human Rights | Strength: Significant | Proposed by: United Massachusetts
Having already presented its rationale in GA 4XX, The General Assembly bans member nations from employing a penalty of death for any crime, excluding war crimes or crimes against humanity.

That is a longer version, the only reason I didn't post the penultimate revision (135 characters) was that I can't find a copy of it. UM, you might want to post previous versions in spoilers.
Tarsonis wrote: You broke the chain Auze, shame on you.
If you are reading this...
Hello, I'm an LDS kid from South Carolina!
I'm a straight, cis male with socialist leanings.
Best thread title ever.
We can win World War Glitter!

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Xanthal
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1026
Founded: Apr 16, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Xanthal » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:25 pm

The Xanthalian legal system does not subscribe to the theory of punitive justice. The death "penalty" is employed as a practical measure, not a retributive one. For those who cannot be reformed, and for whom an accommodating nation cannot be found which the convicted considers agreeable, merely caging the individual for the remainder of his natural life is a costly and inhumane alternative to execution.
Last edited by Xanthal on Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
General Assembly IC
Security Council OOC

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The Republic of Squirrels
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: May 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Republic of Squirrels » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:27 pm

The Delegate for the The Republic Of Squirrels will give their support for the Bill, but does request revising of the amendment for allowing the death penalty to be sentenced for individuals committing crimes against humanity, e.g. Genocide.


It is expensive to hold criminals for life, if we know they are too dangerous to be released, and can not be reformed.

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Kranostav
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 198
Founded: Apr 01, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kranostav » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:47 pm

"Prohibits member nations from extraditing individuals to a foreign nation where they are likely to face a penalty of death,"

I would have liked to see this reworded to say "face execution or capital punishment inline with prohibited punishment above"
The North Pacific Minister of World Assembly Affairs
The Constitutional Monarchy of Kranostav
Author of GAR #423

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2173
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:52 pm

Kranostav wrote:"Prohibits member nations from extraditing individuals to a foreign nation where they are likely to face a penalty of death,"

I would have liked to see this reworded to say "face execution or capital punishment inline with prohibited punishment above"

Will do.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Ave Crux, spes unica nostra!"
"Hail to the Cross, our only hope!"


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Bananaistan
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 2123
Founded: Apr 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bananaistan » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:52 am

OOC: Lose the jokes. It won't go down well at vote.

Also if you were still interested in brevity, section 3 is unnecessary. GAR#147 would prevent this anyway. No harm to restate it IMO but it's not absolutely necessary.
Last edited by Bananaistan on Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Delegation of the People's Republic of Bananaistan to the World Assembly
Head of delegation and the Permanent Representative: Comrade Ambassador Theodorus "Ted" Hornwood
General Assistant and Head of Security: Comrade Watchman Brian of Tarth
There was the Pope and John F. Kennedy and Jack Charlton and the three of them were staring me in the face.

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Illemenia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 21
Founded: Mar 08, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Illemenia » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:29 pm

I am in full support of the abolishment of capital punishment. -President Gold, Presidential debate, September 10, 2009.

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Silverfalls
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: Aug 05, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Silverfalls » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:13 pm

No support. The WA should not decide on this. This is, quite frankly, one nation trying to force their morals on others, which is wrong.

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East Gondwana
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 400
Founded: Jun 24, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby East Gondwana » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:22 pm

"This resolution must replicate the other provisions on crime and punishment in the resolution that this intends to replace. GA#375 does not exclusively exist to permit the desth penalty, and its other provisions MUST be included in this replacement."
PRO: LGBTI rights and liberation, social democracy, libertarian socialism, trade unions, Uluru Statement From The Heart, democracy, human rights, feminism, climate action and environmentalism, BLM/SOSBA, two-state solution

ANTI: capitalism, fascism, authoritarianism, communism (all kinds), Australian immigration policy, cops at pride, corporate 'activism', racism, fossil fuels industry, state violence

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Snowman
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 134
Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Snowman » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:25 am

Support. Yelah Rekkab can fully control the prisons & rehabilitation centers. If a nation can not feel that their prisons are good at keeping criminals in, I would not want to live there. Yelah also fully believes in peace & wants to help people reform always. This is a fundamental belief of Snowman.

~Snowman Secretary

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